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C250 owners-forgive me

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Sailor Vic
1st Mate

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56 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 16:34:36

Folks, I'm here because I own a (year 2002) 250WK and at our 250 forum someone wrote to take a look at what you all wrote about the 250.

I will share my (limited) experience.

When shopping, I could afford a used 25 or a new 250.

Price was not important and so my judgement is only based on quality and design.

I choose the 250 over the 25.

I am fairly new to sailing and last year a friend of mine, who is the most experienced sailor that I know, and whom I highly respect, recommended that I purchase a Catalina 25.

He said that for what I wanted (cruising on our lake), the Catalina was "perfect."

I started looking at Catalina at that time.

I then reflected on my life and whether I wanted to maintain a boat much.

I didn't.

I just want to sail and spend as little time as possible "fixing" and "puttering."

Everyone is different!

Everyone has different needs.

My friend owns an Aquarius 23 which he just finished sailing for 6 weeks in the San Juan Islands and Canada.

He is also fixing up a Cheoy Lee 36 which is for the oceans.

He has sailed for 9 months in Fiji, as well as having sailed in Venezuela, etc etc.

My point is that he is experienced.

When I bought the 250 wing keel he laughed as he realized that I didn't want to do any annual taking care of teak, etc etc.

He had never sailed in a 250.

I took him out and he WAS impressed and said that he liked the 250 a lot.

He said that the only 25 foot boat that likes better (and he is going to buy at $100,000) is the http://www.pacificseacraft.com/cgi-bin/sitenav.php?2401 Dana 24 by Pacific Seacraft.

Look, if you love your 25 that's great.

If I love my 250 that's great.

If you believe that your 25 or 250 is the "best" for YOU, what else is there in life?

If you KNOW that you are right, what does it matter what others think or say?

I LOVE my 250.

Quality of the 250?

I drilled a 4" diameter hole in my deck and was very impressed with how well the 250's fiberglass is constructed.

It's silly in my mind to compare the McGregor to the Catalina 250.

That's night and day.

Certainly the leakproof windows look "cheap" but they don't leak.

My experienced buddy has been to both factories and praises the Catalina and thinks the 25' McGregor is just plain "junk."

Design of the cabin?

That's a personal choice, but I love the layout of my 250.

Could there be "improvements?"

Of course, and I can make a list a mile long, as I can also make a long list for the 25.

Life is nothing but compromises and so it is with the 25 and the 250.

Bottom line?

Don't put down the 250.

Appreciate it for what it is.

It's a nice boat, at a fair price and it handles well.

It's certainly not perfect but my friend's "ideal" boat that he is about the buy....the 24 footer for $100,000 is far from perfect also.

Happy sailing and I hope you love your 25 and feel no need to put others "down,"

:-)

Vic

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 16:45:04

Loren, I personally do not take offense about anything that is said about 250's, this topic has come up many times in the past and I really can't imagine anything new being said. I just figured I would join in in the banter as we 250 owners were invited/challenged <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Those C25 guys are ganging up on us C25...uh, I mean...us C250 owners and besmirching our boats over on their forum. I can't even repeat some of the things they are saying about you and your boats..uh, I mean..what their saying about us and our boats.

We fellow C25...uh...C250 owners need your help! Click on the link below and fight the good fight! Good Luck and Godspeed
http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2015

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
1980...uh...I mean... 2000 C250 WB
Water Ballast Rules!!!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> by Don to visit the 25 forum. I must admit I am on the hard <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle> (wah) and bored otherwise sticks and stones.

BTW I bought the 250 b/c

1 Trailerability It took me 15 min. to get it out of the water last tuesday (the mast and rigging should go so easy).

2 No exterior teak

3 Pass through transom (safety and convenience)

4 I wanted a newer boat (if I wanted an older quality boat I would have bought a 27' Pearson or Cape Dory)

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 18:57:35

"...I did not expect such a response to this topic....Obviously, some of my comments seem offensive to C250 owners..." - Loren

Loren,

Hey, were just having some fun <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> and most should know that we are only jesting with each other. Topics, such as the 25 vs 250, Swing vs Fin, Wing vs Water Ballast, Tall vs Standard, Dinette Vs Traditional, Cetol vs Varnish, Marine Head vs PortaPotty, Ablative vs Hard,...etc(the list goes on and on) are cussed and discussed all the time. This tongue-in-cheek debate usually brings out a perspective that one might not ordinarily see so in a way these topics are both fun and informative(Mostly Fun <img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>)!

