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Time to Sell?

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CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/11/2010 : 09:30:20

I am facing a huge dilemma regarding whether to keep my 1983 Catalina 25.
Let me preface this story with the fact that I live in New Jersey, hence the $$ amounts.

I bought the boat back in 2006 for $4,500 and have put close to $10,000 in upgrades. (New sails, new motor, electrical, BBQ, hatch screens--you know all that expensive marine stuff). My storage fees run about $3,200 a year (summer slip and winter storage).
This year we got the boat in the water in April and have yet to go out in it.

We can only sail on weekends or when we take days off. We keep the boat on the northern part of Barnegat Bay. There is heavy (sometimes insane) motor boat traffic where we sail and this limits the times we can go out and enjoy ourselves. It also gets VERY hot here and sailing is very uncomfortable through most of July and August. (during the day) The best times to sail are the spring and fall.

We missed the spring sailing season because of a busy family event schedule and motor problems. In fact we are STILL having motor problems. It started with needing a new starting solenoid. Then we needed a new fuel line connector and now it looks like we will need a carb cleaning. $$$$ cha-ching$$$ No sailing yet in 2010.

My question to this forum is:
When do you know it's time to sell the boat you have lovingly cared for and fixed up?

P.S. I bought a little Sunfish that I have sailed in six times this year.

"Mysterious" 1983 C25 SR/SK #3655
Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 09:40:44

The same time that it's time to reef. If you think you should, it's probably past time to do it. Others will disagree.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 09:59:41

Keep the boat, move out of New Jersey and come to Michigan.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 10:09:13

Keep the boat. Learn to fix things yourself, it's a lot cheaper, more cost effective and it's a safety issue. Family schedules can always be changed, after all it's YOUR life, not someone else's. It's not an investment, it's a way of life.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 10:43:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CateP
 I am facing a huge dilemma regarding whether to keep my 1983 Catalina 25.
Let me preface this story with the fact that I live in New Jersey, hence the $$ amounts.

I bought the boat back in 2006 for $4,500 and have put close to $10,000 in upgrades. (New sails, new motor, electrical, BBQ, hatch screens--you know all that expensive marine stuff). My storage fees run about $3,200 a year (summer slip and winter storage).
This year we got the boat in the water in April and have yet to go out in it.

We can only sail on weekends or when we take days off. We keep the boat on the northern part of Barnegat Bay. There is heavy (sometimes insane) motor boat traffic where we sail and this limits the times we can go out and enjoy ourselves. It also gets VERY hot here and sailing is very uncomfortable through most of July and August. (during the day) The best times to sail are the spring and fall.

We missed the spring sailing season because of a busy family event schedule and motor problems. In fact we are STILL having motor problems. It started with needing a new starting solenoid. Then we needed a new fuel line connector and now it looks like we will need a carb cleaning. $$$$ cha-ching$$$ No sailing yet in 2010.

My question to this forum is:
When do you know it's time to sell the boat you have lovingly cared for and fixed up?

P.S. I bought a little Sunfish that I have sailed in six times this year.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're not going to get your ROI on the 14.5K so what can you do to make it easier to sail? Move, move your boat closer etc?

How do you find time for the sunfish yet not your C 25?

Weekday night sails are the best in the summer.

As far as your outboard I can totally commiserate with you as I just replaced the fuel line and everything else has been checked so now it's down to the carb.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 16:24:32

Further thought:
The reason why we haven't gone pout once this year is because we started having motor problems in May, had to wait 3 weeks for a part, still no go in June, another 2 weeks for a part, into July now and the carb probably needs cleaning.
Basically no go because of motor problems.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 17:28:05

Is your outboard repairman reputable and knowledgeable about your engine?

I wasted 3 months and about $1000 bringing my Honda to a supposedly reputable shop at a well-known marine supply store, but the repair guy was a jerk. I should have stuck with my local Honda repair shop, even if they were not interested in boats - only motorcycle engines and outboard engines. They always got the job done right.

But I lucked out when a friend loaned me his 2.5 hp dinghy engine for those 3 months. That was all I needed to get in and out of the slip.

PCP777 is right - sailing at night is wonderful in hot weather, like in NJ or in MD or in Texas where he is.

If you choose to sail at night more often when the conditions are better, just have your spotlight and your horn ready to fend off drunken powerboaters.

And if you don't have a bimini, get one, too. Summertime sailing with some shade is so much more comfortable when it's really hot.

It seems that you really enjoy sailing. You now own 2 boats and you've gone out in your Sunfish. So you've answered your own question. You just need some work-arounds.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 18:03:58

Short answer: I agree with John R's replay.

