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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/10/2010 : 14:22:57

From a Soundings dispatch this afternoon:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Rescue authorities are searching for Abby Sunderland, the 16-year-old attempting to become the youngest solo circumnavigator, after her EPIRBs went off in the southern Indian Ocean at about 6 a.m. (PDT) today, according to news reports. One beacon is attached to a survival suit and one is on the boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a big, unforgiving place.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage before going over to the Dark Side (2007-2025); now boatless for the first time since 1970 (on a Sunfish).

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 14:43:11

She is a capable sailor, has many safety items including a dry suit, survival suit, life raft, and ditch bag with emergency supplies.
You can follow whats going on at http://soloround.blogspot.com/. You wonder whats going on in her mind right now. Lets hope this has a positive outcome and prayers to her family.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5396 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 15:52:28

My wife has been following both Jessica Watson and Abby Sunderland in their attempts to circumnavigate solo, and she remarked that both girls had very different approaches to their quests.

Although Jessica had fewer equipment problems, she had been knocked down in the Southern Ocean at least six times, and had a very bad time with her autopilot. Abby ran into problems with her boat crossing the Atlantic and had to stop in South Africa to make repairs. This was following her incredible voyage down the Pacific coast, around Cape Horn and across the South Atlantic. So she's no slouch when it comes to bravery and dedication.

One thing that must be considered, however, is that it is very late in the year in the Southern Ocean. When Jessica started running into big trouble, it was the equivalent of late October in the mid-40's latitudes. It's a time when the jet stream powers large late Fall storms across this area, and with no land masses to stop them, the weather is ghastly.

Now when Abby got her repairs done and she got back underway, it was like December in those parts. Can you imagine leaving Boston for Lisbon Portugal two weeks before Christmas? That's about what she's been dealing with.

You can't help but wonder who or what may have been pushing this girl to set out under these circumstances - knowing that her older brother had done the trip may have contributed to her sense of obligation - but the collective judgment for her to go at this time seems pretty questionable to me.

Our prayers go out to Abby - may the gods be good to her.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 16:40:06

I've had my concerns as well about this lady's attempt. I've been following her since she left California and thought her to be rushing to get the "youngest" record after Jessica Watson. And, I thought her ill-prepared. Her parents bought her the boat in October in New England. She left California in January and had to put into Cabo and re-start her quest from there after her Dad came down and did her needed repairs. Again she had to put into Capetown (I acknowledge the enormous courage and ability to get there from Mexico) and her Dad and brother and others fixed the boat while she went sightseeing. I thought that revealed a certain immaturity.

Reading her blogs from Cabo and Capetown, I got the impression that she didn't involve herself much in the maintenance of the vessel and that she really didn't understand the risks she was undertaking. She said all the right words but the tone of her writing and her other actions left me doubting her maturity. She and Jessica Watson were like night and day even with Jessica's collision during her shakedown run. Abby and others sailed the boat to Florida after purchasing it in New England (Rhode Island???? -not sure) then they shipped it to California. But, she never really had any solo experience with what they described somewhere as a "sled". Then, her choice to transit the Southern Ocean at this time of the year was driven, IMO, by the need to be the "youngest around"

Obviously it's easy to be an armchair quarterback and criticize but, I'm afraid, while I'm saddened and concerned for this girl, I'm not completely surprised. I was hoping she would have called it off in Capetown.

I hope that she is well and that she and her parents can find comfort in both their god and the efforts that are now being made on this girl's behalf.

Edited by - John Russell on 06/10/2010 16:42:31

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 18:49:58

The "Open 40" is indeed a sled--a downscaled version of the boats used in the Volvo. This is not a blue-water cruiser--it's a flat-out racer designed to plane off the wind in the Roaring Forties of the Southern Ocean, where the wind goes all the way around the globe without any land interruptions. Indeed it's also designed to get knocked around, but it's also designed for sailors who've been knocked around--a lot!

Everything I've read about these kids, including Zak and Abby, makes me queazy. Somehow they have been brought up with an extreme compulsion to prove themselves as... what??? Abby was in no way ready for this--nor was her equipment--but maybe she thought that because her brother, by some stroke of luck, made it, she HAD to, or she was worth less than he... (?) She "dreamed of it" for 2-3 years... Then her parents bought her a boat and she took off, and then took off again... I hope she enjoyed herself.

