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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/17/2009 : 10:49:10

How many members are "certified" (or certifiable!) as sailors?

US Sailing offers dinghy sailing, keelboat, nearshore, offshore, etc certifications for sailors. They issue you a card if you pass and that can be used whenever you want to rent a bareboat, or generally prove that you can handle a specific type of sailboat under a specific set of conditions.

Are there any other generally-recognized sailing certification organizations or bodies out there?

What percentage of the members have gone through the courses, and what courses? Would you recommend them for experienced sailors, just so that you have the "piece of paper"?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 11:09:33

I took the Coast Guard Auxialiary Boating and Seamanship Course and the Sailing Course and taught both for five years. When I lived in Virginia I was also certified as a state boating safety instructor.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 12:04:54

I have taken only a couple of basic courses. My training-good or bad- came from on the water training on a Catalina 27 with the instructor from one of my classes. I went our every weekend for several months. After that is when I got my Catalina 22. My education beyond that has come from in the field training and this site.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 13:26:25

I too am a certified instructor with the US Power Squadron and have taught the boatsmart and sail trim courses, as well as Marine Electronics. I've been sailing for years and have a log of many of my longer sailing trips on my 16 foot day sailer and the C25.

Nonetheless, if I show up to rent a sailboat, I still have to take the "basic sailing instruction" for $40 before I can rent the boat because I don't have the little card in my wallet.

Obviously it does two things for the rental agent: (1) lets them make sure I know how to sail, how to dock, how to anchor and how to handle a power boat - this keeps their insurance rates lower and (2) provides an upsell on the rental.

One reason I have not taken the US Sailing courses is that you have to spend a week doing it and it ain't too economical. Not that it is not a good value for the money, it's just a few more dollars and days than I want to spend right now.

My question is "if I took the US Sailing course, would I become a better, more astute and assured and smarter sailor?"

Edited by - on

HeelinPatrick
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 14:22:14

I took Keel Boat via US Sailing, as my now wife was taking it too, figured would do it with her, plus would be nice if wanted to charter a boat. You can always learn something, but I didn't benefit that much, pretty basic material. I haven't chartered anything, so don't know if it will help, but from what I understand, a Keelboat cert. will get you a bareboat in BVI. ASA is the other organization similar to US Sailing, but I hear US Sailing is more intent on you learning the material, than just graduating you.

Don't really plan to take any other courses, too much $$ and time, when could be doing sailing on my own. Just reading thru the courses, seems like most of it can be learned by reading. Especially if you're good with mechanical things and fixing stuff. Of course it might not click in until you put it to use and practice it, so when stuff hits the fan, you know what to do. I enjoy going out in heavy weather, and practicing in it.

I see those courses to be designed for people just starting out and plenty of money, and they want to rent or buy a boat. Or don't know anyone with a boat, and this is how they get started. I would think resume, experience, and general skill say much more than the paper. I have no idea if anyone else I know has taken a course, my guess is probably not.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 15:01:46

I'm ASA bare-boat certified to 40'. Took the course to be able to charter in the Caribbean and Belize (had a 46' catamaran there) 2 Gulf crossings on a 50' cat didn't hurt the resume either!

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 18:15:41

In took sailing as a P.E. class in college. We used a textbook provided by the Red Cross. does that count?

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 20:31:41

DavidP
of course, everything in college counts!

Patrick
I have to say that the books are really fantastic. I got the basic sailing book by Gary Jobson from my daughter a few years back, and it is very clear and instructive. I may check to see whether I can just purchase some of the books.

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 20:58:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 I'm ASA bare-boat certified to 40'. Took the course to be able to charter in the Caribbean and Belize (had a 46' catamaran there) 2 Gulf crossings on a 50' cat didn't hurt the resume either!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have taken the ASA certification course through Advanced Coastal Cruising and Coastal Navigation. That course was great for learning the right way to navigate in sight of land, night sailing, and making a land fall.
I originally took the ASA Bare Boat certification because I wanted to be able to charter. Because of that course I was able to charter a 40' boat to sail in the Greek Cyclades. The coast guard over there very much wanted to see some sort of certification.
Next up is Celestial Navigation and Off Shore Passage Making. The manuals that come from ASA for these courses are really first rate. Generally they are a combination of book work and on the water work. The quality of on the water work depends upon the certified instructor but so far all of mine have been first rate and I have learned alot.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 21:44:49

We intended to go to BVI a couple of years ago to take the basic keelboat followed by the one week certification. Unfortunately a grumpy gall bladder intervened and the opportunity to go again hasn't presented itself. Both of us are self taught. I spend a lot of time reading about sailing stuff, and this forum has been a great resource. I'd still like to go through those courses, maybe next year.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2009 : 07:12:32

Training and education is always helpful, but certification has not been required by any company that I ever chartered with. They want some assurance that you know how to operate the boat, mainly under power, and that you'll bring it back to them undamaged. If you don't have a certification, then you should prepare a resume of your sailing experience. Include the number of years sailing, and the size and design of each of your boats, list any courses that you have either taken or taught, list the manufacturer and sizes of any boats that you have chartered in the past (including the dates and the names of the charter companies, and whether the engines were inboard or outboard), list any significant sailing accomplishments, such as major regattas or racing awards you have won or any major passages you have made, list any sailing articles you have had published and include a copy of the articles as published, and, if you have any certifications, furnish a copy.

