Association Forum - Am I wrong

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Am I wrong

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

sbell52859
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
30 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/18/2010 : 06:30:15

Just a little opinion ... I had Jasconius 25 Catalina out the other day for a nice sail, gusts up to 25mph and my inexperience crew pops open their wine ... I mentioned to my daughter, the next day, I would feel better if they saved the drinking until we dock. Am I just being an old fart to ask that, a rule be no drinking until we dock. then we can kick back and talk of the nice time we had on the water.

The Old Fart??

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4312 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 06:46:43

It's your boat, your rules. My opinion, for what it's worth (nothing), with winds in the 25 mph range I would want everyone on board to have their full faculties. Ever try doing a man overboard recovery in 25 mph winds?

If the winds were light and the water calm a glass or two might not be a big deal as you cruise along and watch the sunset.

As I said above, your boat, your rules.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/18/2010 06:47:40

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 06:51:16

Old Fart. Unless you are worried about wine stains, then prudent captain. I would be the prudent captain because I am so anal.

Edited by - on

JudOWNED
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
98 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 07:06:05

If you needed help managing the boat and they were too busy mixing cocktails, then I think you have a point. If it was just a matter of thinking you shouldn't have anything to drink while on the water, I'd have to politely disagree. But also, your boat, your rules.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 07:12:07

Heavy winds--hold the sauce. There's potentially too much going on, especially in those conditions. If your crew were "experienced", they wouldn't have thought about popping corks till the sails were down.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 07:12:31

The captain is responsible for the safety of the vessel AND crew. Sometimes that means making an unpopular decision.

Reminds me of a still painful decision I made a couple weeks ago. We were out with friends and had some younger kids playing in the cabin while the adults were in the cockpit. 2 of the kids were mine, and were accustomed to heeling and steep waves, the others weren't.

Winds were 15, with the potential to gust higher based on some of the storm systems movign around the lake. I only had the jib up and we were making 5 knots, and the adults were asking to raise the main too for a little more excitement.

My concern was that if gusts picked up, we could get into a situation where excessive heeling could knock inexperienced kids over down below, or where quick action would be required by the adult crew - most of which was inexperienced.

Had the crew been more experienced or the kids been with a sitter, my decision would have been different. I did take quite a bit of peer pressure from the adults though, and I felt badly about it.

They all made it back safe and sound though, and I felt like a very much unsung hero.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 07:13:27

our rule is no libations - for anyone - until we're docked or moored...

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 07:15:13

BTW, if you get to it before anybody else answers, you can delete your duplicate thread in the C-25 forum.

...and you're still a young fart!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/18/2010 07:34:30

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 07:31:04

I agree with everyone else. Your boat, your rules. Common sense should rule too (as long as you dont' let the power go to your head). If you're seeing gusts of 25 mph winds, you're possibly heeling excessivly and maybe even rounding up. not the time to be worrying about impaired judgements or slow responses from people you may be depending on in what could be critical situations. I'm all for enjoying the occassional adult beverage or six, but you gotta respect Mother Nature. :-)

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 07:52:57

I agree with Gary B. I wouldn't favor a total prohibition against any alcoholic beverages while underway, because it wouldn't allow adults to enjoy a beer or glass of wine while enjoying a sunset sail. But, I think it depends on all the circumstances. With gusts up to 25 mph, I think alcohol was inappropriate. I would have explained that it was too blustery to be drinking alcohol while underway, and you don't want to see anyone get injured.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 07:58:20

No matter the conditions, I stay sober and let my crew get as wasted as they wish. I like playing host and watching people have a good time. I can sail Windsong just fine single-handed. Of course, if someone's behavior became a danger, then the captain has to nip that in the bud. That's never been an issue.
However, in 25 mph gusts, I've probably got my harness on and I'm reviewing a few of the critical safety procedures with the crew. That does tend to curb the drinking.

Edited by - windsong on 05/18/2010 08:01:45

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 08:48:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sbell52859
 Just a little opinion ... I had Jasconius 25 Catalina out the other day for a nice sail, gusts up to 25mph and my inexperience crew pops open their wine ... I mentioned to my daughter, the next day, I would feel better if they saved the drinking until we dock. Am I just being an old fart to ask that, a rule be no drinking until we dock. then we can kick back and talk of the nice time we had on the water.

The Old Fart??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree, your boat, your rules. I wouldn't make a sweeping no alcohol rule or you might find yourself sailing alone. When we go out we go out for hours and drinking is fine as long as it is moderated and the weather's not potentially dangerous. Usually by the time we hit the dock, unless we're spending the night, we go home. I agree, opening wine when it's huffing at 25 knts is not the best idea.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The captain is responsible for the safety of the vessel AND crew. Sometimes that means making an unpopular decision.

Reminds me of a still painful decision I made a couple weeks ago. We were out with friends and had some younger kids playing in the cabin while the adults were in the cockpit. 2 of the kids were mine, and were accustomed to heeling and steep waves, the others weren't.