Between a few freighters and a Qantas jet, maybe somebody will find her tiny being in the southern Indian Ocean--I have my doubts. (Have any of us tried an MOB drill in 20' seas and 30+ kt. winds? How about a thousand miles out?) The nearest freighters are minimally 40 hours away... A jet can't do anything but hopefully spot her--from 35000 feet where a freighter looks like a paper-clip? Unlikely, I think. I've been wrong before... I hope this is another case.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/10/2010 19:15:12

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 19:39:45

I'm with you, Dave. Zac was in a reinforced Islander 36, and went through the Panama Canal. Jessica was in an S&S 34, a well-found cruiser that has made numerous circumnavigations. Abby's boat was made for speed so she could beat the weather and the record. I do hope she's found, but in any case these parents are . . . something.

Edited by - on

millermg
Navigator

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159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 19:58:15

Reading about the Quantas Jet and the effort going into a rescue reminds me of the controversies we continually have here in the Pacific NW over mountaineering rescues on Mt. Rainier and Mt. Hood. Climbing is another risky outdoor endeavor- and, though this may sound cold, there's been a lot of discussion in the mountaineering community over financial responsibility of these rescues, and even whether or not these rescues should occur at all. The majority of the true mountaineers think it's the responsibility of the climber to understand the risks and NOT expect to be rescued. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to mount a helecopter rescue operation in the Cascade Mountains, I can only imagine what a mulit-national rescue operation like this entails. I don't mean to sound cold and insensitive- my thoughts and prayers are truely with Abby and her family- I only say this because I believe these kids and thier parents do not fully comprehend and- more importanly- accept the risks they are taking. Do these parents really believe if something goes wrong, no worries, someone will rescue them? The southern ocean in June is no playground. I can't imagine the thoughts and regrets that would be going through my head if that were one of my kids out there.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2010 : 20:44:19

My "very good friend" has a son who is cruising through the S. Pacific islands, having started in San Diego on a Baltic 46, headed for New Zealand with two other twenty-something guys. (Ahh, to be twenty-something and single!) They had one 22-day passage, and another 2-week one lies ahead... But what they're doing is CRAZY FUN!! It's not proving anything to anybody, and they're accomplished seamen--one having captained the overall winner of the Newport-Bermuda race and crewed on some Transpacs. They plan to get to Australia and maybe enter the Sydney-Hobart race next year.

Lots of prep... Lots of boat... Lots of fun... No records, and no headlines--just memories for a lifetime!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/10/2010 20:46:24

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 01:07:14

So. . . she's on the boat, which was dismasted in a knockdown. Ships on the way.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 05:54:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by millermg
 Reading about the Quantas Jet and the effort going into a rescue reminds me of the controversies we continually have here in the Pacific NW over mountaineering rescues on Mt. Rainier and Mt. Hood. Climbing is another risky outdoor endeavor- and, though this may sound cold, there's been a lot of discussion in the mountaineering community over financial responsibility of these rescues, and even whether or not these rescues should occur at all. The majority of the true mountaineers think it's the responsibility of the climber to understand the risks and NOT expect to be rescued. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to mount a helecopter rescue operation in the Cascade Mountains, I can only imagine what a mulit-national rescue operation like this entails. I don't mean to sound cold and insensitive- my thoughts and prayers are truely with Abby and her family- I only say this because I believe these kids and thier parents do not fully comprehend and- more importanly- accept the risks they are taking. Do these parents really believe if something goes wrong, no worries, someone will rescue them? The southern ocean in June is no playground. I can't imagine the thoughts and regrets that would be going through my head if that were one of my kids out there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your mountaineers aren't the only ones... We have th esame discussions around here every spring/fall about the kite surfers and ice fishermen. Not nearly as prestigious a sport, but driving out on slush in a pickup truck to drink beer and catch fish just ain't clever.

The consensus around the lake is that the rescued or their estate ought to pay for their extraction.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 05:54:49

I'm glad she's still on the boat. Now, however, somebody is going to risk his life trying to retrieve this "adventurer".

I've given this a bit more thought since hearing she's been found alive. First, this is a good example of over-dependence on technology. I really believe that her mindset was the same as if she was stepping aboard a true to life amusement park ride that had just enough excitement to thrill but its technology would prevent catastrophe.

Second, is this an over-indulged kid whose parents haven't learned that No! is a complete sentence?

Even with all that, one has to applaud her pluck and congratulate her for getting this far. I hope that she is rescued succesfully and the boat scuttled without any injuries to anyone.

Armchair quarterback -- out!

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 05:56:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Even Chance
 So. . . she's on the boat, which was dismasted in a knockdown. Ships on the way.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Lats see, when Robin Lee was de-masted in the Indian, he cobbled together a jury rig and sailed on, what is the difference here? Oh yeah, she chose a boat for speed, and doesn't know how to repair it herself.

