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Which outboard and why?

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nate
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240 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/25/2002 : 09:39:40

It seems my O/B is reaching the end of it's servicable life. It's an 9.9 Yamaha of the 1987 vintage. When it runs it's nice but over the last year I have had a few problems and I'm starting to think it's time to replace vs repair.
I went back in the archives and researched the outboard debate and found alot of useful info....I plan on buying a 4-stroke, long shaft with electric start. So here is my question:
Honda seems to be the hands down favorite.....why? What about the other brands of motors....Mercury, Nissan, ect? They seemed to receive little support from C25 owners, are they inferior to Honda/Yamaha? I plan to have my boat for several more years until the Air Force stops moving us around, so I wand a good, dependable motor that will last a decade or more. Thanks in advance for any input.

Nate Adams
C25 #5695 WK/SR/Trad
"Heeling Properties"
Lake Mead, NV

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karentc
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 10:35:49

Hi!
I don't know much about motors except that everyone in my area seems to rave about the newer Honda 9.9's, from non-technical dingy users to very-techy-sailboat owners. I am in the process of purchasing one and can contribute the following rave reviews: My techy-friend (Captain, teaches sailing, has had a Catalina 25 for 10 years) bought a new HOnda 9.9 a year and a half ago and he said it was the best money he had spent on his boat thus far. Always starts, no problem, charges the batteries beautifully, etc. On the longevity side, the dealer in Canada that I am buying my motor from said that he sold five of them to a camp up there and they have not had to be serviced in 10 years, any of them. That I would not have to do anything other than an occasional once-over and that the camp was extremely happy with their purchase, still.
Wish I could give you more technical info but all I have is great testimonials. I don't have much of a choice as my motor has run rough since I bought it and after three overhauls I am ready for a new, dependable motor. Best of luck!!!!

Karen Christensen
Moondance
Traverse City, Michigan

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 10:58:16

I think when you talk Honda verses Yamaha it comes down to bias. I'm a big Honda product fan, have owned their cars, motorcycles and currently a lawn mower - but, I own a Yamaha outboard based on what performance and satisfaction data was available when I bought it in 1995.

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 12:35:47

osmepneo came with Honda 8 pull start and has never worked to my satifaction. Hard to start. Won't run at low idle. Stalls at the most ackward times. Everyone at my club is shocked when they hear the litany of problems I've had with this *&^%*&* thing.

This fall I took it off the boat and took it to the local Honda dealer for servicing. Haven't heard from him as yet, but right now I'm not a proponent of Honda o/b's. Would be interesting in knowing if there are other closet anti-Honda o/bers out there or did I truly get the lemon?

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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Douglas
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Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 12:58:08

OSMEPNEO sounds like the previous owner let the engine stand with gas in it over a long period of time. The biggest draw back of the Honda is if you let it sit over the winter with fuel in it the idle jet varnishes up or eventualy varnish from the fuel bowl finds its way to the idle jet. This causes hard starting and poor or no idle. In addition to that problem if you opperate in salt water you need to flush the engine regularly. Its easy to do on the new Honda ever since they stole my tech tip. See the C-25 Tech tips at the bottom of the list Wind Lass on How to flush a honda. If you dont flush then after a year or to the salt builds up around the thermostat ports and blocks the cooling water port. Easy fix by removing the thermostat cover and cleaning. Both of the above problems can happen on any outboard. So with a little loving care your Honda will last for 30 or more years. I have had two. One stolen 1983 9.9 and a 1999 8 Hp. I bought the 8 Hp with 25 hours on it for 1400 dollars. I would not get anything except Honda.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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Arlyn Stewart
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2984 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 12:59:02

Nate, The trend toward 4 strokes as well as the not so far back backruptcy of Evinrude/Johnson played into the lean toward Honda/Yamaha.

In late 80's and early 90's Honda had problems with coolant clogs in head in salt water environment... Yamaha almost exclusively got the sales for salt water for a while.

That is supposed to be fixed. Yamaha has added a power tilt to their motor and sailors don't seem to be as excited about it as the extra couple inches of shaft length they get from the Honda.

