Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.
Last Saturday I went out to have a nice single handed sail on my 87 standardrig wing keel and watch this years trans Tahoe race. I always check the forecast before going and winds were predicted to be 10-20 with a little light cloud cover developing in the afternoon. This is my second summer with her so we are still gitting acuanted.
I am one the north shore and proceeded to sail towards the south shore. I enjoyed the first half of the race, the winds were so nice and steady i just kept on going and ended up at the south end of the lake. I think the wind was 15-20 and I had reefed my main.
As some times happens the wind totally died out. This is kind of eerie and I have learned that when it does come back its usually gusty and stronger. The wind did come back and was definitely stronger, by now it was late afternoon 3 or so. I decided to head back and the Trans fleet lead boats were on a spinnaker run from the west shore to the east shore.
I had a front row seat but did not get to enjoy it for long. The wind kept building and swells began to develop. I proceeded to roll up my Genoa half way or so and was not to concerned. I was broad reaching and head straight back up the lack to my buoy.
Problem is it just kept getting stronger half way back or so even with dead mans point it was getting to be a bit of a struggle. I rolled up what was left of my Genoa and tried to sail on just my main. That did not work so well as the boat just didn't handle very well and really reduced my speed. So I rolled out just a couple of wraps and she handled better.
By now there was an obvious cloud bank coming over the north end of the lake. The swells increased and I was starting to get the feeling that I was in getting out of my league. I figured an hour or two to get back and the wind just kept getting stronger. The swells did the same and unfortunately I was taking them on the beam for the most part do to the fact that I was headed north back to my buoy.
I guess the winds were probably hitting 25-30 at this point and I was really beginning to feel nervous, I was frequently getting rolled to the rails which I have never experienced before as a matter of fact I generally try not to exceed 20 degrees. So I rolled up the Genoa at about the 3/4 way pretty much even with the tb4 ( if you look up remote.ucdavis.edu/tahoe_location.asp you will see the data buoy and the recorded winds) and just tried to hunker down. I only have a single reef for the main By this time with so much water being blown over the bow I felt like I was in the ocean and was getting a little cold. Going to the cabin for a jacket was not an option. I occasionally looked for the fleet racing but except for two big boats they pretty much seemed to have disappeared. I plowed along like this broad reaching with the main pretty much as dowered most of the time as possible in gusts I let her out until she pretty much was plastered against the shrouds. I kept the main sheet in hand at all times.
And then it started to rain, really pelting but with all the spray coming over the bow it really didn't matter. And the wind just kept getting stronger, at this point it must have been getting into the upper 30's and I was getting very concerned. I had my pfd on since the start and was tether with a floating submersible radio so I figured i would probably do OK if worst came to worst, but the thought of losing Grace Note was hard to describe. I was getting close enough to shore that I could recognize the shore buoys near mine. I kept telling myself she can take it just a little longer. And then it was like mother nature heard me and just poured it on. Every thing increased and I thought your losing it should I call the coast guard they had just went by a bit ago lights on going to help someone I can only assume. I decided my only chance was to get the main down and motor in, for some strange reason I wanted to hold off as long as possible and sail in. Probably not to smart.
The new Honda 9.9 XL shaft started right up thank god. I tried to release the halyard ( led to cockpit) but could not keep pointed into the wind and the main glued itself to the shrouds. So i went for full throttle and set the auto and jumped on the cabin top and yanked it down and managed to get one sail tie on before the bow fell off and I had to disengage the auto pilot. Grace was pretty much out of control it seemed to me just rolling but I reset the auto and got back on the main and secured it.
I turned for Carnelian bay and at full throttle with the motor all the way up head for shore. As soon as I cleared the point things moderated.
I don't consider myself that experienced and I really like my c 25, but after that experience I luv this boat and think she saved my bacon. Below is the race recap from the tahoe yact club.
I wonder what I could have done better?
