Association Forum - Storage charges

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Storage charges

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/23/2010 : 17:24:37

I had my boat hauled yesterday and put on its trailer for winter storage at the marina. According to their contract, the price of winter storage (outside) includes lift out. It used to also include bottom power wash. That now costs $2.25/linear foot.

Here's what I don't understand. Loading it on my trailer costs an additional $75. So, I get it lifted in the air as part of the storage price. I guess, if I didn't want to buy the "load on the trailer" part it could just hang in the lift all winter

Doesn't it make sense that "lift out" would include doing something with the boat afterward? Does anybody else pay a lift-out fee then an additional load-trailer fee?

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - John Russell on 10/23/2010 17:33:10

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2010 : 19:02:42

That, my friend, is when they've got you literally over a barrel.
Could you opt for being loaded on jack-stands or poppets instead of a trailer?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2010 : 19:24:19

I would ask if they charge to put it on a cradle or stands; if so, then I guess you are stuck. In my limited experience with 3 marinas, lift out includes putting it down on something and launch presumes that the boat will be lifted off a cradle, trailer, or stands.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2010 : 20:12:02

When I have the marina launch/lift, it includes everything from parked at one end to parked at the other.

Its also a lot more expensive than you are quoting. Last time the marina launched us on the travel lift it cost about $250 IIRC. Extra on top of that if you want them to deal with the mast.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2010 : 07:34:12

I checked on having my boat pulled and dropped on the trailer several months ago and it was going to cost like $300.00 yet I could get a quick haul with pressure wash for like $150.00.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2010 : 08:03:09

$250 - $300 to to get lifted in or out?

Edited by - Nautiduck on 10/24/2010 08:09:42

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2010 : 09:46:27

Randy, I don't have enough truck.

It's not the cost that bugs me as much as the fact that, to a reasonable person, lift out is finished when the boat is securely on the trailer. I just wish if they say lift out and lift in is included in the price, it made sense. If I were managing the marina, I'd bury that $75 in the winter storage fee or stop saying it's included in the fee. Then, people like me wouldn't feel as if they're being taken for a ride.

I will add, however, that they move the trailer from the well and park it in the storage yard. The crew is also very helpful with little details like parking it with enough rear clearance to allow for de-masting, among other things.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2010 : 09:47:23

John, maybe the $75 is a nominal fee to put it on your trailer rather than a larger fee to store it on their cradle or jack stands.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2010 : 10:10:21

David, you're probably right. All the cradles are owned by the boat owners. I don't know what/if they charge to load on the cradle. Having watched the process, it really involves a lot more work. I hope they charge accordingly. They rent boat stands but I don't recall the cost.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2010 : 10:21:58

John, Is there a public jetty/wharf anyplace near you?

If so you might want to look into the cost of renting a crane with a bunch of fellow sailors. In our club this fall 10 of us went in on a crane and it was a big savings. This is the third time I have been in on the crane rental and it gets better/faster/more efficient every time. We did all 10 boats in under 2 hours this year, 3 of them needed masts done by the crane as well.

I also don't have a truck that is up to any boat related tasks. Pulling, launching, retrieving, so for me it makes a lot of sense to get in on the crane lift. I hire a towtruck to bring the boat home. I store it at the house for free. Total cost of liftout this year was under $200. Had I gone to a marina the travel lift alone would have cost more.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2010 : 11:10:49

In our marina we put out almost all boats (~ 20) by rented crane and it costs $17 per boat.

This is mine C25 undercover :)

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2010 : 11:35:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 $250 - $300 to to get lifted in or out?

No lift at our club but when we go to [url="http://www.portofanacortes.com/boaters_info.shtml"]Cap Sante Boat Haven[/url] in Anacortes, WA they lift us in and out. Charge is $32.50 one way or $55 round trip. That is on and off the trailer but the mast must be down.

John, is there a ramp in your area that is in good shape and long enough for a strap launch?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I just checked one of the places again and their rate is $322.50 to haul, block, and relaunch. Subtract $1.00/ft from the haul rate, which is not listed, to go from the water to the trailer. Based on the above I'm assuming the haul rate is half the round trip price - $25.00 so I'm looking at approx. $150 to load from water to trailer.