Another point on the Honda.... the 8 and 9.9 are same motor except the 9.9 developes another 500-1000 rpms (the 8 ships with a throttle restricter). Everyone who buys the 8...say they never run full rpm's anyway... and are happy to have kept the extra boat units in their pocket.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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nate
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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 13:48:06

Arlyn,
Can I buy 8hp in a long-shaft? The Honda web site only showed a longer shaft available on the 9.9
Nate

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 14:23:54

Doug,

I suspect you are right about the previous owner letting the motor sit with fuel in the line. The consequences you described are mine to a "T."

When I use the motor, I always drain the fuel line (let it run out) and if I don't use the gas in a month or two I take it home, put in my lawn tractor and use it in a couple of hours. I try to be diligent about maintaining good gas for my Honda.

This past summer I started playing with two set screws, not entirely sure what they are for, and that seemed to help, for a while.

Several years ago I replaced a corroded thermostat and that seemed to help for a while. osmepneo used to be a salt water boat, before I bought her, and before we moved to an upstate NY lake.

We'll see what the service folks say when I get the motor back in the spring

Thanks for your information.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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416 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 15:06:53

Nate I have a Honda 8 hp 2001 with a extra long shaft. The 8 and 9.9 are identical except for price and rpm needed to generate the hp.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major

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gerdo
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Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 15:06:56

I have a 1988 honda 8 hp that stalls all the time, will not low idle. I rebuilt carburator and it fixed that for a while. Will tear down this winter and replace thermo and water pump impeller and possibly replace carburator. usually starts on second pull but will not low idle. Am very frustrated with it.

Yamaha 8 is available with electric start and electric tilt.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2002 : 21:13:41

At risk of repeating myself one to many times, I felt good about both the Honda and Yamaha 8 high thrust models--both co.s have been making 4-strokes for a lot of years. The single feature that swung me to Honda was the external pull starter--for those unexpected situations where the battery lets you down. To pull-start the Yamaha, you must remove the cowling, unbolt the flywheel cover with a socket wrench, and find the emergency pull cord in that "special place where you put it so you'd never lose it." This could be while drifting into the rocks somewhere...

Bonuses with the Honda are, as mentioned above, a longer shaft (including on the 8) and stronger alternator. A question-mark is the automatic choke, which has worked flawlessly for me in its first season--the motor starts so quickly I virtually just tap the starter button. One small negative--a design flaw I think they're fixing--is the plastic throttle damper assembly. Mine won't hold at lower rpms where the motor vibrates--only at cruising rpms where it smoothes out. The dealer got a bulletin about it from Honda--I suspect there are some new parts coming out.

The Merc/Nissan/Tohatsu engine is shorter, heavier, lacks a high-thrust option, and is a newcomer to the market. That's all I needed to know about them.

BTW, I won't argue with anyone about the benefits of a 2-stroke, especially regarding weight. If you use the motor sparingly, that's a good option. If you expect to get from here to there by motor from time to time, the 4-stroke is very nice. Your mileage may vary.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 05:49:33

gerdo,

"I hear your pain!"

Maybe it's past sins, by a PO or . . .. But it sure is frustrating! Sorry that you have so much trouble with your O/B, but it is comforting to I'm not alone.

Hope the work you're doing this winter helps.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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416 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 07:14:18

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>. One small negative--a design flaw I think they're fixing--is the plastic throttle damper assembly. Mine won't hold at lower rpms where the motor vibrates--only at cruising rpms where it smoothes out. The dealer got a bulletin about it from Honda--I suspect there are some new parts coming out.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Dave that is an active recall for Honda. Shortly after we discussed this topic last summer I checked into it and the dealers (at least in our area) have the recall notice. I took mine in at the first chance I got, no charge for this repair/modification. I am happy to report it had worked perfect up until I took the boat out of the water in Oct. I am still having the starting problem, however and the dealer thinks that problem is caused by air getting into the gas line. On one of my last outings we noticed a little gas leaking out from around one of the hose clamps. They are getting me a new line and we will see next spring if thats it. Otherwise the Honda has been fantastic and I have had to use that pull chord. The motor will start even with a dead battery. One final note I am very glad I got the extra long shaft (per previous discussions on this forum <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>) despite the dealer trying to talk me out of it. On one of my side trips to Lake Erie we found ourselves in 4' waves with 20 knot winds while comming out of the channel and even with the extra long shaft the prop broke the surface once or twice.

