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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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hull cleaning

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/04/2010 : 10:10:27

my hull has those brown water stains at and near the water line. West Marine sells a hull cleaner that I believe is oxalic acid. It works great, brush on - hose off and the stains are gone. The problem is WM's excessive cost. I spent an hour poking around Home Depot last night and I couldn't find any oxalic acid. I found gallon bottles of phosporus acid for etching metal and cleaning concrete. The cleaners like TSR also had phosporus acid. I'm afraid to put that on my hull.

Anyone know for sure if WM's hull cleaner is oxalic acid and where to get it cheaper?

By the way, I have oxalic acid in a spray on rust remover. It does take rust stains right off gelcoat. I sprayed some on one of my cheap deck fittings and it took the chrome right off as well.

Practicing for big race and overnight at the yacht club. I can't make 30+ year old boat look like new but at least I can make it clean.

Indiscipline 1978 FK SR #398

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2010 : 12:22:15

Jim,
You can buy oxalic crystals at paint stores like Benjamin Moore. I have no idea what's in the WM stuff, but if it's FSR, here's the [url="http://www.davisnet.com/product_documents/marine/msds/msds790.pdf"]Material Safety Data Sheet[/url] for it. Looks like it's mostly oxalic acid and something to make it more viscous.

However I've heard about people using ketchup to remove the brown stains, but haven't tried it.

Edited by - delliottg on 04/04/2010 12:33:42

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2010 : 12:40:13

From a post by a real pro:

Cleaning the hull: Before wet sanding or compounding can begin you should thoroughly clean the hull. For this process you’ll need a cheap rain suit, duck tape, rubber gloves and some ON & OFF, On & OFF Gel or FSR gel (basically acid). Duck tape where the gloves meet the raincoat so you don't get acid on your skin while reaching over-head to wash the boat. I find using On & Off, and a car wash brush, as effective, but far quicker, than applying FSR gel and they are both made of the same basic components (acids).

Buy a roll or sheet of plastic and rip it with a razor knife into 12-inch wide lengths. Tape this to your dry hull surface at the water line using 3M green tape (seems to work) at the top but let it hang on the bottom as a “drip edge” skirt. You do this so the acid in the ON & OFF does not eat the copper bottom paint and can drip on the ground vs. the bottom paint. Wash and rinse quickly a small area at a time and do this preferably before you before you bottom paint just in case. On & Off is basically FSR without the gel. However, you can wash much faster with ON & OFF than you can with FSR. The ON & OFF will bring back the white of the hull by removing the metals or tannins. Tannins are that rusty orange discoloration you get from the ocean over time that attach to the gelcoat pores. Maine has lots of metals and tannins in the water and ON & OFF is an acid that will eat it. You'll be amazed at the difference in the color of your hull! Even hulls that don’t look bad look amazing after a thorough washing with On & Off. This is a very good place to start before waxing if your boat is older than a few years. Be very careful not to get On & Off or FSR on aluminum rub rails, metals, stanchions, cleats etc. because it will pit them. Only apply FSR or On & Off to the hull! Allow about 1/2 hour for the skirt set up and 1/2 hour for washing the hull.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2339

Edited by - OJ on 04/04/2010 13:58:12

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1316 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2010 : 13:00:09

It's been said that toilet bowl cleaner works wonders... we did... and removed, without effort or breaking banks, all water level stains!!

We're still in Cameroon, Africa for the next 6 weeks and enjoying the culture as well as the two shirt days in spite of the fact that it is the rainy season!!

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2010 : 15:40:40

Jim, Rather than brushing the bottom cleaner on to get rid of the yellow waterline stain ( I'm assuming you mean just above the waterline on the white fiberglass) I put a little on a rag and rub it on the stain. You use very little of the product this way. Ive had my one quart bottle for 6yrs now. Very cost effective. I just realized that you are in the water so this method might be a little hard to do but works great when up on the hard.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2010 : 18:15:01

You might try Mr Clean Magic Erasers. They have worked on everything I've tried them on, but I don't remember if tried them on the waterline.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2010 : 19:51:06

We use [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/28601/377%20710/0/star%20brite/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=star%20brite&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=star%20brite&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=33&subdeptNum=34&classNum=34"]Star Brite Instant Hull Cleaner[/url]. It took off waterline hull stains that other marine cleaners, and toilet bowl cleaner, couldn't. Easy to use and very effective. Contains oxalic acid.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2010 : 05:22:12

A 50/50 mixtute of muriatic acid and water works well. Just make sure you rinse it off quickly.

sten

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2010 : 08:31:58

"I'm told" KETCHUP works, too! That scum at the waterline, and what I have learned to call our "mustache" (same brown slime up around the bow) is caused by "impurities" in the water. Rather than trying homemade stuff, we use FSR (fiberglass stain remover) by Davis. It's a blue gel, no rubbing required, hose it off. Sometime ago I used to know the materials used, but all I care about now is it works, it's easy, no effort...I like that approach. One large plastic jug of it has lasted me over five years, so cost isn't really the issue.