Bottom jobs are $30/ft which includes haul, block, launch, pressure wash, and 2 coats of ablative anti-foulant. Must use in-house paint. I haven't called to see what they use.

Edited by - GaryB on 10/24/2010 11:41:27

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 04:44:30

You have probably thought of this already but, it seems to me you could rent an "appropriate" truck for a day for less than the cost of the haul out and take the boat home. You could probably throw in a rented power washer and wash your bottom when you put the boat on the trailer.

Regarding trucks, there's been much said regarding this subject and most agree that the minimum size should be a 1/2 ton. However, when new I hauled my boat from Milwaukee to my home 400 miles away with an F-150 at highway speeds. I also hauled it for 18 years to and from the ramp, launched and retrieved, with a Chevy 1500 1/4 ton Silverado. No strain. No muss or fuss. So when they say that "size matters" bigger may be better but not always "appropriate" or necessary.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 07:56:31

Actually, I did think of it. The costs involved would be more than the costs of leaving it at the marina since I can't store it in my yard. My town requires that it not be seen from the street so I'd have to rent storage space anyway. That cost, plus truck rental, etc., would be more than simply leaving it at the marina.

BTW, I won't pull a 6500 pound trailer with a 1/2 ton truck. Not enough stopping power. But, that's a discussion for another thread.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 08:25:53

As I reread my previous post I meant to say the concensus is for a 3/4 ton truck, I pulled with a 1/2 ton.

Brakes should not be a problem so long as the hydrolic or electric brakes on the trailer are functiong properly.

I guess I've been spoiled the last 22 years. I've been able to store my boat next to the house and moor off my lake front. I guess all the money I could have spent on marina space and haul-out went into equipment upgrades, which are conciderable.

Edited by - aeckhart on 10/25/2010 08:30:31

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 10:02:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Actually, I did think of it. The costs involved would be more than the costs of leaving it at the marina since I can't store it in my yard. My town requires that it not be seen from the street so I'd have to rent storage space anyway. That cost, plus truck rental, etc., would be more than simply leaving it at the marina.

BTW, I won't pull a 6500 pound trailer with a 1/2 ton truck. Not enough stopping power. But, that's a discussion for another thread.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Every now and then I get a mistly look in my eyes over some boat-worthy truck on craigslist, then I do the math and it doesn't make sense to pay insurance and maintenance on a truck to pull the boat twice a year. You should really call the local tow truck driver and ask what his price is.

As for the bylaw, are you going on hearsay, or have you actually looked it up? I know you are a smart person, but so often I hear things interpreted differently by different folks. Bylaws in most "harbour towns" around here allow for one boat in the yard as long as it doesn't block sightlines on the street. There are sometimes height limitations and shadowcasting can be an issue.

It may be worth a visit to your local planning department to get clarification. Don't ask "Can I store a boat in my yard," rather, ask "How large of a boat can I store in my yard?" then ask to see the zoning bylaw specific to your property. Just so you know what is allowed exactly.

You may be able to get away with a temporary shelter. Two of the 10 X 12 canvas garages end to end set up on blocks. Cost over a few years should work out cheaper, and the convenience of having the boat right there to work on is nice.

If you want to PM me with what town you are in I can try to navigate the zoning bylaw for you. Some of them are pretty confusing.

ETA - I looked up the location in your signature. Its codified ordinances show that:

1373.01 STORAGE IN FRONT OF BUILDING LINE; EXCEPTIONS.

No person shall store, keep or maintain in any residential district in the City any of the following objects: self-propelled camper, house trailer, boat trailer, boat, camper trailer, or any other object mounted on wheels and designed to be towed or trailed, unless the same is stored, kept or maintained within a garage or other enclosed accessory structure permitted by Zoning Ordinance of the City, or unless such object is stored, kept, or maintained in the rear yard area, provided that the object may be stored in the front yard area if the house setback is at least one hundred feet from the street the house faces. In no event shall any such object be stored, kept or maintained less than twelve feet from any property line or less than thirty feet from any abutting street, and any such object so stored, kept or maintained shall be titled to the owner or resident of such property. The temporary storage of such objects for the purpose of loading or unloading for periods not to exceed seventy-two hours within a twenty-one day period shall not be deemed unlawful under the provisions of this section. (Ord. 05-137. Passed 12-12-05.) http://www.conwaygreene.com/BVillage/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-hit-h.htm&2.0

