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Boat heels, lessons to be learned

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TakeFive
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Initially Posted - 10/18/2010 : 20:17:18

I intentionally titled this topic similar to another recent one because, although my experience was nowhere near as severe, I was thinking about that incident while on the water yesterday. I am interested in hearing your suggestions for improvement in how I responded to this situation.

The forecast yesterday for the Delaware River near Philly was about 70 degrees air temp, with winds peaking at 15 mph around 2 pm then tapering off gradually in the afternoon to about 10 mph. We headed down to the boat around 1:00, and there was a very nice steady breeze. We cast off at 1:30 and headed downriver, beating to windward with the breeze roughly from the SW. The boat was controlling nicely with a heel of only 10 to 15 degrees (our main was reefed, and the 110% genoa was furled a turn or two). We were going out with the current, so that helped us along.

We made faster progress than expected and turned around a littler earlier than planned (prior to slackwater) because we did not want to get too far downstream. Heading back against the current is always a challenge, but doing it with the wind makes progress much better. As we turned to come back and loosened the sheets I noticed that the breeze was now WNW, so we were almost running. I don't like running because I want to avoid uncontrolled jibes, so I altered my course slightly to have the breeze off our stern port quarter in a very broad reach, with the main out as far as possible without chafing on the C250's swept-back spreader. The genoa was also out pretty far as well, and occasionally on the verge of luffing because we were almost running.

After about 15 minutes of pleasant sailing we had a sudden gust from a different direction that heeled the boat over severely. My natural instinct was to turn toward windward. This made the heeling worse temporarily, but once we completed the turn to windward things got under control. After the gust subsided we returned to our previous course with the sails trimmed the same way. However, after a few minutes the same thing happened again, and I responded the same way. This time it seemed to take an eternity to complete the turn, partly because with the mainsail out so far it was depowered and luffing instead creating weather helm to help the boat through its turn. It's sort of a blur now because things were happening so fast, but I believe I had to fire up the outboard to help us complete the turn, and had to throttle up pretty high to gain control. In retrospect, I think that the genoa was creating a strong lee helm that was not balanced by the main because it was out so far, and this was preventing us from turning to windward. We were rattled enough by this that once we finally got turned into the wind we furled the jib (which was luffing and slapping the mast violently) then doused the main (which did not want to come down easily because of all the luffing) and motored back.

While motoring back I had an opportunity to replay what had happened in my head, as well as make some more observations of the conditions. Here are some notes:

Although the skies were perfectly clear and there was no storm, the wind must have really been blowing hard. I do not have a wind speed gauge, so I do not know its exact speed. But when I looked up at the masthead windex while motoring, I could see that every few minutes the direction was changing from directly behind us to our beam, then back again. It was blowing hard enough that when the wind shifted to our beam, the boat would heel over about 10 degrees just from the resistance of the freeboard and the bare mast.

At one point I thought that we might be able to sail back under the genoa alone, but my wife had bundled all the sheets and covered the winches, and she didn't want to sail any more. It's probably a good thing, because if the boat heeled that much with bare sticks, the genoa may have pushed us over even further, and maybe produced an uncontrollable lee helm.

There was a J22 from the nearby Corinthian Yacht Club sailing in about the same direction as us, and they were having the same problem with the gusts that we were. They were under full sail and had no auxiliary power. When the gusts shifted, they did the same thing I did by turning to windward, with a severe heel during the turn. So assuming they know what they were doing, I guess I did the right thing. (I'm sure you all will chime in with your opinions on this.) On the other hand, that boat ran aground earlier over near the Jersey side of the river, which anyone with a chart knows to stay away from. So maybe they didn't know what they were doing.

I had checked weather websites, but not the NOAA weather channel. I had my VHF on 16, and am supposed to get severe weather alerts on the radio, but there were none. I was not aware of any small craft advisories in the area. But interestingly, a web search shows that one was issued for Western NY at 3:45 yesterday, and I think there was one issued on parts of the Chesapeake and Potomac also that afternoon.

