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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Newby question - is the C25 a good 1st boat?

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 16:55:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 . . . They all claim the inspection is too expensive for the average sailboat owner to pay . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm not convinced the C25 represents an average sailboat owner.

If you can't find anyone willing to take your money to do an inspection - you can post pix here with questions/concerns and we can address them. Others have done this.

If you do find an inspector I would strongly recommend you being present during the inspection. It will keep the inspector honest and you'll learn a lot.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 17:11:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Slingerland
 ...I did call John Linck, and he is not inspecting sailboats. He did not refer me to anybody, with the price as the reason.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sounds like an excuse--he's into sterndrives and stuffing boxes--not chainplates and turning balls. Too bad--a scan of the decks with a moisture meter would've been useful, since the trained eye can't see what the meter sees (wet plywood core). The hull is solid fiberglass, and generally blisters are just cosmetic.

One good thing about buying directly from the seller is he knows you know who and where he is... That's also the bad thing about selling direct.

(The current owner of my C-25 knows where I am, too, but somebody owned her between us, so I can say, "Wha?... Hey!...")

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 18:04:16

Your discussion of not being able to get a survey is intriging. You need to check with your marina to find out what their insurance requirements are. Then you need to check with your insurance company to see if they'll insure a 30 year old boat without a survey. I wouldn't be surprised if they refused to insure it without one. No insurance could result in no slip at the marina.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 19:09:52

Check with davis surveyors. The are on the slow loading links page. If they can"t do it I bet they know someone who can

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1778 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 19:21:17

Contact BoatUS -- talk to them -- and ask where the nearest surveyor is for SAILboats . . .

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2010 : 21:28:48

My family and I started with sailing club in Canyon Ferry Lake in MT owned by a Canadian ex-pat who had a fleet of 18-20' keelboats, and a 27' C&C for special occasions. It cost us $700.00 a season including sailing lessons. Even with no advanced notice there was always something available to sail. If I was still living there I'd have no reason to be an owner!

Lake Catherine seems pretty, yet small. Can you sail up those rivers? How about Ouchita? It seems a little far, but what about Lake Enid?

Welcome to the wonderful world of sailing

Vern

Edited by - on

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 07:30:50

Good morning!

I checked with my insurance company, and for the prices involved, no inspection is necessary. This came as a surprise to me. I checked with BoatUS, which in turn referred me to John Linck, the inspector who stopped doing sailboat inspections. I've left a message with the sailing instructor, waiting on his call back.

So... looks like sailboat inspections are almost impossible in central Arkansas.

The boats I'm considering are currently at Lake Catherine, but after purchase I might move to Lake Maumelle. The sailing instructor is there, and Lake Maumelle is only 15 minutes from my house. It's a small lake, but it would be more convenient while starting my learning.

Thanks again everybody! Cross your fingers...

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 08:23:20

Gofurit!

Then join the association and the fun!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 10:05:12

Slingerland,

Dinghy sailing is a blast but not good for family sailing. Honestly, the most difficult part of sailing a C-25 is getting her in and out of her slip. Otherwise, I find her to be a very stable and forgiving boat that's still a blast to sail. If you get over powered she'll round up etc. She's a true pocket cruiser, and there's nothing better than sailing on a reach, doing cheese and wine with your honey as you sit on the best "back porch" in the world. Or you can sail her hard in the Wednesday Club races when there are no kids on board and she'll hold her own.

The best thing in my mind about the C-25, other than how she sails, is how roomy she is for her size down below. My family treats our C-25 like a summer cottage which is the big benefit. Me, my wife and our three year old sleep aboard about once a weekend. You really won't be able do that on a C-22. My C-25 can sleep 5 to 6, if you have a couple couples. We do raft ups and go to coves and we absolutely love it.

I think if you get a C-22 you'll end up being like all these guys and upgrade to a C-25 anyways. :) Might as well skip a step as the C-25 is so easy to sail.

As an aside, a survey is wise and what you should do but I didn't do one either and I got a pretty good deal on Stephanos. At the very least, find someone who's very experienced with C-25's and have them take a look. Using the Don Casey book is also a good idea. Make sure the seller takes you out for a sail etc.