46th Annual Trans Tahoe 2009 as of July 11, 2009
First to Cross the Line: Ross Stein "Origami" Corsair 24 Overall 1st Place: John Corda "Wicked" Farr 36 Cruising Class 1st Place: Randy Chitwood "Charisma" Catalina 30
A nice breeze from the southwest around 10-15 knots rolled in just in time for a 1200 start allowing the race committee to send all divisions on the long 35nm course from Start to Eagle Rock to TB3 to Sugar Pine to Dead Man's Point to Sugar Pine to Finish at Tahoe City. However the weather had something else in mind as a serious squall come unannounced out of Desolation and Rubicon to pound the fleet with gusts over 40 knots and 4-5ft seas. Of the 37 boats to start only 9 were able to finish the full course. Thankfully no one was seriously injured and many ended in Nevada near Incline Village where they were able to seek berth. This was a storm like no other said many long time tahoe sailors and allowed for some great sailing tales to be told. The last finisher was in shortly after 2000 and all boats were accounted for.
The Cruising Class went on a 24nm course from Tahoe City to Eagle Rock to Dead Man's Point to finish at Tahoe City and 3 of 4 boats finished.
Thanks to the Mullen Family for all their work as Chairmen and all the sailors for making this one of the most talked about sailing events in TYC's 85 year history. See you next year!
John, Thanks for the story. I, too, am getting acquainted with my own C250, so I look forward to reading the comments from our more experienced forum members. What you did right was that you kept your head. Sounds like rigging your second reef point would be a good idea. Glad you and Grace Note made it!
John, you kept your head and handeled a bad situation well. My answer to your question of what you could have done better is that you should have tried to anticipate the wind becomming stronger and taken measures before things got out of hand. There is an old sailors motto that the right time to reef (or drop sail) is when you first begin to think about it. When you are single handing it is always best to sail with a little less sail than the current conditions call for. Also,for those times when you get caught with too much canvas up, learning and practicing how to, properly, "heave-to" can give you time to think and even calm the boat down enough for you to go forward and drop sail. that's all the advice I have, I'm sure other's will contribute more ideas.
I'm sure no matter how well you keep an eye on the weather this can happen but in the summer time afternoon heat can generate some wicked storms. I'll bet the weather you encountered is pretty typical for this time of year in your area. My advise would be to research the weather conditions, understand the typical for your area and get internet on your phone so you can keep an eye on the radar. And then when all that doesn't help, drop those sails early!!
edit; You did a good job with what you had though! and learned first hand the beating your boat can endure, which adds to confidence and ability.
Another "congratulations"! You have one of the "great sailing stories to be told" from that day! And you learned a lot about how much a C-25 can take--generally more than the people aboard can!
What would I have done? I had a somewhat similar incident on our first real sail on Passage, delivering her 90 miles down Long Island Sound to her new home. A huge squall line was approaching... NOAA was saying 50+ winds... All went calm... We started the engine, dropped the main, and with the roller-furling genny about 1/3 furled, turned right and headed a couple of miles to the CT River and into a protected cove, which could have been a mistake if all hell had broken loose before we could pick up a mooring. We got lucky... But with the main down, we could use the genny for speed and steadiness, and roll it up whenever and however much we needed, with no acrobatics.
As part of getting to know your boat, I'll suggest trying the genny alone on one of your heavier-wind days, to see how she handles and performs. With roller furling, that's an important option when you're single-handing, as discussed in many threads, with me as the constant cheerleader. (I would never recommend this to hank-on single-handers for heavy-air.) The performance and handling are distinctly better than main-alone, and the heel is much less because so much of the sail is down so much lower. And then you can "pull the string"!
I <i>might</i> also have suggested (??) heading up toward the windward shore to ease size and rolling effect of the waves. But I don't have a clear enough picture.
I agree that sailing under genny alone is much nicer than under main alone, however, when single-handling in a raging storm, if things get fouled, its a lot longer of a walk to the forestay to sort out a mess than it is to the mast, and when you get there, there is less working space, and generally more going on.
With crew I agree, foresail along. Single handling in big weather, I like the security of main alone.
I agree with the idea of heading to th ewindward shore, but depending on conditions.
I have learned that with all sheets released, I can bring down Iris' sails in any conditions. Yes the sails take a beating, but sometimes thats better than fighting the storm. I have learned that letting out the main just enough, and completely releasing the jib will cause her to vane nose to wind. Then I can sheet in the main, and she will act as a giant weathervane as long as the tiller isn't held on centre. Maybe someone else with better prose can explain this better.
Often I will release everything, run forward and bring down the Genny and lash it to the bow using the cleats for the bowlines, then run back and sheet in the mainso the boat vanes into the wind.
once the boat is nose to wind I can easily put a reef or two in the main or drop it altogether and start the OB.