I suppose that instead of turning to windward I could have turned the other way and gotten a nice push from the gust. But my concern was that a sudden shift of the wind back to the original direction could have led to a severe jibe, so I was not willing to take that risk. What is the right decision in this situation? Should I have instead turned to leeward and quickly pulled in the mainsheet to prepare for a controlled jibe? And how would I avoid a knockdown with an even greater gust?

After this experience, I think I am going to rig a second reef for next season. Previously I thought that if the wind picked up too much I could just sail under genoa. But now I can envision situations where that might create too much lee helm that might be better balanced with the main on a 2nd reef. What do you guys think? The main has cringles for a second reef, but I would have to install some blocks and install a mast gate to allow the slugs to drop far enough in the mast track.

If you have questions or comments, fire away!

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/19/2010 03:46:06

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 04:05:23

I usually (not always) check the wind conditions via online weather websites before I go sailing. If gusts are predicted, depending on how severe indicated, I will reef my main. I have one set of reef holes. I had two sets on my old sail but my experience has been that one set is enough and believe that one set is slightly more reefed than the lower reef of sails with two. Past experience with an ODay 23 was that when wind is high and constant, when I used the upper set of reef holes and did not have my head sail out, it was very hard to turn to tack against waves and so I prefer to not use a second set of reef holes.

The experience you had...well if I were close hauled while sailing and a gust hit, then the turning slightly into the wind was fairly easy and after the gust, returning to normal course was only a slight adjustment but when not close hauled and experiencing a gust, I woul dhave same experience as you. It would seem that you handled it fine.

I would have thought that with your main reefed, you would have it rather easy to control the boat but sounds like your head sail was almost out all the way and that is probably what gave a sense of loss of control when the gust hit. generally, when my main is reefed, I will go out and not unfurl my 150 genoa until I have been out for awhile and better able to judge the predicted gusty winds...but not knowing there were gusts...well then would have been in same predicament as you were in. After a gust like that hit, I would probably take in my 150 genoa to something less than a std jib because experience has been that when high winds hit, the furling line on the drum seems to tighten and as it does, more of the genoa unfurls a bit, a bit more than I would like. So, I usually will compensate by taking it in more allowing for it to unfurl a bit on it's own as the line tightens on the drum.

The othe rthing is that when a gust hits and catches me off guard, chances are there will be more gusts and so I am usually prepared to unlock my main to let the sail out if I get caught unexpectedly and can't turn boat faster enough slightly into the wind. So, one way or the other, I try to prepare to slightly luff the main to let out the excess wind...but always try to do it by turniung slightly into the wind vs letting out the main.

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/19/2010 04:10:52

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 06:46:30

Suppose you had been beating to windward in gusty winds. If you were beating to windward, your action would have been to steer to windward in a gust and, if necessary, to ease the mainsheet. When broad reaching, your general action should be similar, but I think improper sail trim is the reason why the boat heeled even more when you steered to windward in this instance.

The reason why the boat heeled even more when you steered to windward is because the sails were over-trimmed, so that, the wind wasn’t streaming equally over both sides of the sails before the gust hit. Instead, the wind was streaming more strongly over the concave side of the sail. Because the angle of attack of the sails was too high, the sails were somewhat depowered before the gust hit. When the gust hit, and you steered toward the wind, the wind began to stream equally over both sides of the sails, increasing the amount of power they were producing. Thus, the effect was to power up the sails, rather than to depower them. This caused the boat’s angle of heel to increase until the boat turned far enough toward the wind to cause the sails to begin to luff.

The remedy is to trim your sails with a lower angle of attack, when broad reaching in gusting conditions, so that, if a gust hits, steering to windward will immediately begin to depower the sails.
Also, in gusty conditions, I always liked to have the mainsheet in hand, so I could dump it quickly if necessary. If the helmsman is handling both the tiller and the mainsheet, he can feel the relationship between the pressure on the mainsheet and the pressure on the tiller, and it gives him instant feedback on the amount that he needs to ease the mainsheet. You can play the tiller with one hand and the mainsheet with the other hand, to keep the boat on its feet.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 10/19/2010 06:57:23

Stinkpotter
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 07:27:06

I'll agree particularly with Steve's last part--keeping the mainsheet in hand (or handy). You said the gusts came from a "different direction"... That suggests that proper trim for the prevailing direction was not proper for the direction of the gust, or close enough for you to be able to control it with the tiller.