(Pssst...Loren...Pssst...Over here!...Just between you and me <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>, if you want to be on the correct side of all these hot topics choose the following: C25, Fin, Standard Rig, Dinette, Mercury 2-Stroke, Fixed Head, Cetol, VC-17, Roller Furling, Alcohol Stove, Bimini, ST1000 Autopilot, and Tiller.)

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
1980 C25 #2151
Fin, Standard Rig, Dinette, Mercury 2-Stroke, Fixed Head, Cetol, VC-17, Roller Furling, Alcohol Stove, Bimini, ST1000 Autopilot, and Tiller

Edited by - dlucier on 10/18/2002 19:51:23

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 19:45:55

Wow! 28 posts and 328 reads for this topic in just 24 hours! That has to be some sort of forum record! Good show! <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Don. . . you're a riot! "Love ya', man!" <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> You're welcome to come visit the dark side (250 forum) anytime!

Loren. . . Although in your most recent post you say you've never been to "our" forum "and certainly will not now", you, friend, are also welcomed! I guess that's what I am confused about. A laundry list of observations is one thing. Referring to the 250 as "this thing" and the implication (at least the way I read it) that 250 owners are interested in the pricey newness and 'flash', no matter how "dumb" the interior layout, strikes me as something else. Not visiting the 250 section seems like a further snub. Hopefully, I'm just being too cynical. <img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle> Friends? <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

To the entire forum gang. . . hope you all have a splendid weekend sailing your boats of whatever make and model! <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - bren737 on 10/18/2002 20:59:12

Edited by - bren737 on 10/18/2002 21:03:01

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 19:51:49

Hi Gang,

And I thought I lit a fire with my insurance comments.

Whew!!

I know what to do. This will bring unity back to our gang. Let's start a "Why Hunters Suck" thread.

Paul
Stinkboater with a sailors heart

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 20:31:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>After looking at a few C25s and 27s, my wife showed NO interest. After seeing a new 250 at a dealer, she was very interested.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

While I personally prefer the C25, the above could seal the deal the other way for me.

What do C250's cost?
What do used C250's cost?
I think most C25's (all used) are in the $5,000 - $10,000 range.

By the way -- vanilla ice cream rules; chocolate sucks!

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 20:51:10

25' Catalina 250 2002 US$ 43,584 S N SD FG Seward, AK
25' Catalina 250 2002 US$ 32,940 S N SG FG St. Louis, MO
25' Catalina 250 2002 US$ 27,985 S N SG FG St. Louis, MO
25' Catalina 250 2003 US$ 27,101 S N SD FG Charleston , SC
25' Catalina 250 2002 US$ 22,500 S N SG FG Falmouth , ME
25' Catalina 250 2002 US$ 18,900 S N SD FG CA, United States

I found these on Yachtworld. That one from Alaska must have a gold plated keel!

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
1980 C25 #2151
SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 10/18/2002 20:52:27

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 21:26:22

Richard,

I was vveerrryyyy suspicious! After 20 years together, I suspected that there was an alterior motive to Diane's insistance that I spend almost double what I had been planning for a used boat on a brand new one instead. Especially since she has always been more of a 'boat rider' rather than an active participant.

Lo' and behold, she is getting ever more into it. She insisted I teach her how to back the trailor down the ramp, now knows a jib sheet from the main and even prompts the "let's go to the lake tomorrow" that I usually evoke. God love her, she's even talking about going back for another BVI charter (the first one she spent on the verge of sea-sickness).<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

So far, it's only 'cost me' a new couch for the living room!

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 21:40:21

"Don...You're welcome to come visit the dark side (250 forum) anytime!" - Bren Peterson

Why thank you for the compliment and the invite.