Edited by - on

limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 10:26:38

Slingerland, i got my new to me 1980 C-25 this spring and have been going out with my family all summer, usually 4 or 6 people in the group. My dads girl had a Merit 22 and it would not be nearly as good to us as this C-25 has been. sailing either boat will be close to the same difficulty and the C-25 gives you a lot more space and breathing room to grow into. you sound like you are serious about learning and making a commitment to the sport so id say jump right into a C-25 and you may never have to buy another boat!

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 10:46:41

I agree with all of the above. But let me expand my argument for a dinghy or other small boat first. The point of learning how to capsize is not because it's funny: it's to learn 1. that it's not the worst thing that can happen; 2. how to avoid it. You're not likely to capsize a C25 (although I've buried the rail several times), but having learned in a small "tippy" boat will make you much more aware of what's going on when you sail. As for your wife not liking roller coasters -- no, she probably won't like dinghy sailing. But before you spend five thousand or more dollars on a C25 only to discover all of you don't like sailing, spend much less on a dinghy and see how you like it. If you love sailing and want to move to a bigger boat, a C25 is a great choice. I'm amazed at the ads in sailing magazines for 30+ foot "starter boats." (I'm also astounded at $ 350,000 "starter homes," but I digress.) Read Richard Bode's wonderful "First You Have to Row a Little Boat."

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:00:12

Go for a Catalina 25 rather than a smaller boat. It will significantly benefit your teen boys social lives. And what better incentive to learn sailing than wanting to take out friends and leave Ole Dad on the dock. Also a good incentive for the boys to clean and fix up the boat. Think "babe magnet".

Edited by - jbkayaker on 08/05/2010 11:03:44

Slingerland
1st Mate

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96 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:02:13

EC, you have a great argument in favor of teh smaller boats. So I think I have a good compromise idea.

The selection of boats in my area is slim, and if I do not buy this particular boat, it will be some time before I find another at the price point. Timeliness is an issue. So... I've asked the sailing instructor if he will take my family out on a charter run around the lake (make your own jokes about "3 hour tour"... my wife is certainly doing so... and she's singing the theme as well.) This will let me know if my wife and the kids are willing to put in the work (his charter sailboat is a 26' Hunter, similar to the C25.)

Assuming we're still enthusiastic, I can start negotiations on the C25. The local sailing club teaches advanced sailing on dingies, so after the first round of lessons with the sailing instructor on the big boat, then we can move forward into the smaller vessels and improve our skills.

This is similar to the way I learned to drive a car. I learned to drive on a 1970 Ford Galaxie (land barge) but the first car I bought for myself was a Fiat Spider. The Ford taught me how to start, stop, turn, etc.; the Fiat taught me to appreciate my center of gravity, hills, curves and banking, etc. Even though the Fiat was underpowered, I learned a LOT from it and I've owned more powerful exotic cars since.

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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96 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:05:21

jbkayaker: "It will significantly benefit your teen boys social lives."

If my wife sees this comment, then she will be absolutely opposed to the boat! Two teenage boys... with teenage hormones... and teenage girls... with teenage hormones... and a boat with a cuddy cabin? GASP!

(laughing)

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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299 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:08:12

Would you like me to delete my "Benefit the social lives" comment ?

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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96 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:09:27

No, leave it... maybe I can turn it into "Patricia, let's leave the boys at home at go sailing by ourselves (wink, wink.)"

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jbkayaker
Captain

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299 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:11:20

There have been a couple of recent threads on choosing the right anchor.

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tyztoy
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:50:26

I was exactly in your situation last year. I did buy the Catalina 25 and I absolutely LOVE it. I had no prior sailing experience except for the "three hour tours" where I did not do anything except enjoy the ride. I have not taken any classes yet. I started by going out with someone experienced on a similar sized boat from my marina the first week of June, and then a couple times with VERY experienced sailors from the marina on my boat. My inexperienced girlfriend, and I have gotten along fine. I'm also very fortunate to have Dave B. and Pearl at the marina. I do intend on taking classes, and I am sure after you do that you will do just fine. I would add one thing. I have contacted several instructors that will train us on MY boat. I suggest you look into doing the same. It is do-able!