I agree it sounds like you handled a bad situation well. You indicated that when the wind dies it usually comes back stronger. I bet that in the future when that happens you will use the opportunity in the lull to reduce sail and get ready for the returning wind. For your sailing area, sounds like a second reef in the main is a good idea. Having a furler appeared to help also. I'm hank-on. We rarely get winds that strong here, occasionally in the 20's. shortly after we bought the boat, we got caught out once with full main and 110 jib in winds around 18, but with some crew to help. Put the rail in once and rounded up once. Having a tall rig, that was a bit dicey; should have reefed the main. Mostly, we don't sail on those days, except for racing.
Lots of good advice here! You did a great job in bringing the boat in and in not panicking in extraordinarily severe conditions. A boat and skipper are a team. The boat has a lot of inherent ability to withstand the conditions, but it depends on the skipper to either trim or furl it's sails to cope with the conditions. The boat can't do that for you. That's why it's so important to reduce or lower the sails early. So long as the boat isn't overpowered by it's sails or overwhelmed by the conditions, it can stand up to the wind and waves. Also, by reducing sails early, you avoid having to go to the dangerous, rolling, wet foredeck in the worst of conditions. When the conditions are the worst, you can stay in the cockpit, where it's the safest. Good job! It's comforting for you to know that both you and the boat were up to the task!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Prospector</i> <br />I have learned that letting out the main just enough, and completely releasing the jib will cause her to vane nose to wind. Then I can sheet in the main, and she will act as a giant weathervane as long as the tiller isn't held on centre. Maybe someone else with better prose can explain this better. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You explained it great. I'm going out today, and I'll be trying that out.
As mentioned earlier, "heaving to" can be your saving grace. There are many stories of sailors in small boats heaving to in gales and riding it out safely and securely while others under bare poles are getting bashed and knocked down. On a c-25 it is realitively simple to learn and it is a great tactic to give yourself a break under normal conditions as well. While hoave to, you can go below, fix lunch, go to the bathroom, all in comfort and security. It is a longtime practice of sailors but becoming a lost art in todays sailing world with the abundence of sailors and boats - many without any training or experience. If you go to Utube and do a search for heave to you will find many great instructional videos that show you how. My c-25 heave's to beautifully.
DaveB wrote; <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> (I would never recommend this to hank-on single-handers for heavy-air.) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I just bring her in to the wind, crank the jib sheet in real tight and drop that sucker (my hank on 110)! It won't give you to much problem, you <i>might</i> have to bungy the middle of the sail but that only takes a second. I'll admit I've never had to do this in wind above 15 to 18 knots, so far I've been able to get the sails down before the stuff hits the fan but I'm sure it'd work just fine.
Be sure to enter that race next year! Cruising class sounds like a good class to enter the C25 in. You now know that you could have been one of the 9 finishers! Hearing that you didn't want to motor tells me you have what it takes.
By the way, 20 degrees of heel is just where it is getting good. 15 to 20 is where the boat is going best. I don't get worried until the heel is over 45 - you'll round up very soon after 45 degrees.
If this kind of storm happens often, a 2nd reef in the main would be a very good thing to have added. I think with a 2nd reefed main and a 60% storm jib you could have sailed her in.
While no one goes out intentionally in 40 knots of wind in a C25 if you get caught out now you know the boat can handle it - if you are prepared.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Blue Nose</i> <br /> (Heaving to) On a c-25 it is relatively simple to learn and it is a great tactic to give yourself a break under normal conditions as well. ...... My c-25 heave's to beautifully. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Since you have experience doing this on your C-25, can you share how you set your sails and tiller for heaving to?
To heave to in a C25, just tack without touching the sheets. The jib will end up backwinded, while the main is still full. Put the tiller all the way down, which means, as if it is trying to turn the bow of the boat back upwind (through the backed jib - ain't going to happen). You can just tie the tiller down there.
Your boat will drift downwind about beam onto the wind and seas. The motiion will be very comfortable.
Lots of good advice in this thread, and you kept your cool and brought yourself and your boat in safely. Good for you, and there's no teacher like experience.
I'd emphasize what was said by someone earlier, you had foreknowledge that the winds frequently come back stronger after a lull on your lake. That would have been the time to tuck in your reefs and get yourself ready for the coming blow.
