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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Docking: Bow first or back in?

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jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2010 : 20:24:43

When I first got my Catalina 250 WK I was assigned what appeared to be a great slip. It opened toward the open lake and was plenty wide. I eventually concluded that it was a dreaded "KILLER SLIP!!

The first day in the marina I was congratulating myself on scoring a great view of the lake from my cockpit with the boat nose in to the main dock. After not much of a storm I found that the bow had ridden up on the floating dock despite being secured about 3 feet from it. Fortunately a live-aboard neighbor adjusted my ropes before there was any damage. At that time I noticed that all the other sailboats on the front row were facing the open water. Monkey see monkey do. So now it was facing the only direction where strong winds could reach it as there was high terrain on the other three sides. I was about to leave when I noted that my boat was the only one with a tilted up outboard motor which now was just three feet from the main dock. The short finger dock precluded tying it any further away. With the stern in now there was the real possibility of my motor being damaged in a storm unless I left it down to suffer corrosion. All the others were inboard powered.

I gave up my view to get a slip on the other side of the main dock so that the boat faced the potential high wind direction. No more Killer Slip for me.

Edited by - jbkayaker on 02/06/2010 20:26:23

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2010 : 06:43:37

I haven't read through all the posts here so please forgive me if this has already been said, but here is my thought...

If you come in hot, bow-first, what will you damage and how badly? What will it cost to fix it?
If you come in hot, stern-first, what will you damage and how badly? What will it cost to fix it?

We tend to come in bow-first, uless we are doing repairs, or have a good reason not to. Also, this gives us a couple extra seconds to notice if someone is coming down the finger to chat. It seems crass, but sometimes we really don't want the company and its nice to be able to let them know as they approach that this isn't a good time. I find that when we are backed into the slip, everyone wants to chat, and the tourists can get annoying after a bit. (We are in a public marina)

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2010 : 10:17:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jbkayaker
 When I first got my Catalina 250 WK I was assigned what appeared to be a great slip. It opened toward the open lake and was plenty wide. I eventually concluded that it was a dreaded "KILLER SLIP!!

The first day in the marina I was congratulating myself on scoring a great view of the lake from my cockpit with the boat nose in to the main dock. After not much of a storm I found that the bow had ridden up on the floating dock despite being secured about 3 feet from it. Fortunately a live-aboard neighbor adjusted my ropes before there was any damage. At that time I noticed that all the other sailboats on the front row were facing the open water. Monkey see monkey do. So now it was facing the only direction where strong winds could reach it as there was high terrain on the other three sides. I was about to leave when I noted that my boat was the only one with a tilted up outboard motor which now was just three feet from the main dock. The short finger dock precluded tying it any further away. With the stern in now there was the real possibility of my motor being damaged in a storm unless I left it down to suffer corrosion. All the others were inboard powered.

I gave up my view to get a slip on the other side of the main dock so that the boat faced the potential high wind direction. No more Killer Slip for me.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Seems like with right spring lines, the bow hitting would be impossible?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2010 : 13:06:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 Seems like with right spring lines, the bow hitting would be impossible?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...except in the event of a fumble or incompletion.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2010 : 15:41:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I find that when we are backed into the slip, everyone wants to chat, and the tourists can get annoying after a bit. (We are in a public marina)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not to mention the Paparazzi and autograph seekers

Seriously I know what you mean, When that happens I tend to lose track of what has to be done and end up wondering if I did this or that on the way home in the car.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2010 : 13:30:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Seems like with right spring lines, the bow hitting would be impossible?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's true if the finger dock is long enough and high enough. The top of this floating dock system is only a foot above water. With my Cat250 nose in the stanchion at the forward end of the gate to the cockpit was at the end of the finger dock. The bow was three feet from the main dock. There is nothing else to tie a line to unless I put an anchor way out in 30 foot deep water. On the starboard side I had two 3/8 inch nylon spring lines one from the bow to the tip of the dock and the second to about 66% of the dock. Then a third line from the tip of the dock to the aft cleat. A fourth line ran from the forward cleat to the corner (of the main and finger docks).

On the port side a single line ran from the port forward cleat to the main dock at about a 45º angle. The fetch into the marina from the open direction is 2 miles. With big breaking waves from open water hitting the stern the boat would surge up and toward the main dock contacting it. Fortunately the contact point was wood which gave a little. All the lines were tight.

Edited by - jbkayaker on 02/09/2010 13:33:24

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2010 : 13:54:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jbkayaker
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Seems like with right spring lines, the bow hitting would be impossible?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's true if the finger dock is long enough and high enough. The top of this floating dock system is only a foot above water. With my Cat250 nose in the stanchion at the forward end of the gate to the cockpit was at the end of the finger dock. The bow was three feet from the main dock. There is nothing else to tie a line to unless I put an anchor way out in 30 foot deep water. On the starboard side I had two 3/8 inch nylon spring lines one from the bow to the tip of the dock and the second to about 66% of the dock. Then a third line from the tip of the dock to the aft cleat. A fourth line ran from the forward cleat to the corner (of the main and finger docks).