(Uhmmm...one thing...Uhmmm, if I do come visit you guys at the 250 Forum, you and your C250 buddies aren't going to like...you know...like...rough me up or anything like that...are..are...you?) <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
1980 C25 #2151
SR/FK

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 21:48:14

Don,

NO WAY, brother! That would mean setting the beer down!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 21:57:33

Good Point! I'll be there. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
1980 C25 #2151
SR/FK

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2002 : 23:18:47

The greatest thing about this forum is that it doesn't matter which style 25 you have, we always learn so much about upgrades, sailing, various locations, cruising and racing experiences. Everyday I check each and every post because there is something to learn. I think it's great guessing ages, married or not, occupations and seeing how correct I was when finally someone gives a clue out. I'm also overwhelmed by the campassion and kindness shown to a member when he loses a job, forced to sell a beloved boat, is forced to move, loses a family member in death. All these things have been told on this forum, and it is absolutely amazing the outpouring of sincere feeling and compassion.
I've personally e-mailed many of you to ask a question, that has helped me become a better sailor, to do a difficult repair, and share this passion that we seem to have developed. That's why we become inflamed and defensive about our boats. We have poured hours of love , energy, and creativity into these fiberglass money pits, and are so connected emtionally with them, that we'll fight as if they were our only child. So although most of us have never met, we share a bond, that gives us a unity....a unity against the McGregor owners, humter owners, and makes us Catalina people. Wow...."I have a dream"
Sorry didn't mean to soliloquize to that extent. never mind!!!!!!

Gclarke C250wb left coast

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 06:07:42

Here is a pic of plastic beating all that Teak in the 1st race of the Masters Regata at Canyon Lake. The pic was taken from the committe boat and you can just see the pin at the end of the finish line as my 250WK "Moon Chaser" #385 (competeing in the Cruisers Fleet)crosses first ...even ahead of the and Derek Crawfords Cat 25 "This Side Up" (Non- Spin fleet which started 5 minutes earlier) the 4th boat in the pic. The other 2nd boat is an Irwin 31', the third boat is an Erickson 30+'. The winds were very light and while there is nothing like beating your Mentor (Derek), He did come in second overall in his Fleet. :

Steve

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2ce38b3127cce91693ba9c0c50000001410" border=0>

Edited by - ssteakley on 10/19/2002 06:13:37

Edited by - ssteakley on 10/19/2002 06:16:00

Edited by - ssteakley on 10/21/2002 19:38:03

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 06:26:10

Oh,....
and one more thing,
the reason we 250 owners check out the 25 side is that we all have much NEWER boats and we need to seek out the experience of the SEASONED sailors and boats to help us find solutions to similiar problems, or how to avoid those problems<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
It helps us avoid experiences that might upset the Admiral!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Steve

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 11:04:44

In defense of us C25-ers I must add that the Non-Spin Fleet were sitting windless & immobile halfway up the last leg to the finish line. The Cruiser Fleet came around the leeward mark and caught a wind line which brought them past us and on to finish - their complete "blanket" of us was the final insult...<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek on "This Side Up"

Edited by - on

Cat25wannab
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 14:40:26

Got a kick out of some of the comments <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Loren said she was surprised at the response her post drew... hehe... kinda like when South Carolina succeeded from the Union and wondered who caused all the uproar. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Then there was the Don L. posting in the C250 forum. Too Funny! For Halloween you should be a witch cos you sure can stir up the cauldrun! Ha! That was great. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Don P. My comment about "no place for a newbie" was a silly reference about the printed fisticuffs that was going on.<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> I agree that this is a great learning forum for future Catalina owners as well as those that already own.

And for the record, if money is no object<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> ... my choice is a Little Harbor 42!

Dennis

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 15:14:34

Bren:

Sounds like you got a keep'r.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

bdehuff
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 17:31:49

I've been a Catalina owner for 3 years and have noticed that each time someone starts the "my boat is better than yours" stuff it's in the C25 forum. Why is that?