In relative terms, the boat turns slowly but the mains'l can be controlled or dumped very quickly. (The genny is not as important--it generates much less heel.) In strong and especially gusty conditions, I keep the mainsheet in a gloved hand. (A sudden play-out can give you a sudden burn.) I might have it cleated, but I can snap it out of the cleat in an instant. In serious gusts, I don't cleat it.

But you had the wind behind you. Turning up initially does relatively little to de-power the main, and it exposes more of the genny, powering it up. And you can't "dump" a main that's fully out, or at least not in the traditional way... Think about it this way: On a run, you leave the main out as far as possible for maximum power... If you trim it in, you lose power by dumping air past the mast (instead of the leech). That can ease the sensation of being overpowered somewhat, although it makes you feel vulnerable to an unintentional jibe. However, the more you haul the main in, the less a jibe, if it happens, can generate a "big bang." In fact, a proper, controlled jibe should include fully hardening the mainsheet until the wind has crossed the leech. And you can reduce the chances of a surprise jibe by turning just slightly "up".

Some day, on a run, try yanking in the main and see how it slows you down. (It is less likely to jibe than you might think.) Then make a turn to windward and quickly dump the main as you turn, trimming it as you begin heading to windward.

Which of these techniques is appropriate when a gust is from a "different direction"? It all depends on the original direction, the different direction, and your direction... But if you experiment with trim and technique in more moderate conditions, you'll feel more prepared for the unexpected.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 09:07:11

Rick, thanks for starting this thread. I've experienced similar things while downwind and was hoping I handled them correctly. Fortunately, I don't have tide or current to further complicate things.

I've always relied on "dumping the main" when I feel that the boat is suddenly overpowered by a gust. Works well and is easy to do. I always sail with the mainsheet in my lap. But, I've found myself downwind with the main nearly against the spreaders and been unable to dump the main and suffering with lee helm making it harder to turn upwind. That's when I tell myself that I'm late setting a reef and/or furling in a bit of the genoa. (I have a 135%). Worse case, I've dumped the main and luffed the genoa to get her to stand up enough to control easily. Not good for either sail.

I've found the 250 to have a problem with lee helm when sailing the genoa alone unless the winds are moderate and steady. I seem to also have some lee helm under very light wind conditions. If I'm only using one sail, it seems to perform better under mainsail alone. Obviously, a well balanced boat with main and headsail is best.

My fears of an accidental jibe have been alleviated (a little anyway) with practice. Every time out I make a controlled jibe at least once. It's counter-intuitive to pull in the main when you're feeling overpowered but, to safely jibe, you need to have the boom as close to midline as you can. I bring in the main as I'm turning. Usually, that's slowly but, sometimes I'm hauling line like a madman. The idea is to prevent rapid acceleration of the boom once the wind crosses the leach. Once jibed, the mainsheet gets eased as fast as possible while maintaining control.

Having said all that, I had an uncontrolled jibe last Sunday as I was dead down wind wing 'n wing. But fortunately, it was in very light wind and nobody was standing in the way of the boom. The light wind caused me to be a little less attentive as I was attending to something else.

Edited by - John Russell on 10/19/2010 09:08:19

PCP777
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 11:47:33

One thing I'll say is that rarely do I sail by the lee where I'm in danger of jibing simply because of the performance impact. I usually try to keep my windex tail on the outside of the 45's. The only way I'd jibe in this circumstance is if I stop paying attention and alter course or get a sizable wind shift. Might be a longer course physically but it's much more enjoyable sailing when cruising.

Whenever we do end up going dead down wind we announce "By the lee!" and everyone prepares for the possibility of a jibe. While I find that most of the boats I've raced on will let the boom slam over in a jibe I like to pull in the sheet as we jibe and then let it out in a controlled manor. This makes it far less scary and way more controlled like John said.