Hate to judge as there may be injuries or something, but really - she may be youngest, but she isn't winning points for being the best.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 06:03:47

Just read info on her website. It's a French fishing vessel that's on the way. Will be there tomorrow. Wonder if Daddy is going to write the check for the fishermen's loss of income and expenses?

It said that the rigging is down. I hope she had the ability, knowledge and equipment to cut it loose. Fortunately, it also said she's fine and the weather is abating.

Edited by - John Russell on 06/11/2010 06:05:33

cat30
1st Mate

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73 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 06:19:05

some of you guys are too much. how do you know her sponsors arent paying for her rescue. how do you know if there is enough mast left to jury rig something to keep sailing. how do you know she is a rich spoiled kid. she sailed pretty far under some bad conditions maybe she has some really god sailing skills and knowledge. make some more assumptons without and facts- just shows your own insecurities and prejudices.
she should have stayed home with the girls and played video games and went to the mall like all normal 16 year old girls. pshaw!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 06:31:11

No one knows what the final consequences of this are but I can say I'm sick and tired of other people having to pick up the expense of rescuing people that get in over their head and then cry for help when things don't go right.

If people knew for sure upfront they were going to have to pay for a rescue mission no matter what the cost, maybe some of these stupid record attempts would never happen. I say stupid because it's obvious this was not a well thought out attempt.

IMHO, the parents should be investigated when this is all said and done. As a parent I cannot fathom the idea of letting a 16 year old child (boy or girl) attempt to sail around the world alone. It's insane!

If someone has the maturity (no 16 y.o. is mature enough to sail around the world alone), proper equipment, training, and the ability to even remotely fend for themselves if things don't go as planned I think it's great that someone attempts to push the envelope. As long as they can pay for the rescue mission!

If however, they can't handle problems without calling for daddy they shouldn't be allowed to make the attempt. No new laws need to be put in place. Just extreme peer pressure from the sailing world that this is not a good idea.

Unfortunately it ain't over until it's over! If she was unable to cut the rigging away there's no guarantee that the boat won't sink before they rescue her.

Despite what I've said above, I truly hope and pray that they are able to rescue her.

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 06:34:47

Didn't realize that she was attempting this in an "Open 40". I have no trans-ocean cruising experience, but that sure does not seem like a boat that would take good care of you when things got rough. Hopefully, now that they have found her, they will be able to safely transfer her to the rescuing vessel. Probably not a small feat in the southern ocean in June.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 06:43:25

Cat30 - Because, if you have a boom you can stick upright in the hole left by the mast you deep-sixed, you have something to build a new mast from for a jury rig.

Rule 1 for the adventurer is to be able to improvse a way to get yer but outta there.

In the words of one of my great mentors - "Don't let your lips make a promise yer ass can't keep." Seems to me that is her exact problem. No one is saying she shoulda stayed home, everyone is saying she was ill-equipped (wrt her abilities) for the trip, otherwise she would have chosen an appropriate boat and gear to weather this along with whatever else came up, and recognized its the journey and not the record that matters.

It seems that all her choices are focused on being the fastest & youngest, and that is leading her to making a lot of bad decisions. If folks on shore are pressuring her, then she needs the strength of character to stand up and say no. If she is heading out on her own volition then she needs to better assess her risks and her abilities to handle them.