Winds were 15, with the potential to gust higher based on some of the storm systems movign around the lake. I only had the jib up and we were making 5 knots, and the adults were asking to raise the main too for a little more excitement.

My concern was that if gusts picked up, we could get into a situation where excessive heeling could knock inexperienced kids over down below, or where quick action would be required by the adult crew - most of which was inexperienced.

Had the crew been more experienced or the kids been with a sitter, my decision would have been different. I did take quite a bit of peer pressure from the adults though, and I felt badly about it.

They all made it back safe and sound though, and I felt like a very much unsung hero.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You made the right call, when there are children on board you can ruin a good sail by over powering the boat and scaring them or worse, injuring them. I took some gals from work sailing one day and we were at hull speed with my 135, winds were 15 to 23knts and we were heeling over 30 degrees at times. They were after me to raise the main and I refused. ("We want to heel more!") I told them, "Maybe when you guys learn more about sailing we can do that, but not on your first sail." Ultimately we all had a lot of fun and they want to try sailing again.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 09:53:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sbell52859
 . . . my inexperience crew pops open their wine . . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Remember when kids would follow the parent's example?

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 12:08:10

Speaking to one old fart to another, safety is the NO 1 issue. I would have explained to the (inexperienced) crew that due to the present conditions-25 knot winds- as the captain and responsible one on the boat, dont want to put anyone's life in danger. I would not want to scare them or state "my boat my rules", rather say, "while sailing is generally a safe and fun sport, the present conditions are such that everyone needs their full faculties should conditions arise". This talk might be given at the time of the invite and reminded before boarding.
You need to be careful if there is drinking once back in your slip that those who are drinking dont leave and drive home drunk.
I prefer to take a softer approach rather than a cranky old fart!

Steve A

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 12:28:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sbell52859
 . . . my inexperience crew pops open their wine . . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Remember when kids would follow the parent's example?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

YES! the history of alcohol use and abuse at sea is well documented. I permit a couple of beers at dinner, and possibly one when going off a long watch, or something when on a passage. Or - if it's a lazy day sail and nothing is going on and I am eating good food - very important - and I have a couple over several hours, no worries. Coasties once upon a time had to drive you to port to prove BUI, thereby giving the offender time to sober up - now they do it onsite. Just watched a big stinkpotter separated from his boat by the Coasties!

This topic has the tendency to divide.... I think common sense and your own comfort zone is really the answer. The Cap'n IS responsible and will be held accountable should injury or death occur under your command. PERIOD.......... That been said, if I made my boat a dry boat when under sail - nobody including myself would want to crew. Let's face it, sailing is sorta boring at times and the consumption of fine beer, wine, and food under sail is really cool.

Finally, and I will climb down from my wine box - while 21 KNOTS of wind would certainly have drew a "No way right now" from this Captain mostly because it makes a mess when it spills - You have to remember that the C25 is in fact a solid pocket yacht. Your guests felt comfortable and trusted you to control the vessel. No bad on them.... If you are uncomfortable becasue of experience, gear onboard, or whatever, then it is your call.

Did you put a reef in? Did you educate them on radio use, and other safety stuff? Sounds like the boat was flying along and everyone but you was having a good time. Put a reef in and level the boat. Remember, some newbies like to fly sideways - as do I from time to time.

sten

Edited by - redviking on 05/18/2010 12:33:23

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 14:51:08

When I get in my car, I make the decision that I will stop at every amber light!
That way, when I see an amber light, I don't waste time making the decision, I just stop.

Using that concept on the boat.
If you come sail with us (Peggy & I) then we will brief you beforehand:

Rule #1 Nothing goes overboard without our permission - We're responsible, and we want to do the right thing.
Rule #2 No peeing over the side! end of chat! See Rule #1
Rule #3 Wipe down the porta pottie after use, everyone onboard knows who was the last to use it, clean up your own carp.
Rule #4 Lifejackets are not optional - they are required, so if you want to be comfortable bring your own inflatable - you are responsible for it.
Rule #5 If the boat is not secured with a line (mooring, anchor or dock) then the bar is off limits.
Rule #6 If the going gets heavy, please don't argue with us, we're going to take the safe route, and if that means returning to home port, sobeit.
Rule #7 If we allow you to use the VHF Radio, keep it clean, consise and respectful.
Rule #8 If we ask you to do something, we're being nice! Do it!
Rule #9 If we ask you to not do something, we're being nice! Don't do it!
Rule #10 All of our guests onboard should relax and enjoy the sail, and we want to do the same.

Perhaps I should print and laminate this!

Any additional rules?

Paul

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

Members Avatar

204 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 15:31:42

As the captain, you are responsible for the safety of your crew, your guests, and your vessel. If the captain says to limit libations until more favorable conditions present themselves, then that's what the crew must do. If the captain says to wear a PFD, then don a PFD you must. If the captain says no street shoes, then you better have a pair of Sperry's in that bag. If the captains says no rap music, then he's just made the world a better place.

