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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

250 or 25, which would you rather have?

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banjoman
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/13/2010 : 20:15:05

OK I know I'm probably going to start something here but...I'm going to get a 25 foot catalina. Have had a Hunter 260 and a Seaward 25. Sold the Seaward 7 years ago when we had two babies in diapers at the same time.. you get the picture, right? Anyway, kids are 7 and 8 years old now and big enough to go sailing w/ me. I want a boat that I can trailer. I drive a Chev. suburban. I want as much room as I can get and still trailer. Will haul boat 15 hours away (south florida)about 2 to 3 times a year. Will keep at local lake but pull and sail other local waters a few times a year. I like the fact the Catalina's have so much support. Seems like the best boat for the money etc. Now I seem to like the older style look and feel of the 25's but not sure. Big question is which would you rather have and why? A 25 or 250. By the way, both will have either a swing or wing keel. i didn't like the water ballast I had in the Hunter 260 so don't plan on going back to that.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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Response Posted - 07/13/2010 : 20:20:51

This is the wrong forum for this ?.

Shoulda been in the General Forum.

Buy a C42 and spend more time on the boat and avoid trailering. :):):)

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2010 : 21:15:51

25s sail better, faster and much much cheaper. Better deck layout in my opinion. Overlapping jibs. 250s have a real nice interior, really like it. I think build quality on the 250 is a little less (voids in gelcoat, etc.)

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 02:53:49

C-250's have the enclosed head, which may be important for your family. C-25's have a cabin plan with the possibility of using a queen size air mattress. I'd say you should buy a C-42. Then you don't need an air mattress.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 06:12:18

They both have their plusses and minuses. The 250 has an open cabin below (no bulkheads dividing it) so it may feel a bit larger. It has the enclosed head, as John pointed out. On the other hand, the C25 has a more traditional feel to it with lots of teak to maintain. I bought my 250 simply because it was a newer boat and won't require any makeovers any time soon. The 25s are reaching an age that, for many, will require major updating. For example, the interior cushions will cost around $1,000. (Although, there's a real sweet 25 currently in the swap meet that's in New Jersey and the current owner has already done the makeover. I don't think it has a trailer, though.) http://web.me.com/poolec/Mysterious_For_Sale/Home.html

If you're truly going to be a "trailer sailor" I'd recommend the 250 water ballast. It simply weighs less(no keel), is easier to haul around and isn't quite as high on the trailer. However, I REALLY

think you should buy my 250 wing keel that's currently listed in the swap meet.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21810

To be absolutely frank, I don't consider my boat a trailer sailor. It is simply transportable on a trailer. But, that may well be true for either choice. The time involved in rigging and launching will limit the amount of time you'll actually get aboard for that afternoon sail

Where are you located? If you're anywhere near Sandusky, Ohio I'd be happy to take you out for a few hours and let you experience a 250. I might be able to get another forum member a few slips away from me to let you on his C25 to compare them side-by-side.

Oh, BTW, the configuration of each boat might also influence your decision. The WB version of the 250 has a higher cabin sole to accomodate the ballast tanks thereby decreasing head room a little bit. There are several interiors for the 25 and each has its own challenges and rewards.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/14/2010 06:26:36

OJ
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Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 07:51:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 Buy a C42 and spend more time on the boat and avoid trailering. :):):)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Buy a C25 with a trailer and see more places

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redeye
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Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 08:01:48

I'd much rather have the 250 simply because of the swimming access, but I love the 25 I have.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 09:48:37

I tend to look at the safety aspects of a boat. The C25 is heavier and probably more stable in a blow. The 250 is a lighter, light air boat. The C25 also has weather decks.....of a sort, so you don't have to get on the highest part to the boat, the cabin top, to go forward. The corrolary is that the 250 has much more interior volume to accomodate the family.

The C25 tall rig is a good all-round sailer but the mast is longer and more robust therefor heavier and slightly more difficult to raise.
You'll need to fabricate an "A" frame or gin pole to assist getting the mast raised. The 250 comes with a mast raising device. Both are cumbersome to trailer but the 250 is probably less so. You need to make sure you have a trailer that has a tongue extension for shallow ramps.

I've had my C25 for 22 years and wouldn't trade it for a 250. A C30 yes, but not a 250.

Edited by - on

banjoman
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 15:20:12

aeckhart,

Anything you dislike about the tall rig and wish you had a standard rig? I'm looking pretty hard and want to make sure I pull the trigger on the right boat the first time.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 15:52:44

There are 2 basic issues that sometimes cause complaints about the tall rig. In order to allow for a taller sail, the mast is 2 feet longer and that's not a problem. But, the boom is also a foot lower making the luff of the mains'l 3 feet longer. That sometimes causes issues with headroom in the cockpit and difficulty with installation of a Bimini.

The other issue is that the tall rig was designed for sailing in areas with predominantly light winds. It is, by design a light wind sail plan. When the wind picks up, you may have to reef sooner. If given a choice, I think I would pass on a tall rig in favor of a standard rig but that's really personal preference and area dependent.