Edited by - PCP777 on 10/19/2010 11:48:16

Renzo
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 12:51:19

I don't mean to be obvious, but when cruising down wind, the vang can be rigged as a preventer by moving it from the mast to a stanchion base on the leward side.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 19:38:31

Thanks for all the comments. It's comforting to know that my experience was similar to yours, and my responses were not totally wrong (even if they could use some improvement).

I had thought that I had my mainsail out as far as possible since the cloth was contacting the spreader. But a friend of mine on Facebook actually suggested that in a situation such as this I could let the main out even further. I hadn't considered the possibility. Have any of you done that (particularly with C250s)? If so, was there any damage to sail or (gulp) standing rigging from them contacting each other?

When beating, I've dumped the main and/or depowered by turning further to windward many times. But going with the wind does seem to pose some unique challenges since the sails are already let out close to their maximum.

Like some of you, I really try to avoid running if at all possible, and wing on wing is way too unstable for my current level of expertise. I like to keep the wind far enough abeam to keep the jib barely filled on the same side as the main. In this situation the jib becomes my "alarm bell" that a jibe might be imminent, because it always starts luffing if the wind (or my course) shifts to the stern. I've had only one uncontrolled jibe before, and it happened when sailing with main alone because we were approaching the marina and furled it to prepare for docking. At that point I realized how much I relied on the jib as my "alarm" and decided we would never sail downwind with the main alone.

Someday I will try the jib alone, though I've resisted it because of concern over unbalanced lee helm.

Since I have a wheel, standing at the end of the tiller with mainsheet in hand is not as easily done. But my wife has gotten very good at sensing when to spill air, and she pretty much knows exactly when I want that done without my asking. But we are both still a little confused what to do when you have the main out as far as it can/should go already. Not much left to dump in that situation!

I had already been thinking about Dave's suggestion about reducing power by sheeting in while running. I know that it really does not make you any more likely to jibe, but if you do jibe you have more opportunity to control it. We will do some experimenting with this next time we go out with manageable breezes. (Hopefully there's one good day left in this season!)

The preventer suggestion is not obvious to a newbie like me. I'm going to have to hit the books and learn more about it.

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/20/2010 14:09:23

Voyager
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 21:09:40

I checked the record at Philadelphia Int'l Airport for the 17th, here's what the wind did:

13:54 SW 13
14:54 SW 16
15:54 NW 21 G 30
16:54 NW 13
17:54 W 7
18:54 W 8

This indicated that a dry cold front passed around 4pm. Winds before the front built out of the SW, then once the front passed, it switched to NW. This frontal passage was predicted by the NWS on weather radio all morning and afternoon.

So from 1 to 4, the wind was moderately strong and building from the SW, then around 4pm, it roared out the northwest (21 continuous with 30 gusts!), and then it calmed down to 13, 7 and 8 late in the day.

Similar situation happened to me on Sunday. Strong SWerlies were churning up LI Sound (we had 5 foot breaking waves in the mouth of the river at 3), leading to gusty northwesterlies when the cold front passed.

Later in the evening, winds calmed down to a lull.

The weather has its typical patterns, and it does a sailor well to learn her ways.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Response Posted - 10/19/2010 : 22:03:32

FWIW, I'm not a fan of preventers. I'm not comfortable with the sail being "locked over" if I need to do a sudden maneuver, get a sudden shift, or make a mistake. A suddenly backwinded sail can stop the boat and kill your steerage just when you need it most. I generally sail slightly to windward rather than dead downwind or on the lee, and I'll jibe (or chicken-jibe) as needed. If I felt I needed mechanical help, I'd rig a boom brake rather than a preventer. The brake is always there--no procedures required--and it allows the boom to come across under control at any time.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/20/2010 : 06:23:55

Bruce - Can you point me to a website with that historical weather information for PHL? I had found a site with that once before, but can't find the bookmark now.

I have bookmarks to multiple weather websites, including NOAA marine forecasts, and I had checked them all day Saturday and Sunday morning prior to going out. I did not see anything about gusts to 30 mph. The forecasts that I did see were mentioned in my original post. The NWS coastal waters forecast for Philly/NJ (which I believe is the script that plays over the VHF weather channel) is typically for the very lowest part of the Delaware Bay (south of Slaughter Beach), so it often overstates the conditions that I would encounter on the protected part of the Delaware River that I sail. So over time I have tended to pay more attention to other more local forecasts and less to the NWS coastal forecast.