Long answer: I too live in an expensive area and have invested, or spent, or dumped way too much into a toy that is used way too little. While I COULD fix many things, between time commitments and wanting to use the boat as much as the few times I can will allow I have spent more than probably many to do some simple things that I know I have the skill to handle, but not the time (or patience). The reason I own this (and a couple other) boats is that I enjoy the time that I work and play on them. When I no longer can either afford the pastime or have interest in it, I will sell. And when I sell I know I will financially loose a bundle but the time will be right and the price vs cost will not be the issue.

Summer is always hot -- motor boat traffic is problematic in most areas. Possible if you move where you keep her to another part of Barnegat or a port that gives you easy ocean access you will enjoy that part more. Think through each issue and what reasonable options exist that could remedy them. But, I think that as John pointed out, when you think you have to then you probably do need face the challenge of selling.

Edited by - on

cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 18:54:56

Two questions:

1) which motor do you have that you're already having significant problems with it

2) Do you singlehand and if so, have you rigged your boat to make it easier- i find it interesting that you've been out six times on your sunfish but none on your C-25.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5362 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 20:21:21

I have a 16 foot trailer boat (an AMF Alcort Sunbird) that I can single hand, or fit myself, one or two other crew in. It's a centerboard boat that needs a 3HP kicker. There are lots of similar boats you can find on Craig's list and elsewhere.

The nice thing about a trailer boat is you can frequent bays and protected areas that many powerboats can't reach. You can sail lakes and impounds and mix it up a lot. If you like, you can sail, power, swim and fish.

The reason I moved up to a 25 footer is that I wanted to take longer daysails, do overnights and 4-5 day sails. I knew it would cost more $$$, but it was what I wanted. I didn't want a 30, 35 or 40 footer because of the astronomical costs.

I also wanted to have my boat set up and ready to go from the marina, and didn't want to have to set up the boat every time I wanted to sail.

You have the sunfish, which you may find easy to launch, gives you access to less busy waters, and allows you to change it up as you wish.

The reason I preferred the Sunbird to a Sunfish is you have a six foot long, comfortable cockpit, a cuddy for storage of your cooler, you can rig it with a furler and you can douse the main and jib & drop anchor if you want to snack or fish.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 20:31:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cks
 Two questions:

1) which motor do you have that you're already having significant problems with it

2) Do you singlehand and if so, have you rigged your boat to make it easier- i find it interesting that you've been out six times on your sunfish but none on your C-25.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The motor is a Tohatsu 9.8 electric start , long shaft.
The reason why we haven't gone out this year is because the motor has been giving us problems since May. I am having a firm discussion with the guy who has worked on it so far.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2010 : 21:18:10

I've sailed Indiscipline 6 times this week! Boat ownership is an outrageous drain of money if you don't go sailing often. For what you are spending you could charter a 40 footer in US Virgin Islands once per year.

I know people who are paying $350/month for slip fees and come twice per year for a long weekend and party in the slip (never go out).

They could stay in the best hotel in town for what this is costing them.

Sell.

Or buy a new motor.

Edited by - on

cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 03:41:18

For me, if i had the money for the annual fees-storage, slip/mooring, basic maintenance (no upgrades), selling would not be an option. I think you realize that you won't get more than what you originally paid for the boat in this market(especially with a bum motor). Perhaps you should bite the bullet and replace the outboard (trade it in)? It sounds like the extra $1000 or so you'd be out would help you salvage your original $10,000 investment in addition to giving you some sailing stories and memories (priceless).

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 06:54:22

Although small outboards are relatively problem free and inexpensive to repair, sometimes they can put a hurting on your wallet. But they really aren't all that difficult to understand in most circumstances and doing your own repairs will save you big $$ as Stu mentioned. I was pretty ignorant of them until I started watching my brother and asking questions. He informed me that when they act up almost always it's either going to be a "not getting" gas, electric or air problem. Now the 4 strokes are more involved but this premise still holds true. Find a friend that knows something about them and learn, you can do it! And then you KNOW the work is done correctly, feel safer and are ready for anything that happens while out.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 09:05:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CateP
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cks
 Two questions:

1) which motor do you have that you're already having significant problems with it

2) Do you singlehand and if so, have you rigged your boat to make it easier- i find it interesting that you've been out six times on your sunfish but none on your C-25.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The motor is a Tohatsu 9.8 electric start , long shaft.
The reason why we haven't gone out this year is because the motor has been giving us problems since May. I am having a firm discussion with the guy who has worked on it so far.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do you HAVE to use the motor to get in and get out? Maybe you can move to a slip where you don't need the engine?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 09:21:21

Not to be rude or whatever, but are you sure you are operating the OB properly? It took me 2 years to figure out the trick to starting mine... which turned out to be on pg 2 of the owner's manual.

In that 2 years I blew about $1000 getting it repaired, only to have the shop keep telling me it was running fine, the PO telling me he'd never had trouble with it, and other people at the marina wondering how an OB could give a guy so much trouble.