I don't agree that the 250 is a "lighter, light air boat". At least, the wing keel version is not significantly lighter. The water ballast version is lighter when the ballast tanks are empty but I understand that they hold roughly 200 gallons of water making for 1600Lbs. of ballast and it is better distributed giving the WB version a bit of a full keel feel. That's more than 250 wing keel by a bit and right in line with the C25. But I will agree that the 250 has its challenges. I think the reason for this is the high freeboard rather than the weight of the boat. It is just a different hull design. It actually sails more efficiently standing up at around 10 degrees of heel. If you like to put the rails in the water you can, but you just won't go as fast.

I agree with Al, I wouldn't trade one for the other either but, each has its own plusses.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/14/2010 15:56:49

pastmember
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Response Posted - 07/14/2010 : 21:24:21

25 for sailors, 250 for families.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 07:19:36

I wouldn't even trade my 89 C-25 for a brand new 250. Unless I was going to sell it and pocket the extra money by buying another 89 25

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 07:37:01

The 89 certainly is the cream of the crop for 25's.

Edited by - on

andy
Navigator

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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 08:59:02

I'm in complete agreement with John, Dave and Frank...I owned a '95 C250 #146 (water ballast) for two seasons (2001,2002). There is no comparison in sailing quality with my '87 C25... the 250 WB is ok in light air but way too tender for my taste in anything over 12kts. Sail controls are minimal. I personally don't care for water ballasted boats. Now John's wing keel is a different animal. I'll bet she's a lot stiffer and a sweet sail.

That being said, a 250 can be trailer sailed...figure about 45 min to launch and an hour + to recover and get started down the road. I speak from experience... that hour after a day of sailing or racing in the sun really sucks.

My boat is a tall rig and I don't consider it a trailer boat. It takes 2 rides a year... one up to the lake in may...one back in Oct. The tall rig mast is significantly heavier and therefore more difficult to step, especially on the trailer. If you're going to trailer sail, definitely get a standard rig.

The tall rig does have an advantage in light air (obviously) but it's no issue in a blow. The C25 is a headsail driven boat. In June, we were in a regatta with constant 20Kt and gusts as high as 31(recorded). We went with a blade sail (no reef) and the boat was smokin'.

The 110 was WAY too much canvas.

Edited by - andy on 07/15/2010 09:26:59

aeckhart
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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 11:03:01

Except for the issue of raising the mast, and even at that I have been able to raise it by myself, I have no problems with the tall rig.
Even the low spar has not been a problem, at least from a skippers standpoint since I'm usualley ducking under the main sheet in a tack anyway. In fact, that is the only issue I have with the boat - bad mainsheet traveler design, and that's a problem on all Catalina 25's.

It is also a fact that you must reef earlier with the tall rig than with the standard rig. I added an enlarged roach on a new main I bought three years ago which has exaserbated the problem somewhat and causes the roach to hang up on the backstay in light air. The boat really moves in anything under 12 knots of wind though. Add an asymetrical spinnaker and you can give most boats a good run (PHRF), if you can sail the boat to it's potential.

That's racing. You're into family sailing and trailering. The 250, with it's increased interior room and easier mast raising, may be better for you. The cost of the 250 may be a show-stopper though. You can get a C25 standard/tall rig for significantly less than a 250. When you add a tow vehicle the savings would be worthwhile.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 12:38:12

Banjoman, I got a newer C250 as I too, like others, wanted something I didn't have to work on as I just dont have the time. A newer boat affords that. I love the catbird seats and openness down below. It is also nice having an enclosed head for the ladies. I must say I like the "traditional looks" of the 25's better than the C250's.
Someone mentioned the C250 is more family oriented but I think the 25 is as it has an enclosed sleeping quarters which affords more privacy for parents.
Either way, these are great boats and as you can see, our forum is unmatched. No other manufacturer or size even comes close to us! Where else can you find this kind of support and talk to fellow Catalina owners. We offer quality in both our boats and membership.
As a side note, any reason you are not going back to the Seaward? either a 26 or 32. I did look at them prior to buying my C250 and loved that boat. Cost was the primary reason I didnt.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 07/15/2010 12:45:48

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 13:35:54

Which one should you buy? Each boat owner is going to prefer the boat they have.

We looked at the C25s and they are nice boats. We bought a C250 wing keel because it has a spacious cabin, enclosed head, large cockpit, transom cutout for swim/dink access, very large aft berth, no teak to maintain and, being newer, has less overall maintenance. We're very happy with our C250 both for lake sailing and going on 2 week cruises in the San Juans.

Have fun with whatever you get!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/15/2010 14:05:05

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 13:59:55

In general, the C25 will cost less to purchase, even with upgrades, than a C250; the tall rig should be considered if your sailing environment is predominately light air and your trailering will be minimal. Allow at least 2 hours on each end for rigging/derigging. If, as you indicated in your original post, you intend to sail different waters, i.e. a fair amount of trailering, forget the tall rig and focus on a swing or wing keel boat. If I was going to do a LOT of trailering the boat, I would think about the water ballast C250, or maybe even a somewhat smaller boat.