A few years ago someone on the C25 site( I can't remember who now, and it doesn't matter) was denegrating the C250 design. He claimed the C250 was not safe for sailing anywhere but in a bathtub. He boasted that he could feel safe sailing his C25 around the world. He also expressed lots of other opinions why the C25 was better than the C250.

Hard to tell weather we're dealing with illusions of grandure, or feelings of inadequacy with all this C250 slamming by some C25 owners.

Hay, there's ACTUALLY a McGregor owner at my marina who also likes to look down his nose at other people's boats. I'm going to suggest he should check out this forum. He would feel right at home.

I like the C25. There's lots of them at my lake. There are nearly as many C250's. Both are real popular boats. Everyone enjoy's their boat for their own reasons. Somehow (I don't know how - judging from this thread if must be a miracle) we all manage to sail happily together without ANY shots across the bow.

Maybe it's the sailors and not the boats.

Blair Dehuff
Tahoe Dream
C250 WK

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 18:23:54

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> So far, it's only 'cost me' a new couch for the living room!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> Wow Bren my 250 cost me a baby grand (hence Sea Major) and there is talk of a room makeover.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 19:04:19

"Don L...For Halloween you should be a witch cos you sure can stir up the cauldrun! Ha!" - Dennis

Well, I was thinking of being a <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle> !

Don Luci(f)er <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>, 'North Star'
1980 C25 #2151
SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 10/19/2002 19:06:45

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2002 : 23:47:51

Richard,

You bet she's a keep'r. . . I consider myself a very lucky man!<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Ray,

Shhhhhhhhh. . . quiet. Don't give her any ideas! Sometimes she peaks over my shoulder when I'm on the forum to make sure I'm not checking out any more of Steve's bikini photos!<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2002 : 01:19:44

OK, so when do we get to put the Cetol on the MacGregor?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2002 : 09:16:42

I have been biting my tongue throughout this thread to keep from saying anything, but agree completely with Blair’s comments. How would you feel if you bought a sailboat, and then had to listen to all the other sailors tell you how inadequate your boat is? Yeah, I know, you guys are just joking, but why do most of the jokes seem to be at the expense of the C-250 owners, and why are they the ones who have to try to be gracious about it? A couple of our members have plainly expressed their annoyance and nobody seems to get it.

The fact is that C-25s and C-250s are different. They were each designed in different eras (separated by about 25 years), to meet the different market demands of each of those eras. People had different desires and priorities 25 years ago than they have now, and Catalina designed each of the two boats to be marketable in their own era. As wonderful as the C-25 is, some of the technology used in the design and construction of the C-25 is now obsolete. The C-250 incorporates modern design and construction techniques.

Catalina obviously believed that there was a greater demand in the contemporary market for a sailboat that had the qualities of the C-250, than for one that had the qualities of the C-25. Otherwise, they would still be building C-25s, and they wouldn’t have gone to all the trouble of designing and tooling up to build C-250s. The people at Catalina aren’t stupid. They’ve proven that they know how to design and sell boats. Derek helped Steve Steakley race his C-250 to a victory, and now Steve has won in his own right. C-250s are racing and winning at my lake, too. The C-250 is a very good boat, and Catalina is apparently selling a lot of them.

I love my C-25, and our C-250 brothers and sisters feel the same way about their boats. I have a friend who built his sailboat out of plywood, and made the sails out of plastic dropcloths, and for years he sailed it every Wednesday evening and every weekend throughout the summer, and I wouldn’t have dreamed of denigrating his boat. Hunters and McGregors and other boats aren’t my favorites either, but I don’t feel a compulsion to denigrate them. Why would you want to risk insulting a fellow sailor?

Sometimes we have to compare differences in the two boats in order to discuss an issue, and that’s o.k. , but we should give some thought to how our comments might be perceived by our friends. Most of us can take good-natured ribbing, but when the same ribbing constantly goes in the same direction and is repeated again and again and again, it can become too much. When that happens, putting a smiley face on it doesn’t make it any better.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2002 : 11:51:20

A very good summation, Steve. Now can we let this topic R.I.P?
Derek

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2002 : 12:13:24

Amen, brothers !

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