I'm not running down your skills or anything, but I found out the hard way that a lot of people are willing to take your money and laugh at you before they give you the help you need. In my case the remote gear shift needs to be disconnected and the throttle engaged before the starter cord is pulled in order to get the engine enough gas to start up. I was engaging th ethrottle with the remote hooked up, which put the neutral start override in killing the starter, or leaving it in neutral and trying to start the engine without fuel. Even though this sounds like a common sense thing, I had never had an OB before and couldn't figure otu the problem until I noticed the quick release on the transmission cable at the end of last season and had an awakening. IN th emeantime I paid for the OB shop to:

- rebuild the lower end unit
- tune the engine
- rebuild the carb
- Replace the atlas gear on the twist throttle

Each time I sent in teh engine I lost between 1-3 weeks of sailing time, and paid dearly. Experience is expensive.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 09:53:55

I've decided to sell. The motor problem is because we didn't run the motor dry after using it and the carb got gunked up. Also too much sitting around.

This is a very hard decision to make, but the cost is much too high for the amount of use and pleasure we are getting out of our boat now.

Thanks for all the great input here.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 11:45:30

People's lives, loves, passions and priorities change with time.

Two happiest days . . .

Edited by - OJ on 07/12/2010 11:49:05

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 11:49:42

Bummer. But someone's gonna get a nice boat. All the best.

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 12:53:29

I keep my boat on the Barnegat bay for much less money. I am at Laurel Harbor marina in Lanoka Harbor (right near marker #40 south of Good Luck Pt.) Total annual cost is just under $2000 for the slip, haul-out and winter storage. Cost might be low because the boat has been in the same slip since it was purchased new by my father-in-law. Also, this is a no-frills marina. Aside from reasonably clean bathrooms, there is NOTHING else going on at the marina.

I can testify to the fact that the traffic on the weekends is insane. It was a bit better when gas prices were higher last summer.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 17:33:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pfduffy
 I keep my boat on the Barnegat bay for much less money. I am at Laurel Harbor marina in Lanoka Harbor (right near marker #40 south of Good Luck Pt.) Total annual cost is just under $2000 for the slip, haul-out and winter storage. Cost might be low because the boat has been in the same slip since it was purchased new by my father-in-law. Also, this is a no-frills marina. Aside from reasonably clean bathrooms, there is NOTHING else going on at the marina.

I can testify to the fact that the traffic on the weekends is insane. It was a bit better when gas prices were higher last summer.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We thought about going further south in Barnegat for a much less expensive marina. We were just told today that the summer slip fee and storage was going to go up again. (Currently pay $3600 for the year) Laurel Harbor sounds very reasonable and is tempting, BUT we're about a hour away from there. I'm afraid we would use the boat less than we do now.

I hate this situation. I am crying while creating my web site to sell the boat.

Edited by - CateP on 07/12/2010 17:35:01

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 19:37:13

Many on this site have long "commutes" to their boat. My wife grew up with a 45 minute drive to their boat. I think that, if it were me, I would be focusing on the following: 1. Get the engine to work reliably -- I would find the nearest Tohatsu dealer even if it were a day's drive OR the best GD marine mechanic with Mercury/Nissan knowledge and tell him to fix it! and if that means changing the gas twice a season, so be it a three gallon tank is not that expensive. 2. find a cheaper marina hopefully with less power boat traffic, and finally, commit one day per weekend (or week) to SAILING. If after one season of you feel the same, then sell!

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 20:11:46

This sounds like us!
We have a C250WB 2005, we try to take the boat out every month, but miss a few. 10days onboard in June and already getting ready for a sail in July and another in August.

So the the boat spends most of her time on the trailer alongside our house. Seasons? What are they, and who cares, it's getting out on the boat that makes it all worth while.

Keep the boat and sail it when you can, but try to make it more often.

Paul

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2010 : 20:56:59

There's a nice boat for every circumstance, and the C-25 doesn't appear to be the one for your circumstance. It was perfect for us, but then "us" became "me" and other things changed... Passage languished in an expensive slip... Now she's the right boat for Bruce "Voyager" Ross, and I've moved on to another nice boat that fits the circumstance.

Life's a journey--don't get stuck and don't look back.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2010 : 05:40:14

CateP - before paying for a carb cleaning, try putting a 1/4 cup of carb cleaner in your next tank of gas, and then go for a long, slow motor up and down the bay. Our performance increased considerably after doing this.

YMMV.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2010 : 05:56:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 CateP - before paying for a carb cleaning, try putting a 1/4 cup of carb cleaner in your next tank of gas, and then go for a long, slow motor up and down the bay. Our performance increased considerably after doing this.

YMMV.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Right now the motor doesn't even start, but when we DO get the carb cleaned we will do things differently.

Edited by - on

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