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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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hinmo
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248 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 14:23:17

Ok - got my second response from a C30 (ex) owner...guess its a 50/50 toss-up:

"John -
I got rid of my 30 about eight years ago <snip>. We had the 30 for only 1½ yrs. before I sold it. I took it to Block Island once and I was ready to scuttle it! The 30 did not sail well in the kind of weather that frequently blows up on any afternoon in Buzzards Bay . <snip>"

Whats next? Theres lots of Pearson 31s around, no wheel steerng tho

Edited by - hinmo on 07/26/2010 14:24:22

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 15:19:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hinmo
 Ok - got my second response from a C30 (ex) owner...guess its a 50/50 toss-up:

"John -
I got rid of my 30 about eight years ago <snip>. We had the 30 for only 1½ yrs. before I sold it. I took it to Block Island once and I was ready to scuttle it! The 30 did not sail well in the kind of weather that frequently blows up on any afternoon in Buzzards Bay . <snip>"

Whats next? Theres lots of Pearson 31s around, no wheel steerng tho
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sure it wasn't the sailor and not the sailboat?

Edited by - John Russell on 07/26/2010 15:19:42

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 07/26/2010 : 18:17:14

I would find a way to go sailing on a C30 preferably an experienced owner to see for yourself. I would think a Catalina dealer could arange such a sail or keep lurking on the C30 site uintil you find a current owner. Actually, you might talk to the original former owner who responded and see if they know current owners.

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
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258 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 11:48:54

I too am looking at C-30's. I took a tour of one in the early spring (an 83'). I was impressed with the volume and the feel of the deck, but not impressed with the fit and finish interior. Might be better served by an older C&C. I am trying to find one to sea trial without having to make an offer but so far have only found a Pearson 30 out of Bristol RI to try out-which I shall be doing this Friday. What is the CE rating? I'm guessing a B? If you can hold out that long, the C 309 is rated A, Videos and watching it point very well while going under the Jamestown Bridge convince me it can handle the sea well. Besides, she looks very smart below decks.

Vern

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
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Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 11:52:54

P.S. the seas out to Block on a rough day can make even owners of 35-40' boats want to hold a scuttle party.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
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Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 12:24:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ruachwrights
 ....What is the CE rating? I'm guessing a B? If you can hold out that long, the C 309 is rated A, Videos and watching it point very well while going under the Jamestown Bridge convince me it can handle the sea well. Besides, she looks very smart below decks.

Vern
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What is a "CE rating" ? Where do you find a rating ?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 12:30:23

A former C-30 owner on our lake was highly competitive with his boat. Since the skipper was good too, it likely depends on how the boat is sailed!

Edited by - on

PCP777
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Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 12:54:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 A former C-30 owner on our lake was highly competitive with his boat. Since the skipper was good too, it likely depends on how the boat is sailed!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a B Fleet boat, we beat two of them all the time in a C-27.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 15:40:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 A former C-30 owner on our lake was highly competitive with his boat. Since the skipper was good too, it likely depends on how the boat is sailed!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a B Fleet boat, we beat two of them all the time in a C-27.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree that it all depends on how well the boat is sailed. In 23 years, my C25 was never once beaten by a C27, and I doubt that either my C25 or a C27 could beat a well-sailed C30. I crewed on a Pearson 32 against a well-sailed C30, and the Pearson was regularly beaten. It also matters where the races are taking place. Bigger boats don't do well on smaller race courses.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 18:02:28

Our C-30 didn't materialize. The surveyor said he could pronounce it "sound and seaworthy for intended purpose", but it had a couple of problems that needed to be addressed or it wouldn't be that way for long. I'm not interested in a project boat, but I think it would still be an excellent buy for somebody with a few skills and a desire for sweat equity.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 20:11:07

I am convinced that ANY 20 to 30+ year old boat is a "project boat" the issue is choosing projects that you are comfortable with.

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ruachwrights
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258 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 20:43:28

I'm no expert, but CE ratings are as follows as I understand them to be. "D" is for sheltered waters. "C" (our boats) is for protected coastal waters (inshore) "B" is for coastal waters offshore. "A" is for blue water. These ratings are open to some debate, but producers have to achieve certain design standards to maintain one of these ratings. I'd give our boats a C+ for sure.

Edited by - on

hinmo
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248 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 00:17:39

Vern, et. al - I am not sure how Block Island Sound compares to Buzzards Bay (aka: "the Wind Tunnel"), but I sure do want a boat that instills confidence that it can take a good beating in tough conditions.

