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Winter storage with bow slightly up?

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/31/2010 : 20:09:18

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superbob
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Response Posted - 11/01/2010 : 06:46:12

Rick:

You wrote: "Two degrees does not sound like much, but actually it is a LOT:

25*12*tan(2*pi*2/360) = 10.5 inches"

WHO SAYS SIZE or two degrees DOESN'T MATTER? :)

And:

"Does your cockpit drain out through your scupper and/or transom cutaway? Around here I worry about ice damage to any area that does not drain properly, so the opposite drainage of the bow and cockpit make for a narrow window. (Probably not a problem where you are.)"

Mine is the same design as yours with the same provisions for draining the cockpit. And yes, only rain here with a once in blue moon snow storm. Whatever falls usually melts in a couple of days.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 11/01/2010 : 12:01:31

I was not suggesting that it was unimportant. I was just surprised, after doing the calculation, that a couple of degrees amounted to so many inches of adjustment.

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superbob
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Response Posted - 11/01/2010 : 12:17:11

It was a tongue in cheek . . . man/woman deal I was thinking about. . . and not really boat nose up or down....Sorry for the mixup.....<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 I was not suggesting that it was unimportant. I was just surprised, after doing the calculation, that a couple of degrees amounted to so many inches of adjustment.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 11/01/2010 : 17:29:44

Thaks for bringing this up. My yard guys parked my trailer bow high and I didn't think a lot of it. After reading this, I went out and lowered the bow a bit and set the tongue on someedunnage rather than on the little front wheel sind the winch on that doesn't have any locking device. It simply stays where it stops. I don't trust that for long term storage.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 11/02/2010 : 15:05:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by superbob
 It was a tongue in cheek . . . man/woman deal I was thinking about. . . and not really boat nose up or down....Sorry for the mixup.....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oops, I was in too much of a hurry and failed to get your joke. Sometimes I'm just dense.

FYI, the boat is now perfectly level, and the water in the gutter drains out the anchor locker. I'm going to have to work on getting more ballast in the bow so she will sit on her lines when in the water. I know it's going to take at least 200 pounds more than I have there now, because it did not drain out before when I was standing on the bow.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 05:40:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 The cockpit should drain out the scuppers and/or transom cutout. The boat should not tilt forward enough to accumulate water in the cockpit. Really, I think the easiest thing is to lower the mast, use it as a tent frame and tarp the whole thing. Developing a gin-pole setup will be something that you will appreciate for many reasons. If not this year then consider it as an off-season project.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
OK, I'm starting to think about accelerating my gin pole construction so I can lower my mast for the whole season. My boat has never had a mast raising system, so I've got several things to do:
<ul><li>First, I do not have a crutch on the stern. Since I have a wheel the rudder is not easy to remove - but not impossible either. Would you suggest I remove the rudder and use the current gudgeons, or put new gudgeons specically for a crutch? Any suggested source to buy a crutch, or design specs to build my own? Alternatively, how about just putting a sawhorse on top of the cockpit seats to set the mast on?</li><li>I have a masthead VHF antenna with a through-deck fitting. Unfortunately this fitting merely provides a watertight penetration - the cable is continuous through the fitting. There is currently no way to disconnect the cable to allow moving the mast base forward to the bow pulpit. Any suggestions of an appropriate connector that I could use to break the cable?</li><li>I think I saw Randy's PVC support to go into the mast step, so I'll copy that. Could someone post a link to that message, since I can't find it right now.</li><li>For the gin pole, what are the relative pluses and minuses to using a block and tackle vs. a winch?</li><li>I don't have the wire "baby stays" although I do have the cutouts in my mast about 6' up for them (as well as the loops in my stanchions). Do I really need to get wire stays for this (expensive!), or could I just use ratcheted tie-down straps with hooks at the end? Although the nylon webbing is more "stretchy" than wire, it would seem that for such a short run length the nylon would be stiff enough.</li>
</ul>
I'm still not sure I can get all this done before the winter, but I'm going to try. Even if I don't, I need to address these issues next spring when I would like to drop the mast.