Edited by - Prospector on 06/11/2010 06:45:13

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 06:49:19

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 07:35:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat30
 some of you guys are too much. how do you know her sponsors arent paying for her rescue. how do you know if there is enough mast left to jury rig something to keep sailing. how do you know she is a rich spoiled kid. she sailed pretty far under some bad conditions maybe she has some really god sailing skills and knowledge. make some more assumptons without and facts- just shows your own insecurities and prejudices.
she should have stayed home with the girls and played video games and went to the mall like all normal 16 year old girls. pshaw!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I guess everybody's right in this discussion. I applaud her ambition and would encourage her adventures.
The big but here is that she demonstrated rather meager preparation for this journey. As a parent, I would insist on far better preparation. Maybe she had more than was mentioned in her website, etc., but the information that has been there said something about "some singlehanding off the California coast". I don't even think it was in Wild Eyes. They only owned the boat from October to January to prepare for this. That included transit time from Florida by freighter! I think I read somewhere on her site that the boat was slipped into the water sometime around Christmas -- a month before departure. My opinion is not that 16 year olds <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> should have stayed home with the girls and played video games and went to the mall like all normal 16 year old girls<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> but rather this 16 y/o appeared to be ill-prepared. I also followed Jessica Watson's circumnav, completed a week before her 17th birthday, and thought her to be a well prepared sailor with a well prepared boat.
As to her being a "rich spoiled kid", those are your words, not mine. I do think this smells of, as my mother would have said: someone with more money than sense.
I don't know if her sponsors are paying the costs of rescue, perhaps they are, and I imagine that the trip is well insured. But, if I were a betting man, I'd bet that the costs will be eaten by the various governments involved. And, a French fisherman.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ....this in an "Open 40". I have no trans-ocean cruising experience, but that sure does not seem like a boat that would take good care of you when things got rough.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Gary, this boat was specifically built for just this purpose - solo circumnavigation racing. The boat was prepared, I'm not sure about the sailor. http://www.abbysunderland.com/abbys-boat.php I find it interesting at the very bottom of the page (looks like a "For Sale" ad) where it said:<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">COMMENTS
As " BTC Velocity " she sailed in and completed the Around Alone 2002 finishing 2nd
2005 and 2007 Bermuda 1-2 (2007 Finished 2nd)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think that gives a nod to the idea that speed and records were too much of a motivator. The big difference is that it was crewed by someone that had the proper preparation to do it.

Edited by - John Russell on 06/11/2010 07:47:44

millermg
Navigator

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159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 07:49:37

Because none of the guys below ever dreamed they had a chance of getting rescued. Shackleton was perhaps history's greatest improvisor when things went bad that year in the south pole, and was in my opinion personally responsible for not only saving his own life, but the lives of most of his crew as well. Perhaps one of the greatest stories ever. That's what he's famous for. And don't forget what happended to Robert Scott...another ill-prepared 'adventurer', done in by bad preparation and bad decisions.<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat30
 some of you guys are too much. how do you know her sponsors arent paying for her rescue. how do you know if there is enough mast left to jury rig something to keep sailing. how do you know she is a rich spoiled kid. she sailed pretty far under some bad conditions maybe she has some really god sailing skills and knowledge. make some more assumptons without and facts- just shows your own insecurities and prejudices.
she should have stayed home with the girls and played video games and went to the mall like all normal 16 year old girls. pshaw!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes! Why do we idolize Sir Francis Chichester and Sir Ernest Shackleton and Joshua Slocum and the Pardeys and Charles Lindbergh, and all the other trailblazers, but we find all sorts of reasons to criticize a young girl and her parents when she wants to blaze her own trail?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 09:12:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
[brYes! Why do we idolize Sir Francis Chichester and Sir Ernest Shackleton and Joshua Slocum and the Pardeys and Charles Lindbergh, and all the other trailblazers, but we find all sorts of reasons to criticize a young girl and her parents when she wants to blaze her own trail?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think we all agree sailing is a life-long learning experience and that with age comes wisedom . . . at her age - how much learning and life has Abbey experienced compared to the distinguished gentlemen above when they embarked on their adventures?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 09:27:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Shackleton was perhaps history's greatest improvisor when things went bad that year in the south pole, and was in my opinion personally responsible for not only saving his own life, but the lives of most of his crew as well. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually there were no lives lost on the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Trans-Antarctic_Expedition"]Imperial Trans-Antarctic Expedition[/url], at least none from Shackelton's crew, three crewman from the Aurora died, but that wasn't his ship. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend [url="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/5199"]South![/url] about the expedition.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 09:55:55

Abby's an amazing young lady. To undertake such a voyage and get as far as she has is a wonder. I, for one, will buy her book.

Hopefully her difficulties will remind other teens contemplating such a voyage of the risks inherent in such an adventure.

Edited by - windsong on 06/11/2010 09:58:19

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 10:25:27

I think I'd want something a bit more stout, with heavier rigging designed for ocean cruising, say a Cheoy Lee (spelling?) and I'd carry a spare boom and other critical replacement spare parts.
Hey. I wonder if a slightly oversized Sunfish rig could be carried as an emergency sail? A lateen rig would be easy to set up!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4306 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 11:29:53

I haven't really ben keeping up with her voyage and I really don't know much about her.

How much experience does she have sailing solo for long distances? Has she done anything like California to Hawaii or Washington state to Southern Cal? Something to get some experience in better conditions?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/11/2010 : 11:35:18

Appears it's a total dis-masting.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/slideshow/ALeqM5hho9HeUIufE-e94A4h33vE8jokfw?index=0

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/slideshow/ALeqM5hho9HeUIufE-e94A4h33vE8jokfw?index=0

Edited by - GaryB on 06/11/2010 11:37:26

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