On the port side a single line ran from the port forward cleat to the main dock at about a 45º angle. The fetch into the marina from the open direction is 2 miles. With big breaking waves from open water hitting the stern the boat would surge up and toward the main dock contacting it. Fortunately the contact point was wood which gave a little. All the lines were tight.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow, I would have moved too. I had the opportunity as well to move to the end of the dock with a really nice view but I declined. Even though we don't have big waves I didn't want to be out there with all the power boat wakes.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 18:50:10

To follow up on my original question, I've now docked my boat a few times in the tricky currents on the Delaware River. I feel like I have docking down pat, as long as we're backing into the slip against the current (or in slack water). Starting from the river, I back all the way into the fairway, standing in front of the wheel while facing backwards while my first mate handles the forward/reverse/throttle. I set my speed by passing the docks as slowly as possible, then angle into the fairway gradually, and make a quick turn into the slip. Although I'm moving slow relative to ground, I'm really moving fast relative to the water, so it responds very fast, which is great. Of course, I really have to hold tightly onto the wheel, because the rudder's very unstable with water rushing past it this fast.

I find the boat controls much better with the motor "dragging" the boat behind it. Any time I make a turn, the boat pivots around the keel, which straightens out the bow relative to our direction of travel. We haven't tried this yet going with the current, but I expect it will be much more challenging. Also it might be tough in rough water, since with the walk-through transom we might get our feet a little wet backing up in the unprotected river.

I have had some difficulties pulling forward out of the dock, especially when the boat is starting out in the same direction of the current, but slower. With the water moving forward past the rudder, the boat turns the opposite direction from the wheel until my speed exceeds the current (by which time I could be hitting the boats on the opposite side). This marina has no outer pilings - only a finger dock that's about half the length of the boat, so there's no clear way to spring out of the slip.

I'm going to try a hard link to see if turning the motor gives me better slow speed turning ability. Although my boat does not have an outboard bracket, I found a "sweet spot" in the motor well that allows my Honda 15hp motor to get full turning with about 1/4" clearance on either side, as long as the motor's tiller/throttle is straight up (hence the need for a hard link).

Edited by - TakeFive on 04/06/2010 18:51:55

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 19:35:28

Rick, from what you describe, when the current is with you going out, you might try doing the whole maneuver with the engine idling in reverse, using the reverse-rudder techniques (steering in the direction you want the stern to move), and throttling up a little to pivot after you've cleared the slip. Prop walk will tend to pull the stern to port--if you're trying to turn the bow to starboard, you shouldn't need to turn the engine.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 20:34:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Rick, from what you describe, when the current is with you going out, you might try doing the whole maneuver with the engine idling in reverse, using the reverse-rudder techniques (steering in the direction you want the stern to move), and throttling up a little to pivot after you've cleared the slip. Prop walk will tend to pull the stern to port--if you're trying to turn the bow to starboard, you shouldn't need to turn the engine.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I might be able to slowly drift in neutral until my stern clears the bow of the adjacent boat, then throw it into reverse to pivot the stern to the left/bow to the right. Only problem is the current does not go perfectly parallel to the slip.

I don't have my permanent slip assignment yet, but I'm going to try to get a slip that I turn right when exiting for this reason, and also because we'll be backing in against the prevailing wind and able to watch the sunset from our stern.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 09:59:10

Privacy.

Stern in gives you good access and if you like talking to everyone who walks down the docks, that's fine.

I like my privacy going bow in, can sit in the cockpit, no one knows I'm there unless I choose to be "sociable."

That's in addition to all the material mentioned so far.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 16:13:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 ...Stern in gives you good access and if you like talking to everyone who walks down the docks, that's fine.

I like my privacy going bow in, can sit in the cockpit, no one knows I'm there unless I choose to be "sociable."...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Unfortunately I do not really have a choice for privacy. The short finger docks in this marina (~1/2 the length of the boat), the low level of the floating docks, the high freeboard of the C250, and the lack of side decks, all conspire to make it impossible to board when pulled in forward. So I'm going to sacrifice some privacy. We live 12 minutes from the marina, so unlikely to do a lot of hanging out at the dock.

Here's a satellite pic of the marina. The green arrow will be my new slip for the summer. (Will move there next week sometime.) I opted to back in toward the west so I'll be backing up against the prevailing wind. The boat shown in the pic is NOT mine - obviously other models of boat can board off the foredeck:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=39.858418,-75.294132&num=1&t=h&sll=39.862482,-75.30201&sspn=0.015581,0.046349&ie=UTF8&ll=39.858307,-75.29418&spn=0.001025,0.002897&z=19

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 16:47:25

I think my last engine had a proximity sensor because it stalled so often as I turned into my slip. Lines are your friends.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 21:17:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 I think my last engine had a proximity sensor because it stalled so often as I turned into my slip. Lines are your friends.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Once again, Bristle's First Law: "Never approach a dock any faster than you're willing to hit it."

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