Learning to heave to is an important skill to have, and it's surprisingly easy to do once you know how, you just want to be sure you're not on a lee shore while you're hove to.
The first time we got caught in similar weather (although not as fierce as yours), we had our reefing rigged wrong, didn't have our second reef rigged at all and no storm jib (we're hank on, and it was our third time on the boat). After that experience, we correctly rigged the first reef, added the second reef rigging, and bought a 70% jib. It's like having insurance, we've never used any of that stuff since that experience, but we've got it now and know how to use it.
Prospector, you just gave ma an idea. Thanks. don't know why I haven't thought of this before. I share a double slip with another boat which is on my port side. Usually, when I go sailing, I leave the dock lines at the dock, and it is always a reach to reattach the bow dock line on my port side. We put the loop through the center hole of the cleat and bring the loop around each horn. I'm now going to uncleat that line at the dock and leave it cleated on the boat. Then I can also use it to lash down the genoa when we anchor to swim or it will be ready for rafting up with another boat(s).
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dmpilc</i> <br />Prospector, you just gave ma an idea. Thanks. don't know why I haven't thought of this before. I share a double slip with another boat which is on my port side. Usually, when I go sailing, I leave the dock lines at the dock, and it is always a reach to reattach the bow dock line on my port side. We put the loop through the center hole of the cleat and bring the loop around each horn. I'm now going to uncleat that line at the dock and leave it cleated on the boat. Then I can also use it to lash down the genoa when we anchor to swim or it will be ready for rafting up with another boat(s). <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
... And you can tie it to the boom as a preventer when you are running free.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ed Cassidy</i> <br />Would it be a valid course of action for a less experienced sailor to drop anchor when in such a threatening situation and just ride it out? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, Ed, that'd be about the worst thing to do. The bow would be pointing right into the waves and the motion would be horrendous. heave to, learn it...
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dmpilc</i> <br />... I leave the dock lines at the dock, and it is always a reach to reattach the bow dock line on my port side. We put the loop through the center hole of the cleat and bring the loop around each horn. I'm now going to uncleat that line at the dock and leave it cleated on the boat. Then I can also use it to lash down the genoa when we anchor to swim or it will be ready for rafting up with another boat(s). <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I wouldn't. I recommend that you leave your dock line on the dock, and simply use another short line to keep your jib down on the deck. Better yet, use a jib downhaul, and with tight sheets the downhaul line keeps the jib on the deck. One stop shopping instead of two.
Also, it's too motorboat-type-ie to loop the dock lines through a cleat - not good practice; hard to get off when you need to, puts undue stress on the cleat - just hang the line over the cleat.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ed Cassidy</i> <br />Would it be a valid course of action for a less experienced sailor to drop anchor when in such a threatening situation and just ride it out? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ed, the appropriateness of almost every technique relating to sailing depends on all the conditions that are being experienced at the time, and the alternatives with which you are confronted. Whether or not anchoring is appropriate depends on the depth of the water, the adequacy of your ground tackle, the adequacy of the holding ground, the extent to which the location is sheltered from wind and waves, the health of the crew (i.e., whether they're sick or injured or exhausted, etc. However, anchoring during a storm is very difficult. If the anchor doesn't bite, the boat will be adrift and out of control. Most sailors consider anchoring a last-ditch measure to prevent disaster, and not one of the first measures to consider.
Last summer, a friend anchored under the Chesapeake Bay bridge during a horrendous storm after he had lowered his sails and been motoring downwind, and then his motor quit. He had the alternatives of either drifting without power under bare poles, or anchoring. He chose to anchor, and it worked for him.
Some might fault him for lowering all sails, but I was also in that storm, and we also lowered all sails and used the motor. With any amount of sail flying, the boat was heeling excessively, and motoring was the best way to control the boat.
In a true emergency situation, you consider all the conditions, make your best decision, and hope for the best. Even small sailboats like ours are remarkably able to survive horrible storms, if we secure all the hatches to keep out the water, reduce the boat's speed, prevent it from hitting anything solid, such as the shore, or a jetty, or another boat, and keep the boat upright. Most importantly, make sure all the crew stay with the boat. Do whatever you have to do to accomplish those objectives, and the overwhelming likelihood is that everyone will be safe.
