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Asymmetrical spinnaker, standard rig question

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/07/2010 : 14:44:12

For those of you that have an asymmetrical spinnaker, and a standard rig, what is the measurement of the luff?

I recently acquired an asymmetrical spinnaker. The luff of the sail is 30'9" and with the pennant for the chute the length is 31'7". I don't have a spinnaker halyard block rigged yet, so I raised it using my spare jib halyard. With the tack all the way down at the stem and the jib halyard raised as much as possible, it seems very slack. Since I have zero experience with these type of sails, I am not sure if the sail is just too large or if the slack would be normal.

Of course, the second question is, If the sail is indeed too large, is it worth it to try to have it modified or just sell it and get the correct size.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2010 : 14:59:03

Hi Davy,
According to thesailwarehouse.com the luff length should be 30 feet; leech at 25.5 and foot at 18 ft. So your sail probably is somewhat oversized for your rig - but not excessively so.
How much breeze did you have?
When I fly my assym, I rig an adjustable tack control line (rigged aft to the cockpit). With this line, I can pull the tack down for close reaching and let the tack rise up for broad reaching. Broad reaching in 8 to 10 knots of breeze, the tack is about 6 or 7 feet up from the stem fitting. This makes the sail shape nice and round.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - Bill Holcomb on 07/07/2010 15:03:35

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2010 : 16:55:51

Thanks Bill, I did not let the sail fill, I was just playing around with it at the dock.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When I fly my assym, I rig an adjustable tack control line (rigged aft to the cockpit). With this line, I can pull the tack down for close reaching and let the tack rise up for broad reaching. Broad reaching in 8 to 10 knots of breeze, the tack is about 6 or 7 feet up from the stem fitting. This makes the sail shape nice and round.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is the part that concerns me. The photos I see of other cat25s flying an asymm have the tack at least above the bow pulpit. This sail is very slack with it tacked down all the way at the stem fitting. I will need to get the correct parts and let it fill.

If it is too large is it worth the hassle to have the sail modified?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2010 : 11:43:04

If your asymm is only about 9" too tall, you probably wouldn't notice anything wrong when flying it. The sail forms a giant balloon shape off your bow, and with a tack line, like Bill mentioned, you have the ability to adjust the shape by moving the foot up or down 3, or 4 or 5 feet.

I think it would work fine as is.

I've found that the tack line needs to be handled with a winch. It pulls a significant part of the weight of the boat.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2010 : 13:11:50

Thanks for your replies.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If your asymm is only about 9" too tall, you probably wouldn't notice anything wrong when flying it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is really my question. I am trying to determine if the sail is 9" larger or 1'7" larger. In other words, when the luff is considered 30' long, does that measurement also include the cable that the chute is attached to. Or, is that the length of the sail not including that cable.

The cable that is part of the chute on this sail adds 10" to the total length

Edited by - Davy J on 07/08/2010 13:13:45

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2010 : 13:46:11

Lose the pennant.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2010 : 14:19:18

Hi Davy,
You will want the tack line... but disregard it in the measurement.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

calden
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2010 : 14:51:24

Hi Bill:

Carlos from Bitter End. Good informative topic - I think I may have scored an assymetrical spinnaker with my Catalina 25 purchase. Have not flown it yet. It's either an AS or a drifter.

I'll look at your boat tomorrow when I'm up there and see how you have the tack line rigged.

Carlos

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2010 : 15:59:53

Maybe I have something not standard on a spinnaker. Hopefully a photograph might help.

This cable is connected to the head of the sail, not the tack, all of this is under the chute. There is is a swivel connected to the head of the sail. A cable 10" long has an eye at the top. Connected to this is a block for the line that controls the chute. The block is at the top of the cable, so removing it would also remove the chute. Does any of this look normal? Anyhow the question remains, is this equipment part of the luff measurement.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 07:45:05

Hi Davy,
The 10" cable and pulley look like they are for a dousing sock (flasher stasher, chute scoop, etc.)... but the sock and uphaul/downhaul line is missing. If you don't have the dousing sock, I'd say remove the 10" cable thing and secure the halyard directly to the sail's head.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 07:46:05

What you are describing seems to be the spinnaker sock mechanism.

On my sail:
The head of the sail is permanently attached to the head of the sock. The sock is lifted upwards by the block and the loop of line that connects the hoop at the foot of the sock to the block at the head. The loop of line is loose at the foot of the sock.

Sitting on the foredeck, I connect the ring at the head of the sail to the halyard and hoist the sock and sail to the masthead by the spin halyard, and cleat off the halyard. I attach the tack of the spin to the pennant and attach that to a line that runs through a block at the stem to a turning block on the genoa track and to a winch on the cockpit coaming. Then I cleat the working spin sheet through the spin block at the aft end of the genoa track to have it at its approximate working length, based on experience. To fly the asymmetrical spinnaker, I hoist the sock pulling down on one side of that loop of line inside the sock that reaches down to the deck.

When the sock is hoisted the spinnaker fills, and we're off! Further trimming is then done to the sheet and the tack line as needed.

On your sail:
A short pennant at the head of the sail is probably an integral part of the spinnaker-sock configuration. My asymm has a woven nylon strap holding the head of the sail to the stainless ring at the head of the sock. That ring is hoisted by the spin halyard.

Once you get it flying, you're going to love it!

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 08:11:03

And I would not want to fly my asymmetrical spinnaker without a dousing sock. With a sock, it's possible single-handed. Without a sock it would need either crew or the skill and determination of a JimB!

Maybe Jim will give his advice, too.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 08:22:47

Thanks Bill and John.

And yes, the dousing sock and uphaul/downhaul line are there. I pulled them up and over so that you could see what is attached to the head of the sail.

But I am still wondering, is this extra length of cable considered part of the luff measurement of the spinnaker?

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 09:06:37

Hi Davy
As I said before, disregard the cable. It won't make that much difference to you when the sail is filled.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 09:37:40

Thanks Bill.

Went out at lunch and let it fly.

Wind wasn't coming from the best direction, but I did get it to fill.
I have the tack running through my anchor roller, and the jib halyard raised all the way up. You can see how close to the stem I have it.

Now a new question; It seemed like I could not get the last few feet of the spinnaker to come out. Also, the sock wanted to hang-up on the way up? Normal?

Also, can anyone tell me anything about the spinnaker? I know zero about spinnakers.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/09/2010 : 11:16:40

[url="http://www.ukhalsey.com/LearningCenter/encyclopedia/encyclopedia4c.asp"]Here's [/url]a link to the informative UK Halsey Encyclopedia of Sails, and its chapter on spinnakers.

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svparable
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Response Posted - 07/19/2010 : 18:08:19

Davy, is the sail working well for you? Someone is selling a tall rig spinnaker with the same dimensions so I was wondering what your experience has been since I too have a std rig. Thanks.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 05:35:56

No, I have not rigged a spinnaker halyard block yet. But I think, unless the price is really good, I would wait for a sligthly smaller sized sail.

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/20/2010 : 11:00:06

When I hoist my sock it seems to cover about the top 12" of the head of the asymm. That little bit is not much sail area that remains non-functional, but the benefit of using the sock is significant.

Edited by - on

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