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Sunscreens [again]

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5416 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/13/2010 : 17:16:16

I did not want to hijack the eye-surgery thread, but it got me to thinking about sunscreen formulation. I've read a bit about common substances found in many sunscreen formulations including:

Benzophenones (dixoybenzone, oxybenzone)
>> Oxybenzone is the most common in my area.

PABA and PABA esters (ethyl dihydroxy propyl PAB, glyceryl PABA, p-aminobenzoic acid, padimate-O or octyl dimethyl PABA)
>> These have fallen into disfavor lately, and are now much rarer.

Avobenzone [butyl-methyoxydibenzoylmethane; Parsol 1789]
>> This is still approved in Europe, none of the others are.

Many of the "-benzones" have a few drawbacks:
1. they are powerful free radical generators;
2. they mimic the action of female hormones;
and in some literature, are attributed in generating a significant number of cancer cases.

Sunscreen containing Titanium Dioxide is available, and is the type that I look for in the store. Titanium Dioxide is a reasonably inert substance, but sunscreens containing it are somewhat more expensive that the "benzones".

I like the spray-on sunscreens, but many of these also contain benzones.

Any thoughts among the forum members on this?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2010 : 22:05:11

None of them are much risk for adults. Compare the incidence of cancer increases vs the incidence of skin cancer - everything has a risk/benefit ratio, and this one is pretty clear. Titanium dioxide has a risk associated with contact with mucosa and open cracks and lesion on the skin, but it is extremely effective. None of the risk issues approach the incidence of skin cancer in the general population, let alone sailors. It is important to be aware of the issues, but more important to be knowledgeable about what the numbers in the bigger picture mean. You are asking reasonable questions, but many people's irrational focus on exposure and side effects always reminds me of a survey of shoppers at an organic food market in Boston about twenty years ago. The most common reason offered for buying organics was the risk of the chemicals used in production, but fewer than half of the shoppers used their seatbelts while driving to the market.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5416 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 19:18:24

I think my voice is getting pretty high, but other than that, I'm fine.

I've been using titanium oxide for years now, and I have not had any negative reactions.

I've done away with the Oxybenzone and PABA compounds on my boat, but my family and I never go without sunscreen.

Like many of those from the sixties and seventies I'd had yearly sunburns, and in the past few years, I've had a basal cell carcinoma removed from my forehead. The surgeon was an artist - no noticeable scar.

I go to my dermatologist for a full mole scan twice a year, and I have a few bomb craters from his biopsies - all negative for thank God - over the past 15 years.

Early detection of skin cancer is the only remedy for the results of the original sun damage, and sunscreen applied religiously is the best prevention. But there's still a risk.

Let's hope we all stay lucky for a long, long time.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 19:28:21

I can attest to the danger of melanoma (skin cancer)... My Admiral succumbed to it six years ago, at age 57. It is the roadside bomb of cancers--possibly the most suddenly metastatic strains. It was in her liver before we knew what was happening... Game over, two months later.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/15/2010 19:53:33

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 20:42:46

My dad managed to survive melanoma (and two other cancers, incredibly rare), but I learned my lesson from it. My brother was a USN diver and is even more fair skinned than I am (my last name may be Portuguese, but my whole family looks like we stepped off the boat from the UK). He's had several growths scraped off of his face and neck since his retirement from the Navy and has to go through the same six month regimen. So far I've been lucky, I've been using sunscreen for a very long time, my last bad sunburn was while in the USN down in Gitmo in the 80's.

What brands of sunscreen do you recommend? I used Bullfrog for a very long time as a land surveyor, you can't easily sweat it off and it wasn't sticky. It was very unpleasant to get in your eyes though. On the boat we keep Waterbabies SPF 30 or 50, and we have it all over the place, although I still manage to forget occasionally and regret it. We also have Tilley hats for both of us, which are pretty good about us out of trouble

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5416 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 21:41:36

Dave - a friend's mom that had a similar story, so that's when I got religion about checkups and sunscreen. Seriously heart breaking :-<
David - I've used a lot of different brands, I always check the ingredients. Recently, I got some Bull Frog that was a good buy at the local pharmacy - end of season clearance. Baby blanket is good too. I like 30 SPF