I guess we went the opposite way. Since our boat is 2+ hours away, we are now looking for a smaller boat for our local lakes that we can sail during the week.

My girlfriend had never been on a sailboat before. She had concers. So if your wife would like to chat with someone who just went through being new, feel free to PM me and I can hook them up.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:51:50

For that price buy the C25 and keep it in the water, you can always move her later. We bought a C22 for our first boat and QUICKLY outgrew it. In fact, the fellow who sold it to us had exactly the same kinda family you do, and the boat was simply too small. The C25 is easily handled and I'll bet within two weeks you can singlehand it yourself. Your kids, and even you, can get separate sailing lessons anywhere. Take a sailing lesson on your new C25 and you'll see how easy it really is. Starting on something smaller will be a waste of time and you'll be kicking yourself six months from now for letting this one get away.

Edited by - on

limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:58:41

Slingerland, that sounds like a great plan! also remember, if you get the C-25 then you get access to this awesome forum! look at how helpful these gent's are, and you dont even own a boat! Honestly, after finding this place in the spring i was sure i wanted a C-25 for the help and wealth of info here.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2010 : 19:44:27

Have you thought about moving the boat to Lake Hamilton. Looking at Google maps it appears it would be a bigger lake for sailing with more room to maneuver.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 08:08:05

To pick up on Brooke's suggestions regarding dinghy sailing... A very common topic here has been various spouses' nervousness when a sailboat heels. It just goes against the instinctive belief that a boat should stay upright or it might "tip over." One of the most important things you learn on a dinghy (including Sunfish, Laser, etc.) is how everything works together to control heeling and prevent a capsize--the sheet(s), the tiller, and the ballast. On the dinghy, the ballast is you. On a keelboat, it's built in and virtually impossible to overcome (capsize). But if you, your wife, and your kids experience the dynamics of sailing on a little boat, all will be more comfortable in the big one because they'll understand intuitively (1) how the heel can be controlled, and (2) that the boat is simply not going to "tip over". One day you'll be challenging each other to "bury the rail" (heel the C-25 to the point that water is washing the side-deck), and you'll find out that most of the time you can't do it!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/06/2010 08:14:23

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 08:20:20

Gary, Lake Hamilton has three bridges for highway overpasses, and there is not enough clearance for the mast. In fact, Lake Catharine has the same problem. If I buy the boat, my father in law has offered to help me tow it to Lake Maumelle. Maumelle has an advantage in that it is 15 minutes form my house, and the sailing instructor is there as well.

Thanks again, everybody! I am overwhelmed by the kindness and response of everybody here!

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1778 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 09:08:30

As someone who learned to sail as an adult -- and on larger boats -- I very much agree that the way you SHOULD proceed is by sailing "dingy" type boats first and get comfortable with controlling the heel, sail controls, etc., etc.

When you head out with the instructor on the H26 make sure the instructor pushes you all to sail and not just take you for a ride. Your sons will love it or hate it (your wife will probably be lukewarm to it!) and you need to then decide if the cost/effort will be worth it all.

As far as teen boys, teen girlfriends, hormones and the availability for a bunk . . . my son sails all the time on our C25 -- with his male and female friends -- without parents. All his friends sail and they race and they work their buts off doing so -- so no time to literally screw around. And my son knows that if their is any misbehaving the boat access for him is history. One of the few places I do not worry about that kind of behavior is on the boat. If you're sons take to sailing they will want to SAIL on the boat -- and not lose that privilege!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2010 : 09:36:23

Without looking at the boat, it sounds like a great deal, $5K for a 1980 C25 with trailer and a new o/b. The o/b alone is worth $2K, so you will be getting the boat and trailer for $3K. Unless the hull is in bad shape, I'd seriously consider it. If the boat has a marine head with holding tank, not a portapotty, make sure you have pumpout facilities available at the marina.

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