But, if you furnish your resume and they still want you to pay $40. for "basic sailing instruction," I suggest you pay it happily. I have had about three of those sessions, and, within an hour a knowledgeable person will quickly teach you all you need to know to handle a big diesel auxiliary around the docks. It's the cheapest, quickest instruction you'll ever find for handling a big boat. In fact, after one of them went through the required checklist of skills, I asked him to teach me how to back the boat into the slip, which he was happy to do, and I tipped him accordingly. If you can perform the basic maneuvers and back into a slip, you'll be able to get around nicely.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2009 : 07:20:56

No need for we inland lake sailors, all we do is steer.

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windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2009 : 10:58:15

I took the ASA 101 two years ago, as there is MUCH about keel boats that we Hobie sailors don't know - anchoring, radio, docking, mooring, motors, navigation, to name a few. I'm going to BVI in November to take a 7-day liveaboard course that will give me ASA103 and 104 (Coastal Cruising and Bareboat Chartering). I'm sure, eventually, I'll take every ASA course there is.

I was 44 years old the first time I stepped on a sailboat. I'm 49 now. So it was just five years ago that I took to heart the words of the writer Beth Leonard, who says the best, fast-track to learning sailing is to crew on racing boats, which is what I started doing. I race all the time as a result, though racing really doesn't interest me. I have a TON still to learn, but crewing on those boats as they are being pushed to the limit, where things are breaking and being fixed, is just great education - just like Leonard says. Also, I get to see many different boats, which is really fun. On the down side, I've been yelled at as much as I ever was as a boy, and my ego has been wounded more times than I can count. As for the ASA certificate - I don't put much value in the paper itself, but I greatly look forward to a week of formal education, of pulling together all these bits and pieces gleaned over the last five years. (And of course, a week of sailing in the BVI is not a bad bonus, either!) hehe.

Edited by - windsong on 08/18/2009 12:20:12

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2009 : 12:31:55

Frank - don't you ever feel the urge to sail the deep blue yonder?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2009 : 13:16:03

Five years ago, out of curiosity I sent a sailing resume, which consisted of 10 years ownership of 25 foot sailboats on the Great Lakes (with no formal training or certifications), to the Moorings and this was their reply...

Dear Mr. Lucier,

Congratulations! We have received and approved your request to skipper a Moorings yacht on a future sailing vacation.

We are pleased to inform you that you are qualified to sail any Moorings bareboat yacht, monohull or catamaran, up to 41' in length at any of the following nine Moorings' bases: Tortola, Abacos, Baja, Nice, Hyeres, Turkey, Corfu, Tonga and Australia..."

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Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2009 : 14:17:43

Got my USCG "6-pack" in 1981, then the ASA Sailing Instructor Basic Sailing in '83 when I worked as a charter captain in SW Florida in the early 80's. When I've chartered in the BVI I send them a copy of those certificates plus a resume, no problems getting a boat.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2009 : 06:00:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 Frank - don't you ever feel the urge to sail the deep blue yonder?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not really, but I bet I would get the bug if I ever caught a ride.

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Windhover
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2009 : 23:27:20

I've taken the ASA 101-103, Basic Keelboat and Coastal Cruising. Taking ASA 104, Bareboat Charter, next weekend. Granted the courses are pricey, however the instructors are sure you know the material and the practical application when done. Worth the money when sailing with my kids. This was the fastest way I could find to become a competent, safe sailor, and I was able to enjoy my C25 from the first time we went out, rather than suffer the frustration of trying to make the boat go and not knowing what I was doing wrong for a season or two.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2009 : 04:47:37

I chartered in the BVI's this past March. I went with to the MOorings website
and submitted my sailing resume online. A few days later I received a letter in the mail (might have been email I can't recall) The letter stated that I was approved to rent any boat in any fleet at any of their worldwide locations (including Sunsail and Footloose). We selected Footloose and at the time of charter, I indicated I had a sailing resume if needed and they said that's nice - and never even looked at it.

They really don't care if you can sail - As Steve mentioned: can you drive her under power, can you anchor, pick up a mooring, operate a radio and dock the boat. (Most of the time they put a captain on the boat for you to dock it back at home base anyway.) Grabbing a mooring ball is the biggest thing.

I'd submit that 80-90% of the people here have the skills and resume to qualify.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2009 : 07:18:29

I chartered a Bavaria 42 in BVI for Dec. 26-Jan. 2 this year. I told them on the phone my experience level. ASA 101 only. They sent over the contract within an hour. No resume. Deal is done.

The contract reserves the right for them to put their own captain on the boat if they don't get a warm feeling about your abilities. I sure don't expect THAT to be necessary. The captain is at your cost, $150/day plus expenses. He'll get off the boat as soon as he feels comfortable with your skills.

Edited by - windsong on 08/22/2009 07:19:03

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2009 : 10:31:14

I was pretty amazed at the lack of checkout that existed when we were down there. On the 47footer we rented there was a lot of instruction, windlass instructions, air conditioning instructions, generator instructions, head operation, freezer and fridge operation, reefing instructions etc. There was more concern about putting the cardboard containers from the 30 cases of beer on board than there was of our sailing skills.

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