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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Is reefing necessary?

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mrapkins
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USA
124 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/02/2010 : 08:44:24

On a C25 with with a furling headsail, why reef the main? The boat sails well under headsail alone and the the headsail itself can be very easily "reefed" (furled).

I know some folks talk about "balance", but my C25 seems balanced with one OR 2 sails up.

Edited by - on

pjeffarch
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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 09:06:51

If you're happy with one sail up, then go for it. Depending on how you are with heeling, speed, performance, and other things that affect the 'feel' of the boat, you can do any combination. Headsail only, Main only, or both, or just the jib. In heavier winds, I like a full main and no jib, or a reefed main and a small jib - I like the performance of the boat heeling...'where the boat wants to be'... Have fun experimenting with all three or four setups.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 09:11:11

I enjoyed and often promoted "genny-alone" sailing on the C-25. On a blustery day, it gave me nice power with very little heel because so much of the sail is down lower than the main, and I could set the sheet cars back so the bottom was flattened and the top twisted off. Plus setting and dousing is so easy with the roller! Under main alone, she was a pig. I'd always reef if not douse the main before rolling up any of my 130. As for balance under the 130 alone, mine had an almost precisely neutral helm, which I don't prefer--it felt kinda squirrelly to me. I always like a couple of degrees of weather helm, which with a balance rudder, is about one-finger steering, but I feel like the boat is communicating to me that way. That's what the main added--not much else. (But I wasn't racing, or at least not officially...

)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/02/2010 09:15:04

John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 10:22:58

No. Neither is getting knocked down or constantly rounding up.

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PCP777
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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 12:09:15

main alone my C-25 is a pig and she sails fine on head sail alone, the only problem is sometimes when you tack she wants to fall way off on the new tack so you have to take that into account.

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pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 12:10:19

Took my wife and son out sailing on Friday. Wind was perfect for my liking, but my wife is a bit of a nervous sailor, so I reefed the main and hanked-on 110% jib. The boat heels oh so gently with a reef in the main and stays beautifully in control. Now was a reef necessary - no - but it extended my sail for a couple of hours.

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cks
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126 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2010 : 13:01:26

How well does your boat point with jib alone? If it points well enough you're right. If it doesn't point far enough, you don't want to get caught lying abeam to a large wave. Also, your boat may need to be reefed if you want to even attempt to heave-to.

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 08/03/2010 : 05:15:02

IMO it is just as much work to reef the main underway as it is to completely drop it. If you are talking about not even putting it up that is another thing, however it is very easy to reef it at the dock before you even cast off the lines.

It all depends on what you are doing - if you're reaching back and forth with no real destination - it will work just fine. If you are trying to tack up a narrow channel or have to fetch any kind of mark, you could be in for a long day.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 08/03/2010 : 07:34:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mrapkins
 On a C25 with with a furling headsail, why reef the main? The boat sails well under headsail alone and the the headsail itself can be very easily "reefed" (furled).

I know some folks talk about "balance", but my C25 seems balanced with one OR 2 sails up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">In moderate winds, with only an overlapping genoa, the boat might feel fairly well balanced, and it might sail adequately, but a sloop is designed to sail its best with both sails raised. When the wind pipes up, and you need good boat speed and maximum pointing ability in order to drive the boat away from a lee shore, there is no substitute for the mainsail and jib of proper size.

On a sailboat, having too much sail area raised in too much wind means that the sails are generating more power than the boat is capable of using efficiently. If a sailboat is grossly overpowered, it can't maintain speed and pointing ability.

If you only intend to sail downwind in a blow, then a partially furled jib alone might be adequate. If you have to sail to windward in a blow, you need some mainsail area to balance against the jib, helping to drive the boat to windward.

As Duane said, the sail configuration that you need depends on the conditions. In moderate winds, you can get by with a less than optimal choice of sails, but when the wind pipes up, you need to make the best choices. Otherwise, the boat won't go where you want it to go, when you need it to go there.

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 08/03/2010 : 11:31:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mrapkins
 On a C25 with with a furling headsail, why reef the main? The boat sails well under headsail alone and the the headsail itself can be very easily "reefed" (furled).

I know some folks talk about "balance", but my C25 seems balanced with one OR 2 sails up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">In moderate winds, with only an overlapping genoa, the boat might feel fairly well balanced, and it might sail adequately, but a sloop is designed to sail its best with both sails raised. When the wind pipes up, and you need good boat speed and maximum pointing ability in order to drive the boat away from a lee shore, there is no substitute for the mainsail and jib of proper size.

On a sailboat, having too much sail area raised in too much wind means that the sails are generating more power than the boat is capable of using efficiently. If a sailboat is grossly overpowered, it can't maintain speed and pointing ability.

If you only intend to sail downwind in a blow, then a partially furled jib alone might be adequate. If you have to sail to windward in a blow, you need some mainsail area to balance against the jib, helping to drive the boat to windward.

As Duane said, the sail configuration that you need depends on the conditions. In moderate winds, you can get by with a less than optimal choice of sails, but when the wind pipes up, you need to make the best choices. Otherwise, the boat won't go where you want it to go, when you need it to go there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sometimes this stuff is hard to read...

If you are just tooling about and not trying to make much headway, hey a Jib or Genny alone will do the trick. Boring! I hear they put 75 horse outboards on Mac's too.