Anyway - next boat's criteria: seaworthy, somewhat stiff, wheel, diesel, dry, semi-comfortable accommodations for 2 for several nites, and fit in my side yard (32 ft max.). I don't need a Winnebago on water. I have been researching (online) quite a few 28-32 ftrs (Pearson, Cat, Tartan, C&C...etc) the past few weeks and have not really seen a winner yet. Again, you really need to sail or crew on one to be confident, but thats not always possible.

Any opinions on O'Days?

Edited by - hinmo on 07/29/2010 00:33:07

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 04:43:10

In the old but good dept. Don't write off the hinterholler 28. One of them is in our marina. Looks beat up, but sails really well.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 07:00:00

Regarding the C30 (or just about any Catalina’s for that matter) as they are successfully sailed and raced on San Francisco Bay, which is known for it’s “exhilarating” conditions, off the west coast where winds and conditions are “ocean” like, and there are so many on Buzzards Bay, "the Islands", “Down East” and sthe outh coast of Long Island, I believe that the boat -- a C25, C27, C30 or larger is not the issue. The issue is YOUR sailing ability and YOUR comfort in ANY boat. That said I would highly advise sailing the C30 for yourself to see how it performs and how comfortable you are. Also try other boats – like the Ryder built Sea Sprit’s (Luder’s designs) or Cape Dory’s (Alberg’s designs) or Pearson’s (Shaw’s designs) or C&C’s, etc, etc (there are many designers/brands) – all built during the 80’s into the early 90’s so they are similar age to the C30 and all very different.

All designs are a compromise of one kind or another so for you it’s finding the compromise that you are personally most comfortable with in your chosen sailing area. Boats from the above companies and designers are very available and enjoyed on Buzzards Bay.

Finally, if you look in the archives of both Practical Sailor and/or Good Old Boat they have reviewed all of the above.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 07:51:40

On Buzzard's, I'd probably be hankering for a Cape Dory 28 (or bigger)--a full-keeled beauty that I'd say Carl Alberg designed precisely for those conditions. But you should enjoy maintaining teak (coamings, rub-rails, etc., etc...). The C-30 and CD-30 have similar displacements and ballast (and prices by year), but the C-30 has almost 2' more beam, so you can guess how each one will feel relative to the other going through chop, and down below. Relatively speaking, the Catalina floats like a cork. The CD's full keel and keel-hung rudder improve tracking in following seas, but make maneuvering around a dock trickier. (In reverse, you pretty much just go straight.)

Catalina and O'Day over the years built to identical objectives--good near-coastal and lake sailing characteristics in moderate conditions, and bigger-than-average spaces down below. On Buzzard's, you'll feel a lot more comfortable sailing a Cape Dory 30 than a Catalina 30, but the Cat will be nicer in the marina (although the CD will get a lot more looks). In Padaram, Vineyard Haven, or Menemsha Harbor, [url="http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2073641&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=75873&url="]this Cape Dory[/url] would be the thing!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/29/2010 07:56:05

hinmo
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Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 10:11:08

CD's are beautiful boats. I had a cd25 earlier in my life. Three concerns with a CD28
1) Tender (would like to discuss this more with this forum)
2) Wet - tradeoff for low lines
3) Lotsa wood - you know what i mean!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
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Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 10:25:53

CE - Center of Effort of a sail plan. this from Google...

To find the center of effort of a quadrilateral sail, draw a diagonal dividing the sail into two triangles. Determine the CE of each of the resultant triangles. Connect these two CEs. The CE of the full sail is at the intersection of that line and the original diagonal bisecting the sail.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 13:26:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hinmo
 CD's are beautiful boats. I had a cd25 earlier in my life. Three concerns with a CD28
1) Tender (would like to discuss this more with this forum)
2) Wet - tradeoff for low lines
3) Lotsa wood - you know what i mean!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Interesting--I've never heard CDs described as tender... The CD25 is an entirely different boat from the others--one of the few non-Alberg designs in the Cape Dory line. They bought it from somebody else, and it looks like it--lower freeboard and barely sitting headroom. I sailed on one a guy wanted to sell me and was disappointed. And it was the earlier version that didn't have the classic Cape Dory portlights. The CD25D (diesel) is an Alberg design--a totally different boat from the CD25. The CD26 is sort of a 25D stretched for an outboard well. I almost bought one, but it would've been very difficult to maneuver in the town club where it would've lived, but it was gorgeous. And I used to drool every time I went by the CD36 cutter that moored in our harbor. Robinhood in Maine builds a couple of the larger Cape Dory models--for big bucks.