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/list_marine.asp?grp=m17-2

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 04/05/2010 08:34:20

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5396 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2010 : 19:33:35

This week, I plan to give ketchup a try. I've already washed the poliglow off the boat using poliprep and it did a pretty good job of cleaning too, but it's still a little dull, so on with the ketchup.

I'll let you all know how it goes!

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 11:05:14

Jim,--I've never used it on the hull, but have cleaned teak for years with oxalic acid. Actually, cleaned it with TSP and brightened it with oxalic acid. This occurred because back in the early 80's, one of the manufacturers made the mistake of listing his ingredients on the label of his cleaner/brightener solution. I have used ZUD cleanser from the kitchen cleaning section of the supermarket for years. It is oxalic acid meant for removing rust stains from your kitchen and bathroom sinks. This used to be a problem in the Chicago area, and that is where my wife learned it. It is a good product and cheap as dirt. In our area one of our local hardware stores still carries real TSP. Most places have it labeled "TSP--contains no phosphates." HuH?

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 12:07:56

Being partly Dutch, I tried Henk's suggestion. I bought biodegradable toilet bowl cleaner at the supermarket. The formula was to remove rust and scale. It contained lactic acid. I got two bottles for $5.

Worked fine. Squirt on, scrub with deck brush a little, let soak 5 minutes, hose off. No more stains.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 19:49:31

Jim, if you have dollar stores around try the bowl cleaner call "The Works". Get rubber gloves and a sponge, put some on the sponge and wipe and rinse it off. If you have the green slim around the water line, we call it angel hair, go to the same dollar store and get a bowl cleaner call "Sno-Bowl. A squirt of this and a brush will get it off rapido, then rinse. Again rubber gloves are required. I learned the Sno-Bowl trick from a guy called Bottom Dave.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2010 : 06:50:09

<< We use Star Brite Instant Hull Cleaner. It took off waterline hull stains that other marine cleaners, and toilet bowl cleaner, couldn't. Easy to use and very effective. Contains oxalic acid. >>

I tried the starbright hull cleaner and it was much better that many others products I've tried. I can never find it at West, or anywhere, they are always out, which is another indication that it works well.

Heck, I thought it was better than wet sanding.

Edited by - on

Justincase
1st Mate

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Canada
49 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2010 : 07:59:49

I just picked up starbrite deck cleaner ~$7 and hull cleaner ~11$ at wallmart in canada, perhaps check your local one?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5396 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2010 : 11:33:40

Ketchup worked well, and I posted "before" and "after" photos elsewhere. To clean the hull, I used poliprep which smells a lot like Fantastick, then Mr Clean Magic Eraser for spots, then Ketchup, then a mild detergent and no yellow remained. Fortunately, the boat was on the hard, so it made cleaning very easy.

I've used my kayak to clean <i>Passage</i> while in the water. With current and wind I found the best way to hang on to the boat is by stringing a line from bow to stern cleat. I've used Spray 9 and a 3M pad, or a Magic Eraser to get spots on the bow, in the stern and on the rudder just above waterline. Like I said, it's tough to do unless it's slack tide and there's no wind, which is rare. But it is satisfactory for the big stuff and brown stains.

And the real secret? <i>Elbow grease!</i>

Edited by - Voyager on 05/07/2010 11:35:43

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2010 : 10:35:46

I use commercial strength toilet bowl cleaner to remove waterline and spash zone stains on fiberglass topsides just above the bottom paint.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2010 : 17:56:41

You can buy oxalic acid in a number of ways. The hardware tore has it in a liquid, a dihydrate, and you can also buy it as an anhydrous solution ion crystalline form.

See here: http://www.chemistrystore.com/Chemicals_G_R-Oxalic_Acid.html

I used it for getting the iron off the hull at the waterline. Have not hd to use it with my boat on the lift. It is a lot stronger than acetic acid, but serves the same purpose. It is in most hardware stores unless Homeland Secuirity has changed that in the last few years.

Edited by - on

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