If someone is running a downwind and feels that the main will be blocked or don't wanna try to run a wing and wing, ok. But otherwise, running just the headsail is poor form in my opinion. The Main should almost always be the last sail you drop. Learn how to reef, spill excess wind by trimming, or get a stormsail or a third reef put in. Run lines aft with preset reefs and clutches and a set of lazy jacks. Now that is Nauti!

But I see that I am in good company with that viewpoint, so just count this as another vote for two sails up "tout le temps". All of the time in French.

sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2010 : 19:17:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ...running just the headsail is poor form in my opinion. ...just count this as another vote for two sails up "tout le temps".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Some people like to bury the rail, spray the guests, carry 3-4 hank-on headsails to change to under way, have two reefs with two lines for each, keep the mainsheet in hand, scallop through the puffs,... Other people prefer a more peaceful scenario that, for example, does not include going over the horizon on the ocean. Different strokes.

Sten, you belong on a C&C 39,

and many of us belong on a Catalina 25 or 250.

Very few people have taken those boats as far beyond their design objectives as Jim Baumgart has, but he too belongs on another boat--just ask him.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/03/2010 19:29:20

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2010 : 19:32:08

Um Dave, do I need another boat? Its a small lake, but you pretty much described th eway Iris and I spend our nights out. right down to the number of headsails and number of reefs.

Now I need a new boat and an ocean...

WRT to the original post though, I like sailing under storm jib and reefed main. Gives me pointing ability without heeling farther than SWMBO is comfortable with. Dunno why, but that is better to me than going under Genoa alone.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2010 : 20:41:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Um Dave, do I need another boat? ...Now I need a new boat and an ocean...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yup! (Although Lake Erie is a fair approximation, without the possibility of waves bigger than your house--as in [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7FddPO5QM&NR=1"]this[/url]. That's an ocean, and that guy needs a drogue out.)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...I like sailing under storm jib and reefed main. Gives me pointing ability without heeling farther than SWMBO is comfortable with. Dunno why, but that is better to me than going under Genoa alone.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Pointing is good... but sometimes we're not that worried about it. With guests, the Admiral, or alone, and the wind a little blustery, I often pulled out the genny, put Passage on a beam reach, sailed up the Sound for an hour or two, tacked over to a reciprocal reach, sailed home, started the outboard, pulled the furling string to make the genny disappear, and peacefully idled back into the marina. If I had some serious sailors out with me, all canvas up!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/03/2010 20:54:07

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 08:24:43

Some humorist (perhaps Mark Twain) once said "I wouldn't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way." Likewise, there are lots of different ways that we can sail a boat, and most of them are perfectly acceptable.

On a sweltering, humid day, when you just want to jink around the lake or bay in moderate winds, but you don't want to expend any more energy than necessary, there's nothing wrong with raising just a genoa. Notwithstanding the comments that the C25 is a pig when sailed on only the mainsail, I have had exhilarating sails, using just the mainsail in very strong winds, and reaching hull speed. When racing or sailing with experienced sailors or racers, I'll carry more sail area, and enjoy it when the boat heels. When daysailing with women and children, I reduce sail area to the extent necessary so that everyone is comfortable with the amount of heeling, and nobody is likely to get hurt.

You don't have to sail your boat the same way in every condition. There is not just one "correct" way to sail your boat. It's your boat, and you can sail it any way you wish, as long as you don't frighten your passengers and others around you, unreasonably interfere with other boats, and as long as it's safe for all.

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PCP777
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 08:50:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Some humorist (perhaps Mark Twain) once said "I wouldn't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way." Likewise, there are lots of different ways that we can sail a boat, and most of them are perfectly acceptable.

On a sweltering, humid day, when you just want to jink around the lake or bay in moderate winds, but you don't want to expend any more energy than necessary, there's nothing wrong with raising just a genoa. Notwithstanding the comments that the C25 is a pig when sailed on only the mainsail, I have had exhilarating sails, using just the mainsail in very strong winds, and reaching hull speed. When racing or sailing with experienced sailors or racers, I'll carry more sail area, and enjoy it when the boat heels. When daysailing with women and children, I reduce sail area to the extent necessary so that everyone is comfortable with the amount of heeling, and nobody is likely to get hurt.

You don't have to sail your boat the same way in every condition. There is not just one "correct" way to sail your boat. It's your boat, and you can sail it any way you wish, as long as you don't frighten your passengers and others around you, unreasonably interfere with other boats, and as long as it's safe for all.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Completely agreed. My sail selection depends as much on who is sailing with me than anything else. There's "racing mode" where all sails are raised, , washing the windows, pointing as high as I can mode and then there's "wine and cheese with children and newbs on board" where I might just have a head sail out, reaching around mode.

Even when I'm putting about with just the head sail, when I end up going down wind I typically do raise the main. Our wind is almost always from the south in summer, which is the way home.

Even when I go out

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djdurrett
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Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 09:19:03

Peter, next time you are out on a Tuesday, Primo's is quite the scene. We sailed over and enjoyed $2 margarita night. I think I enjoyed people watching and the cheese enchiladas the most... It was packed and there was plenty of boat parking. I like that dock at Bass Pro because you can sail in/out without the motor.

I would like to have some sort of spinnaker for that run home...

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