As I mentioned in my OP, there were apparently some small craft advisories that were issued in parts of the northeast late Sunday afternoon, but that was after I was already sailing. From everything I can see, it sounds to me like the gusts were not forecast ahead of time. But if what you are suggesting is that every time there is a wind shift from SW to NW that experienced sailors know of a likelihood of gusts, that is duly noted. But it puzzles me why the forecasters did not predict it.

Edited by - on

Renzo
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Response Posted - 10/20/2010 : 06:43:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'd rig a boom brake rather than a preventer. The brake is always there--no procedures required--and it allows the boom to come across under control at any time<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A Boom break is a good idea if you do alot of downwind sailing but using the vang as a preventer will work just as well and chances are it is already on the boat and can be rigged quickly if needed. The vang/preventer will allow the boom to come across under control also. All you have to do is release the lock while keeping tension on the vang sheet and let it run out as you jibe. Of course after the jibe is completed you have to disconect the vang and reposition it on the other side. Running dead down wind is not my favorite point of sail either but all sailors should practice it and learn how to do it safely. If not as a matter of necessity then at least for the sake of becomming a well rounded, accomplished sailor.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 10/20/2010 : 13:57:02

I learned from Paul Zell that a preventer is useful when running in steady winds. He rigs his preventer when needed, on the side with the main, of course. One place Paul sails is where the winds are often strong and steady for quite a while - "the slot" between San Francisco and Angel Island where the west wind roars in under the Golden Gate Bridge.

When I got the equipment, I rigged up 2 preventers, one for each side, and I have left them attached to the boom vang bail. On the 1978 C-25 that I have, the genoa track extends forward along the toe rail past the mast, and I have attached a standup block to an extra car on the port and starboard sides at the forward end of the genoa track. I have led the preventer lines from there back to the cockpit. I have a clam cleat on the coaming for each preventer, and they can be released in a jiffy if need be.

With calm or moderate winds up to 10 knots, tightening the mainsheet and the preventer keeps the mainsail from jibing at all. The boat can sail in a circle without touching the sails.

I have recently started belaying the preventer also when hove-to. That allows me to really relax and go below without worrying about changes in the wind direction.

In strong winds (15-25 kt) I usually don't use the preventer, and I avoid running downwind, but rather prefer to sail on a broad reach to port and then jibe to a broad reach on starboard. The boat is much more controlled on those points of sail, and probably just as fast as heading dead downwind. There's no relaxing in strong winds.

It's fun setting up your boat with a preventer, or 2 preventers, for those times you can use it.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 10/20/2010 : 14:09:53

Like John P, I also don't like to use a preventer in strong winds. In lighter winds, instead of using blocks (the boom vang), I like to use a simple piece of line to tie the boom to the aft lower stay with a slip knot, and then lead the end of it to the cockpit. If I want to gybe, then I can just tug on the line, which releases the slip knot, and allows the boom to swing across. The problem with using blocks is that you usually have to go forward to release it.

Edited by - on

Renzo
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Response Posted - 10/20/2010 : 15:58:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The problem with using blocks is that you usually have to go forward to release it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not if you have the cam cleat at the bail on the boom. Then you only have to pull the vang sheet upwards (while in the cockpit) to release it and down to re-lock. Although, I will admit it's easier to reach and do this while steering with a tiller than with a wheel.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 10/20/2010 : 20:12:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 ...I rigged up 2 preventers, one for each side, and I have left them attached to the boom vang bail. On the 1978 C-25 that I have, the genoa track extends forward along the toe rail past the mast, and I have attached a standup block to an extra car on the port and starboard sides at the forward end of the genoa track. I have led the preventer lines from there back to the cockpit. I have a clam cleat on the coaming for each preventer, and they can be released in a jiffy if need be.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That system sounds like it addresses my concerns--particularly being able to quickly release the preventer and possibly even use it to control the jibe. (...although controlling will be more difficult with this 1:1 system that has much less leverage than a 3:1 end-boom mainsheet.) I also like that it doesn't require the helmsman to "mess around" hooking up the preventer during a run. That could be the thing that causes an unexpected jibe.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/20/2010 20:18:11

Voyager
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Response Posted - 10/20/2010 : 20:46:20

Back to Rick's question to me: all last weekend I was frustrated because winds were predicted to be stronger than I'd like.