If you intend to go cruising, you should read the books by some of the authorities on storm sailing techniques, such as K. Adlard Coles, Lin and Larry Pardey, Steve Dashew and others. They analyze many of the techniques, and discuss their pros and cons. Also, you can learn alot just by reading the accounts of many of the small boat voyagers in history, as they describe their thoughts and strategies.
We have all gone through the same thought processes that you're going through, and decided that sailing is a reasonably safe sport, but the more you learn, the safer it'll be.
To clarify I did reduce sail early on, but the lack of a second reef point on my main is something I need to change. And since my main sail is really old if not original this is a good excuse. I just need to decide on the 2+2 or full batten. I think the average afternoon wind is in the 15-20 range.
I also think <b>heaving to </b> would have made a big difference now in hindsight, especially since I was in the middle of the lake and would have had several miles to drift with the wind and swells before I landed on the lee shore. Unfortunately I do not know how Also once I got back on my buoy within an hour the squall had passed and the lake was remarkable calm. So I shall learn this technique ASAP.
The thought of anchoring did cross my mind. I have a Bruce hanging on the bow and a Danforth hanging on the stern ready to go. Both are over sized and came with the boat, the PO sailed in the ocean (SF bay and BC) Due to the depth of lake Tahoe something like 1500 ft anchoring is only an option near shore. My plan was if once I gave up my sails and if I had engine troubles to drop one or both over the side in a last ditch effort to avoid landing on the lee shore. I think now that since the storm ended so rapidly I would have still had some sea room before I went on the rocks. I wish I could paste the graph from the us Davis site here, its interesting how the wind dropped like a stone, but it doesn't want to copy.
All in all though I am really pleased with how Grace Note handled it all, much better than I did I really was worried for a while there. Our boats are really quite amazing. I went over her yesterday and she is rock solid. i expected to see spider cracks in the gel coat at the base of the shrouds or damage to the rudder. Nothing at all I did find a 6" tear in my 150 Genoa on the leach, fabric has degraded due to UV exposure I think. So I am really wanting a new main and 135 Genoa.
And I do feel a bit more confident now though mainly in Grace. It would seem that with the right techniques and gear she can handle most anything I am likely to encounter on Lake Tahoe in the summer. Knock on wood no offence Mother nature I prefer 10-20 winds and the same angles of heel please. I have no desire to test her again. She really came through for me and I think of her as alot more than a boat.....if you know what I mean. I expect only sailers like you folks would understand.
If you ever get in the area Jim B let me know and I would love to enter next years Trans Tahoe with your expert help.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JimB517</i> <br />To heave to in a C25, just tack without touching the sheets. The jib will end up backwinded, while the main is still full. Put the tiller all the way down, which means, as if it is trying to turn the bow of the boat back upwind (through the backed jib - ain't going to happen). You can just tie the tiller down there.
Your boat will drift downwind about beam onto the wind and seas. The motiion will be very comfortable. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Your description of heaving to is what I've always seen. However, it always misses one point. "Tack without touching the sheets" is all well and good, but from which point of sail? Broad reach, close hauled? I'm guessing that's an important point that I've NEVER seen written.
So please could you add this one last point, or tell me that it doesn't matter.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mrapkins</i> <br />...Broad reach, close hauled? I'm guessing that's an important point that I've NEVER seen written.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Close-hauled--you want a basically flat, backwinded jib. I used to snug both sails a little as I tacked. Then I would ease the main just a little and adjust it until I got the attitude I wanted--bow about 45 deg. into the waves, but boat moving to leeward.
Also, close-hauled, you can take off some speed before and during the tack so you come to a stop fairly soon after you've gone through the wind.
BTW, IMHO, when a serious squall line is approaching (meaning winds that <i>could</i> exceed 50), a C-25 shouldn't have any sails up unless Jim B. is skipper.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave Bristle</i> <br />BTW, IMHO, when a serious squall line is approaching (meaning winds that <i>could</i> exceed 50), a C-25 shouldn't have any sails up unless Jim B. is skipper. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I prefer not to be out in winds over 50. But,in the best of all possible worlds, if I were caught at sea in high winds I would want to have a proper storm jib hoisted to maintain some control. Either that, or a sea anchor. Dropping all sail and going below with the hatches battened, trusting in the boat and the gods, is a tried and true tactic, but only as a last resort.
Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ. The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.