So they are pretty tight on it there. I would still look into the workaround of a temporary structure to house the boat. Those garages are supercheap now. Maybe you could slide one in on a sideyard. Also, there is no mention of the "not visible from the street rule" that you mentioned. Your enforcement branch may look differently on what rear yard and sideyard is than I do, but to me this says as long as the boat is not ahead of the front wall of the house, you are good to go.

Edited by - Prospector on 10/25/2010 10:18:57

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 10:31:05

My lift out on Wednesday, pressure wash the bottom, drop on the trailer, and park the trailer where I could get to it to bring Pearl home on Saturday was $154. I dropped and secured the mast and fittings, but it is $3/foot if they do it; when they drop it, they remove and coil the standing rigging and secure everything so I just hook up the trailer and drive away - a handy $100 when I'm pressed for time.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 10:34:33

PS

Launch is free if I pay for next year's slip by the end of the year. They also bring Pearl from my slip to the well and return her on launch if I'm not available.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 11:05:32

hah...our marina - on top of everything else - charges $75 to bring the boat from the well to your slip...oh, and yes, the haul out and launch are not scheduled, so there's no way to know when and be available to move the boat yourself...B.O.A.T - break out another thousand...

Edited by - jerlim on 10/25/2010 11:06:25

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 11:38:08

Yep, Chris, that's the one I read too. I shortened it all to can't be seen from the street instead of all the verbage about buildings and rear yard. The way my house is situated, the only place I could park anything is in the driveway that abuts my neighbor's property line. The entire length of the drive is visible from the street and I'd have no place to park my cars. Garage, yeah right, haven't seen the floor of that in years. Besides, the boat would block the entrance.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 13:15:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Garage, yeah right, haven't seen the floor of that in years<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I know what you mean, I have one just like it. Walking in the garage is like playing Hop-Scotch!

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2010 : 19:59:22

Oh well, not much to be done then. I tried. Guess they've got you over a barrel.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2010 : 06:33:16

Here we have a lot of mini warehouse storage facilities with parking spaces for campers, boats, etc., especially near apartment complexes. Are those a possibility for you?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2010 : 07:43:34

Yes, but the cost of space and truck rental, make it at least equal and probably higher than the cost of the marina. Besides, the winter storage costs are reasonable at the marina. Even the $75 "load on trailer for storage" fee is OK. My issue is that they say haul out is included but that doesn't include loading the trailer, just the lift out. That doesn't pass the logic test. If I were to have it hauled and loaded on the trailer for storage at another place, the cost is $150.

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2010 : 15:39:35

John am I missing something here. If the ordinance that Prospector quoted actually applies to your home, it specifically states: "or unless such object is stored, kept, or maintained in the rear yard area" It doesn't say anything about not being seen from the street (because it also sates: "provided that the object may be stored in the front yard area if the house setback is at least one hundred feet from the street the house faces.")it only goes on to say that if it is stored such it must meet the minimum setback requirements. But setbacks are not visual restrictions.
It seems to me that if you can physically fit your boat into your back yard and meet the setback requirements you should be good to go according to the ordinance that Prospector quotes.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2010 : 16:38:27

Steve, you're right but.... it's the intent of the regulation. They want it in the back yard ergo, not seen from the street. " My setback is less that 50'. That point becomes moot when you consider that I would be parking a 30' x 8.5' x 12' monstrosity in the park-like backyard that my neighbors and I enjoy. Our yards are not fenced and the overall effect is quite nice. The cost of neighbor dis-harmony is more than I want to afford.

That all becomes secondary to the fact that my marina winter storage is still cheaper than renting a truck, paying lift-out fees and the other associated expenses that I'd incur. The point of my gripe wasn't about cost but rather the shady (deceptive??) billing practice that I've described.

Edited by - John Russell on 10/26/2010 16:40:16

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.