Edited by - TakeFive on 11/04/2010 06:01:33

John Russell
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 07:50:02

Rick, I'm assuming that your trailer isn't the typical one for the C250 with the "crane" on the front used for mast-lowering? And you don't have the "baby stays"? Check these videos out: http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22481

My PO created crutches out of pressure treated 4"x4" and some 1"x4" pieces at the base to form a "T" to make it stand alone and 1"x4" pieces at either side of the top to form the cradle for the mast. It's tall enought to allow standing head room in the cockpit. It stands in the cockpit in the winter. It has a matching (although much shorter) twin that stands on deck to support the mast at the front. No, there's no standing head room up there but there is sufficient room for an adult to easily crawl around if needed. I wouldn't trailer with them but it makes a great support to use the mast as a ridge pole for tenting the boat in the winter.

If I can overcome the technology, I'll try to post a picture.

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superbob
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 08:24:18

Rick:

This is what you're looking for:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20277&SearchTerms=PVC

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 09:31:01

Bob - Thanks for sharing that. I know someone posted that link in the last couple weeks, but I wasn't able to find it.

John - I have no trailer, hence no crane. Boat stays in the water the whole season, and in a boat yard off-season. I don't have a vehicle that is nearly big enough to pull it on a trailer.

I was planning to build a single gin pole similar to what Randy (I think) previously described. (I think I have those links around somewhere.) I had previously seen the video you linked, but watching it again gives me a few ideas. The A-frame method (two poles to the stanchions) would seem to solve the side-to-side stability issue, and also keeps the forestay/furler out of the way. But is there a reason you can't attach the forestay to the single gin pole, and straps (or baby stays) between the mast about 6' up and the stanchions?

Also, after watching the video, it makes me wonder whether you need the collar under the spreaders to control lowering/raising the mast, or could just attach the forestay to the gin pole and use that? Is there something about the geometry of the C250 that makes the leverage unacceptable compared to the C25? Maybe Randy or someone else who has used the gin pole on a C250 can jump in with suggestions.

Edited by - TakeFive on 11/04/2010 09:32:57

superbob
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 09:36:04

Rick: Dial in "gin pole" in the search box to the left of this page. You'll find a lot of comments in reference to lowering the mast.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 09:41:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by superbob
 Rick: Dial in "gin pole" in the search box to the left of this page. You'll find a lot of comments in reference to lowering the mast.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That works much better. I had entered "gin pole" into the search link on the right side of the page, and got a ridiculous number of irrelevant hits.

Edit: I just realized that I forgot to click "Match exact phrase" because Firefox had a drop-down menu that covered it up. Clicking that narrows down the hits appropriately.

I have previously read all of those gin pole threads, and do not recall anyone addressing the question of whether to use the forestay to control the mast instead of the harness under the spreaders. I'll re-read them tonight, but if the answer is not there I would appreciate any comments on the relative merits of each approach.

Edited by - TakeFive on 11/04/2010 09:45:09

superbob
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 09:50:51

How about this:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21203

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18198

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19297

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 12:01:24

Rick, take a look at these.

The lowering process.
Stepping the Mast Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

This one will help with the parts.

Stepping the mast Part Two -- Component Parts Close Up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLxujYRsMQ&feature=related

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 11/04/2010 : 12:35:36

I use a gin pole when we raise and lower the mast on the water. We have used the jib halyard and the mast collar and both worked. I prefer the mast collar because I think it puts less stress on the whole operation due to the better angle plus that is the approach that Catalina took with their mast raising system and I figure they know best. Still, the jib halyard works and many people use that method with a gin pole.

We use a winch that is affixed the the gin pole. A line goes from the pole to the mast (collar or jib halyard) and the winch line goes to the eye in the anchor locker. Crank the winch and the gin pole levers down towards the deck bringing the mast up with it. Works great. Works great in reverse too. Be sure to use the baby stays to provide lateral stability - that essentially turns it into an A-frame. Catalina sells the baby stays and mast collar.

I suggest you add a second set up gudgeons for the transom mast crutch. We leave our rudder on and it is easier that way. Make one out of a 2X2 or buy one from Catalina. The advantage of the stock one is that it is adjustable - one height for winter storage and one for road travel.

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 11/05/2010 : 12:37:03

Use one of these for your coax. You'll need to cut the cable and add a couple of connection fittings.

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=11151&partNumber=540732&langId=-1"]Cable Clam[/url]

Edited by - Nautiduck on 11/05/2010 12:38:37

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