Friday and Saturday were complete washouts for LI Sound (15-25 G35) however the wind eased overnight from Saturday night into Sunday morning. On Sat, the NOAA/NWS predicted SW 5-10 for Sunday morning, building to 10-15 ahead of a dry COLD FRONT which would pass our area in the mid-late Sunday afternoon. Standard cold frontal passage.

On Sunday, I got out around 10AM and the SWerlies did build toward 2:30PM, along with building seas (4 footers cresting with occasional 5 foot couplets and triplets by mid afternoon). I watched the cumulus clouds build up as the front approached, then clear, and when it did, the wind suddenly started gusting out of the NW.

I could see black water coming my way from the opposite direction. With my handheld wind gauge I measured a few gusts up to 30. Soon, the SW waves combined with NW waves and confused seas resulted. I packed it in, furled sail and came back upriver at that point. Funny thing, after the wind switch and the short blow, conditions calmed considerably, which was evidenced in the NWS records.

The three-day record for weather conditions is on the NOAA site. You go to www.weather.gov, then in the City, State box you put in your area (Philadelphia or Dover, etc) On the resulting page you get a local map, then you click on the exact spot you want a forecast for. You'll get a seven day forecast for that locale.

If you scroll down this page below the map you get the CURRENT CONDITIONS. It reports conditions at the local airport or reporting station.
At the bottom of the section you'll see: More Local Wx: . . . . . . 3 Day History:

If you click on the first you will be able to check conditions are a variety of reporting stations. If you click on 3 day history, you get the record of conditions at that spot. That's where I got the readings.

BTW, I like to tack downwind on a broad reach too, and use an S-gybe to swing the main. I always hand swing the boom across when doing an intentional gybe. For accidental gybes, well . . . I duck.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/21/2010 : 05:11:36

Thanks for the guided tour of the NWS site. I was always clicking to the "Marine Forecast" link from the main page. This did not provide the same historical summary that you were getting from the local forecasts.

By an "S-gybe" I assume you mean that you oversteer slightly to ensure the boom crosses over without hesitating, then you steer back to a more moderate course? If not, please describe.

My wife and I have discussed what to do to reduce the violence of accidental jibes. It would seem that as the boom crosses over one could pull the mainsheet somewhere between the blocks (like pulling on a bow of a bow and arrow or plucking on a guitar string), then release it gradually as the boom reaches the end of its travel to damp the sudden stress at the end. Is that considered effective and safe?

There have been times when coming about in strong breezes that I have grabbed the end of the boom from behind the wheel as it crosses over to slow it down just a bit and reduce some of the vibrations as the sail luffs violently. Without doing this it would seem to "bounce" a couple times as it reaches the end of its travel. So a little braking action can be very effective, although I would not attempt this by hand during a jibe. But rigging a brake could be the best way to do this.

If Dave could link a description of how to rig a brake that would be great!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Response Posted - 10/21/2010 : 06:22:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 If Dave could link a description of how to rig a brake that would be great!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm not your guy for the details... Check Wichard's and Dutchman's sites--they are the two makers of the key components that I'm aware of. I've just discussed this with both of them at boat shows (and watched their demos). It does involve a line from both coamings, side-decks or the cabin-top to a piece of hardware on a bail on the boom. The setup is simple, but the geometry is critical.

An "S-jibe" from a dead run starts with briefly heading to a broad reach where you can safely sheet in to the centerline, turning back to an opposite broad reach to perform the jibe with the sheet hardened, and then turning back down-wind as you ease the sheet. (Maybe it should be called a $ jibe.) Those of us who prefer broad reaches can jibe with one turn instead of three.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/21/2010 06:28:40

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/21/2010 : 06:38:44

Thanks, I'll check out those sites.