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Jefffriday
Navigator

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USA
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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 14:55:12

Whichever you decide, get a wing Keel, the extra weight towing won't be a beg deal, and the sailing qualities are well worth it. Of course the fin is better yet but then the launching is more problematic. We have 3 25's and 3 250's in our club. I like them all, except the swing Keel 25. I have know 2 owners of swings, both have had issues with the trunk repair (yes, if everything had been done right it would not have been a problem, but...) then there was the swinger that got knocked down in a blow on lake Dillon, just over the hill. went over far enough for the the keel to fall back into the retracted position, broke right on through, the boat sank really quickly, 3 in the cabin did not get out...

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 17:44:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">then there was the swinger that got knocked down in a blow on lake Dillon<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Are you sure that that isn't a "dockside myth" - I couldn't find anything in several internet searches, and I suspect that there would be some record if three people died. There is a myth on a local lake about a Cal 25 being struck by lightning and getting a substandard repair and then sold to a hapless buyer. No records and nobody with firsthand knowledge - never happened.

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bigelowp
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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 19:50:30

I think it will boil down to two things; what your "gut" says it likes and economics. From all reports it seems that the 250 is a better trailer sailor than the 25. But, the 25 is less expensive. So the first question is what is your budget. The second is how many times will you be "trailering" it.

I have a 25 and really can not imagine seriously trying to trailer her frequently. I know folks here do it, but for me, the time it would take to rig and de-rig the 25 would really make day sailing difficult when added to trailering to the location. For me, I would be looking at a Catalina 22 for serious trailer sailing. I can not comment ont he 250 other than say it appears to have far more interior room and being a newer boat should have fewer major maintenance issues.

If you can meet some owbers and see their boats it may help you make the "gut" preference decision. However even then the pocketbook may dictate. In any case getting their is half the fun, so enjoy trying boat out abd welcome to the Catalina family!

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 07/15/2010 : 19:53:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">then there was the swinger that got knocked down in a blow on lake Dillon<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Are you sure that that isn't a "dockside myth" - I couldn't find anything in several internet searches, and I suspect that there would be some record if three people died.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It happened--I read the news stories, probably about 8-9 years ago. The boat had a way too many people aboard--I recall 13-14--a night-time party. It wasn't the fault of the C-25.

Regarding John's ballast figures, the water-ballast might be comparable to a C-25 swing (1500#) or fin (1900#), but the ballast in the keel has the benefit of a substantial "lever arm". A ballast tank in the hull has a very short "arm".

My feeling about "trailer sailing" (one-day launch-sail-retrieve) is that the C-25 is not the boat for that--the effort to set up and take down the rig will soon dissuade you from using the boat. The C-22 is more like it--one person can rig and launch in probably 20 minutes. The C-250 may be somewhere in between, but I'd check it out by watching the whole operation before jumping in--if you really plan to trailer-sail her. Either boat can be great for "transporting" to a venue where you will sail her for a few days or longer, and both can let you avoid marina fees for winter storage (although I stored my C-25 fin in marinas).

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/15/2010 20:06:02

mrapkins
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Response Posted - 07/16/2010 : 05:38:45

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watercayman
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Response Posted - 07/16/2010 : 08:28:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 (Although, there's a real sweet 25 currently in the swap meet that's in New Jersey and the current owner has already done the makeover. I don't think it has a trailer, though.) http://web.me.com/poolec/Mysterious_For_Sale/Home.html

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow. Banjoman - if you decide on a C25, that one is a beauty and going to be really hard to beat value for $$.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 07/16/2010 : 20:32:43

OK, I want to read more. What is your search criteria? I've phrased it many ways and get nothing.

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 07/17/2010 : 07:26:28

We bought our C-25 after comparing to C-27's. our first thought was that we wanted to have a trailerable. Now I realize that for us that reallyu shouldn't have been a consideration, and the boat we bought (fin keel) on the stand it came on (cradle) isn't anyway. Lucky I didn't out out the extra cash for a trailer etc.

When we bought we didn't even look at the 250, not that we were avoiding it, just that all of them were too new to have depreciated to our price point.

I finally got around to walking through a 250 at the boat show the year before last. Our local dealer had a water ballast boat in display. I walked in, felt like the floor was trying to mate with the ceiling, and walked away happy that I had bought a 25.

Being that the 250 is an "open concept" from the companionway to the bow below decks, I am not sure where you throw the duffle bags etc. that are prone to flying around the cabin on each tack. We put ours up there allong with the sleeping bags, and a handful of other rolly-bouncy things, then shut the door and forget about them.

For being a family boat, the C-25 works well if you leave the modern sales literature at the dock and take yourself back 30 years to when teh boats were built (and marketed) as a family escape pod. We have let feature creep, marketing, and envy drive us to longer, beamier, more equipped boats that make sailors focus less on the essence of what they are doing and more on the bling they are taking across the lake. I learned this the hard way after paying to refurb all my instruments, only to lose them all, then realize I was sailing better and enjoying myself more without fixating on what the windspeed & direction indicators were telling me.

Of course a 30' boat would be nice, but reality says that the C-25 is a "right-sized" boat for me, right now. (Subject to change, YMMV)

Edited by - Prospector on 07/17/2010 07:29:53

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