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 22:07:11

Some research suggests that there isn't much benefit to spf >30, but I figure it can't hurt and use 50 on my head and neck. Be aware that sunscreen more than a year old should be discarded, but that is probably not true for titanium dioxide. Also, nano particle products like clear zinc oxide are more readily absorbed and accumulate in the body over time, so you probably don't want to use them for total body coverage. Most skin cancers and melanomas are well managed with early detection and excision; malignant melanoma is the exception in that death usually follows diagnosis by a few months.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 13:28:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 ...Most skin cancers and melanomas are well managed with early detection and excision; malignant melanoma is the exception in that death usually follows diagnosis by a few months.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The problem with any melanoma is that it can suddenly become malignant...leading to the second part of your statement.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 15:09:20

Wow, I thought I was doing well just to always use SPF 50. I always try to get the water resistant kind made by either Bullfrog or Coppertone Sport. I usually get the spray on kind, as it's all that's available, but the pump kind works so much better and lasts longer.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5416 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 17:03:23

Dave,
Since my basal cell carcinoma, I see Dr Ken 2X a year.

It's not pretty, but I spend a little time each month in front of the full length mirror checking for "moles gone wild"

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 10:31:24

Interesting sun screen report, you can search your favorites and see if they are any good.

http://www.ewg.org/2010sunscreen/best-beach-sport-sunscreens/

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 10:55:49

Show your age with this

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/58480?parentCategory=502858&feat=502858-tn&cat4=502857

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 10:57:47

[url="http://shopping.aol.com/articles/2010/05/25/best-sunscreen-products/?ncid=AOLCOMMshopDYNLprim0001&icid=main|htmlws-main-w|dl6|link2|http%3A%2F%2Fshopping.aol.com%2Farticles%2F2010%2F05%2F25%2Fbest-sunscreen-products%2F%3Fncid%3DAOLCOMMshopDYNLprim0001"]Best Sunscreen Products: EWG's 2010 Sunscreen Guide[/url]

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 11:27:10

And don't forget your sun mask...

http://www.uptownanglerstore.com/patagonia-sun-mask.html

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 14:21:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Don B
 And don't forget your sun mask...

http://www.uptownanglerstore.com/patagonia-sun-mask.html
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Walk in a store like this and they are going to hit the silent alarm! Rival gangs will gun you down!

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 15:44:38

I like to exercise and have been doing it for years. As a result, in the winter, my chest breaks out. My dermotoligist prescribed three RXs...none work. Finally, he said, "when it gets warm, sit in the sun." For years he's told be NOT to do that...when questioned, he said, "at your age it doesn't make any difference!"

FWIW...the sun works.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2010 : 19:31:31

Like many things, a little UV is good but more is not always better.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5416 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2010 : 14:28:45

If I'm out for under an hour, I usually don't sweat it. By Sept I usually have a pretty good "farmer's tan".

My equipment for being "all-day outside in the summer sun" is my tilley hat, my golf shirt with a collar I can turn up, and my local drugstore's no-frills Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Oxide sunscreen for my nose, ears, cheeks, neck, forearms and knees. Pretty much a ritual.

If I were traveling in the desert, I'd go with the sunmask to keep the sandstorms at bay.

Hmmm . . . Maybe I can use one of those when I go to the Burning Man Festival this August!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 07:27:16

Rather than sunscreen does anypone have a recomendation for something to wear to protect your legs besides jeans.

I purchased a Columbia long sleeve shirt yesterday which comes with a UPF40 rating. Didn't get a chance to test it but will try this afternoon.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 07:38:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Rather than sunscreen does anypone have a recomendation for something to wear to protect your legs besides jeans?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You mean like a grass skirt? I prefer chinos--something with usable pockets... by about August I wear them instead of shorts to keep the flies off my legs.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 07:57:35

I use O.R. jammies ( the pants ) if it is cool enough. I also keep a bucket with a rope in the dumpster to dump over me and the clothes I have on. Works great. I don't mind a wet fantail.

I also try to make a midday nap, or go below to read from 12-4. Siesta during the heat of the day. Works so good because I can then enjoy the better parts of the day.

I keep the bottles of sunscreen out in the floorboard, to apply early and often.

I see the derm every 6 months, as I'm now 53 I expect a cuttin every visit. When in doubt, cut it out. Just go get you some designer underwear for the visits... :)

The surgeons motto, "Nothing heals like cold steel".

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 09:35:29

A chance to cut is a chance to cure.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 09:48:56

We could use what the pro cyclists use..

White dirt is hard on the eyes though...

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 11:08:53

I went shopping at my local large, national chain drugstore the other day in search of non-benzone containing sunscreen. I looked at the ingredient labels on every brand on the shelf and couldn't find one.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 11:13:12

Mom says, "I can remember when they said Eggs and Bacon and Sunshine was good for you".

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John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2010 : 11:34:57

Doctors used to RECOMMEND Lucky Strike cigarettes.

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