I have no experience with hard vangs, but from a distance they appear to have hydraulics similar to a shock absorber. Do they provide a braking effect from the damping action? Not sure I would want to invest the $$$ for a hard vang, but it could be a lot cleaner than adding yet another trip hazard to the cabin top.

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
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Response Posted - 10/21/2010 : 11:10:45

Rick,
On the Narragansett and Buzzards bays, I have found that fall sailing is an entirely different beast than summer sailing. Instead of more predictable wind from the sea, (S, SE) less predictable land winds from the W, NW seem to prevail. I have been in your shoes many times. I may be overly philosophical, but I find that a good sailing experience really depends on my expectations. If I expect to be jostled, and prepare my crew to be jostled I'm okay. If I expect predictable winds on a fall day I may be frustrated and rattled. Fortunately it is very easy to spill the main in our boats (unlike the C-350 where you sometimes have to put the helm on autopilot in order to go forward to spill the main). Unfortunately our boats are a bit... "tender." Have fun but expect gusty weather and a floppy boat.

Vern Wright

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 10/21/2010 : 20:49:36

Well ladies and gentlemen, we're in for another episode of Adventures in Gusty Winds this weekend in the Northeast. Today we had strong NWerlies that will continue until Saturday. The strong gradient will provide a windy situation in the Northeast.

While not as bad as last weekend, it will still present interesting conditions. Saturday afternoon looks like 10-15 G20. As Vern says it should be fun in gusty weather with a floppy boat.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/22/2010 : 10:25:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Well ladies and gentlemen, we're in for another episode of Adventures in Gusty Winds this weekend in the Northeast. Today we had strong NWerlies that will continue until Saturday. The strong gradient will provide a windy situation in the Northeast.

While not as bad as last weekend, it will still present interesting conditions. Saturday afternoon looks like 10-15 G20. As Vern says it should be fun in gusty weather with a floppy boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Now you're playing with my head. I don't see this in my part of the northeast. Am I looking at the wrong part of the forecast? I see no sign of gusts at all:

Weather.gov says:

Saturday: Sunny, with a high near 64. West wind between 6 and 13 mph.

Saturday Night: Mostly cloudy, with a low around 52. West wind between 5 and 8 mph becoming calm.

Sunday: Partly sunny, with a high near 73. Calm wind becoming southwest between 6 and 9 mph.

wunderground.com says:

This Afternoon
NW winds 20 to 25 kt with gusts up to 30 kt. Seas 1 to 2 ft.
Tonight
NW winds 10 to 15 kt with gusts to 20 kt...becoming W 5 to 10 kt after midnight. Seas 1 to 2 ft.
Sat
W winds 5 to 10 kt...becoming SW 10 to 15 kt in the afternoon. Seas 1 to 2 ft.
Sat Night
SW winds 5 to 10 kt. Seas 1 foot or less.

Weather.com and accuweather.com both show similar forecasts for Saturday, with no mention of gusts at all that day. Are we that different down here near Philly, or am I missing something in these forecasts?

Personal commitments may keep me from sailing until Sunday anyway, but I see no sign that these gusts will continue until Saturday.

Maybe the forecast has changed since your post? Or your weather is different further north?

Edited by - TakeFive on 10/22/2010 10:30:00

Voyager
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Response Posted - 10/22/2010 : 11:21:21

Yes the forecasts are always being tweaked and updated. The prose forecast can be general.
To get a graphical time view of the forecast, I frequently use the NOAA Graphical Forecast maps.

Here's one for Philadelphia, NJ and DE.
[url="http://www.weather.gov/forecasts/wfo/sectors/phi.php#tabs"]Philadelphia Digital Forecast[/url]

While the sources of the information on the NOAA pages are pretty much all the same, the meteorologist who interprets the information for the forecasts are not. The prose forecast states " Sunny, with a high near 65. West wind between 5 and 13 mph"

The digital forecast provides the following info at Philadelphia:

Time......Speed.....Dir....Gust
11AM........8........W......13
2PM........11........W......17
5PM........10......WSW....16

Granted, it's nothing like last weekend.
But where I am in CT I will see NW winds of 10-15 with gusts of 20. Should be exciting.

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