I enjoy an adult beverage as much as anyone and am certainly no prude, but overindulgence underway can lead to serious problems (man overboard, slips and falls, mal de mer, etc). I'm afraid too many people think of boating/sailing as an excuse to let 'er rip without fully realizing the consequences. I don't have hard and fast rules about alcohol for my crew or guests, although I do for myself. I let the situation dictate the amount of celebrating that is prudent. A cold malted barley underway in nice predictable weather on a close reach can be magical moment. Underway in gusts to 25 is a great time for caution and more than enough reason to suspend intoxicating compounds.

If requesting that my guests refrain from alcohol makes me an "old fart," it is but another moniker that I will wear with pride as we ALL celebrate the wonderful day we shared under sail... while back at the dock!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 19:57:29

#11 When it is time to have a drink you dang well better not spill red wine on the boat.

P.S. I violate your rule #2 routinely.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 20:30:28

Good list! The other day I felt like adding one: "When we're entering the slip and I drop my spring-line on a cleat and step off the boat to get the other dock-lines as the boat moves forward, don't help by moving the spring-line to another cleat!"

More seriously, I like #8 and #9--even when it's as innocuous as "Would you pick up that plastic bag before it blows overboard?"

Edited by - on

sbell52859
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2010 : 05:17:25

Ahh thanks for the support ... old farts we may be yet safety at sea is main priority

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2010 : 10:28:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 When I get in my car, I make the decision that I will stop at every amber light!
That way, when I see an amber light, I don't waste time making the decision, I just stop.

Using that concept on the boat.
If you come sail with us (Peggy & I) then we will brief you beforehand:

Rule #1 Nothing goes overboard without our permission - We're responsible, and we want to do the right thing.
Rule #2 No peeing over the side! end of chat! See Rule #1
Rule #3 Wipe down the porta pottie after use, everyone onboard knows who was the last to use it, clean up your own carp.
Rule #4 Lifejackets are not optional - they are required, so if you want to be comfortable bring your own inflatable - you are responsible for it.
Rule #5 If the boat is not secured with a line (mooring, anchor or dock) then the bar is off limits.
Rule #6 If the going gets heavy, please don't argue with us, we're going to take the safe route, and if that means returning to home port, sobeit.
Rule #7 If we allow you to use the VHF Radio, keep it clean, consise and respectful.
Rule #8 If we ask you to do something, we're being nice! Do it!
Rule #9 If we ask you to not do something, we're being nice! Don't do it!
Rule #10 All of our guests onboard should relax and enjoy the sail, and we want to do the same.

Perhaps I should print and laminate this!

Any additional rules?

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hmm, I am beginning to think your boat's name does not mean you are a pot head. I had always figured you had gotten stoned, went out for pizza and came home with a boat!

Edited by - pastmember on 05/19/2010 10:30:39

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2010 : 16:19:33

Sorry Frank,

after signing the contract for the boat we couldn't agree on a name, I had picked a dozen or so, Pegg too, no matches. So I finally said.. "I really don't care what the name is as long as it's a joint decision! TaDaaah!

Paul

Edited by - on

JudOWNED
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
98 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2010 : 07:22:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Rule #5 If the boat is not secured with a line (mooring, anchor or dock) then the bar is off limits.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your boat, your rules. But am I the only one here who finds this overly strict? We (wife, our friends and I) enjoy sailing not just for the sailing, but for the entire experience of being on the water. We will, therefore, eat, drink, talk, listen to music and a whole host of other things even while underway. Of course, I'm talking about easy sailing in light to moderate winds, but nevertheless.

I'm sure I will now be branded as the unsafe, alcoholic sailor on the boards! lol

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2010 : 08:04:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JudOWNED
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Rule #5 If the boat is not secured with a line (mooring, anchor or dock) then the bar is off limits.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your boat, your rules. But am I the only one here who finds this overly strict? We (wife, our friends and I) enjoy sailing not just for the sailing, but for the entire experience of being on the water. We will, therefore, eat, drink, talk, listen to music and a whole host of other things even while underway. Of course, I'm talking about easy sailing in light to moderate winds, but nevertheless.

I'm sure I will now be branded as the unsafe, alcoholic sailor on the boards! lol
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My rule regarding alcohol isn't that strict, but I don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" rule here. There's room for a legitimate difference of opinion on the subject. If you don't permit alcohol at all while underway, then you'll never have to deal with a guest who over-indulges, and who is now swinging from the rigging without a pfd. I generally trust my friends not to over-indulge. If I had a guest who I couldn't trust in that regard, I might very well adopt a rule, only for that day, prohibiting alcoholic beverages while under way. My guest would have no way of knowing that the rule was adopted just for him, and just for that day.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

Members Avatar

359 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2010 : 08:09:38

[/quote]

I'm sure I will now be branded as the unsafe, alcoholic sailor on the boards! lol
[/quote]
you forgot lush

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2010 : 08:46:43

10a. NO red wine on the boat!!
11. No longer needed. LOL

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.