I haven't sailed the CD28, and would probably want the 30 or above for the accommodations.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/29/2010 13:26:44

hinmo
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Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 14:23:03

Do a google search on CD28 reviews. Several report them as tender.

Edited by - hinmo on 07/29/2010 14:23:18

PCP777
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Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 15:19:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 A former C-30 owner on our lake was highly competitive with his boat. Since the skipper was good too, it likely depends on how the boat is sailed!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a B Fleet boat, we beat two of them all the time in a C-27.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree that it all depends on how well the boat is sailed. In 23 years, my C25 was never once beaten by a C27, and I doubt that either my C25 or a C27 could beat a well-sailed C30. I crewed on a Pearson 32 against a well-sailed C30, and the Pearson was regularly beaten. It also matters where the races are taking place. Bigger boats don't do well on smaller race courses.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My friend's C-27 will outpoint my C-25 and goes a bit faster in light wind. (My main is a bit blown out though)

We sail on both these boats all the time.

last night again we beat two C30's on a 4 NM course with the C-27, but had to raise the spin on the downwind leg to do it decisively. We had the better start, on the first leg we were pointing about the same, and then we all tacked away from each other. (The A fleet boats point much higher and ran away from all of us B Fleet boats.) At the pin from the upwind leg we were literally on top of each other, within a couple feet or so behind the C-30 as we rounded. (The other C-30 was left in the dust) Last night was windy so we had a reef in the main which we eventually shook out and part of the head sail rolled up. They had everything out and at times got over powered but they were gaining on us. Both C-30's are driven by respected skippers, one was single handing and probably had too much on his hands last night.

The difference in room down below is huge between the C-27 and C-25, and it sails a bit heavier and less dinghy like. I haven't been on a C-30, but I can only imagine that trend would continue.

Buzzards bay is nice sailing, I went to tabor, raced the Lasers and 420's there.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
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Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 18:09:09

RE Cape Dory's -- Alberg designed boats that were INITIALLY tender but dug in and were steady sailors when it got rough. The CD25 was designed by Paul Stadel (who's son did the survey on my boat) as the Greenwich 24 then converted to the CD 25 (when Cape Dory bought the molds from Allied) ergo it really is not an Alberg design. I have owned a couple Alberg designs and would say that 1. they heal faster in light wind; 2. They dig in and "sail on their bottom" in heavy wind (read never over 20 degrees heal) ; and 3. are far smaller below decks than ANYTHING Butler and company has ever designed. My complaint with Cape Dory's is that they really were not built as well as their contemporaries (Pearson, Bristol, etc) so they are more on a par of Catalina but possibly less so. That said, at 20-30 years of age the previous owners attention to detail is more important than the construction quality -- and that's why you SHOULD get a survey!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 19:26:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 ...Alberg designed boats that were INITIALLY tender but dug in and were steady sailors when it got rough. I have owned a couple Alberg designs and would say that 1. they heal faster in light wind; 2. They dig in and "sail on their bottom" in heavy wind (read never over 20 degrees heal)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Alberg's designs were for sailing at about 15-20 degrees of heel, where the overhanging stern and relatively narrow beam lengthened the waterline, raising the hull speed. The rig, ballast, and hull form were calibrated to do just that (a very old trick). So a CD won't sail to her numbers in light air when she's too upright, and she "wants" to heel a little... But give her a breeze and some seas to punch through, and she'll surprise--even the pretty little Typhoon. (I recall Jim Baumgart was harassed by a CDxx in some of his races...) The only widespread build issue I've been aware of was some chainplates, which were upgraded some time in the 80s I think. (?) And no, I have no financial interest in Cape Dory--nobody does any more.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/29/2010 19:46:06

GaryB
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Response Posted - 08/03/2010 : 19:09:18

Looking for a nice C30? Check this one out. Looks very nice. I have no interest or relationship, just looking through Sailing Texas and remembered this thread.

http://www.sailingtexas.com/scatalina30118.html

There are also several C25's listed.

Edited by - GaryB on 08/03/2010 19:10:15

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 07:37:41

For a boat of it's age it looks to be in really great condition -- might be a bit costly to move to one of the coasts though.

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