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major

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WGriswold
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 14:06:09

I had the same problems described here with my 1986 7.5 hp Honda. Hard to impossible to start and unable to idle without stalling. I had the carb cleaned twice and then decided that I had to learn to fix it myself or get a second job. My problem was a clogged idle port. I discovered a screw next to the idle misture adjustment screw that seemed to lead to the port. I could take out the idle adjuctment screw and the screw that led to the port and spray in carb cleaner and then compressed air and the problem would be solved for a few hours. I finally replaced the whole fuel delivery system (tank, hose and pump leading to engine, fuel line and fuel filter inside cover). I have had no trouble since. It's back to behaving like the Honda it was. I was so frustrated that I replaced the fuel delivery system all at once so I don't know which component was shedding and clogging the idle port. Maybe the metal tank was rusting or the rubber was detoriating or ?. This is worth a try when you consider the cost of a new motor.

Wait Griswold
C25, Lake Tahoe

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Rob Poirier
Deckhand

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Canada
23 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 14:50:38

I seem to be the only 25/250 owner who has a 9.9 Suzuki "Sail" which is a long shaft. The outboard is a 1995, 2 stroke with electric start and I don't have to pre mix fuel and oil! It has been absolutely trouble free and all I've ever done is change the plug every spring. I've read many postings on outboards and just thought that my Suzuki has earned a positive mention.

Rob Poirier
C250 WB #44
"Bula Matari"
Kingston,ON

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Tom Coleman
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 11/26/2002 : 22:02:56

Nate, I bought a new Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke, high thrust, XL shaft in May of 2001 and have been very happy with it. I too investigated the Honda outboards, but decided on the Yamaha due to good recommendations and a little lower price. So far, no complaints. Good luck.

Tom Coleman
C250wb
"Kalya"
Salt Lake City

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 11:04:48

Wait (and others): My dealer's standard winter service for my Honda includes flushing out both the gas tank and the fuel line--I guess I now know why.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 11:24:43

Ya'll,

I have a Johnson 9,9 extra long shaft with alternator, Circa '93. The best dang Johnson I've ever owned and I'd buy another If they were available, not that I need one just as a back-up should I be faced with the prospects of having to trade elsewhere. Trouble free and boy did I push my luck...original plugs...never flushed it till last year...rebuilt the fuel pump two years ago but other than that NO PROBLEMO. Hope I haven't invited Poseidon's wrath.
Val on "CALISTA" # 3936

Val Bisagni

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Buzz Maring
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1775 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 11:35:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Ya'll, ... The best dang Johnson I've ever owned ... NO PROBLEMO ...
Val on "CALISTA" # 3936
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Holy cow Val! Are you going "Southern" on us?!

BTW, it's spelled "Y'all" ... HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

Buzz Maring, C-25 SK/SR #68, "Freya"

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 11:37:28

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Ya'll,...
...NO PROBLEMO.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Val, you Texan, you: That'll be the last time that Johnson starts for ya! Have you shoveled Calista? Let's see a shot of the snow on the dodger!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 12:08:22

"I have a Johnson 9,9 extra long shaft with alternator, Circa '93. The best dang Johnson I've ever owned..." - Val Basagni

The motor I sold last year with my old boat was a 1979 Johnson 9.9hp long shaft and I was saddened more about losing the motor than the boat. When I gained ownership of it with my old boat in 1995, it still had the original spark plugs(the factory sprayed painted plugs had never even been removed for inspection), fuel pump, and water pump. Despite all this the motor started on the first pull, idled and accelerated without a hiccup, and never gave me an ounce of trouble in the 6 years that it was used. This 23 year old Johnson 9.9hp outboard will probably outlast the boat that it hangs on.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Lake Erie

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

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163 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 12:23:44

I have an 85 8hp Johnson Sailmaster with an XL shaft that runs great. I had to get a sheared drive shaft replaced a couple of years ago, and I install a new water pump impeller about every two years as PM. Now that Bombardier has aquired Johnson they no longer make the 9.9 Sailmaster, but the 8 is still in production. Given the tough life of a sailboat auxiliary, I think I got my money's worth.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 12:32:45

I love the Yamaha 9.9 as I have written here many times. My first was a 1985 model. Now I have a 2000. They are more powerful than most of us need, however. If I was shopping now, I would check out the Yamaha 8 high thrust, mostly for some weight savings. I am sure it would have all the power most of us need, even for currents, tidal action, etc. Does anybody have one yet? I would like a testimonial, although I don't expect to be shopping for a LONNNGGGG time. I have had Hondas as well, and like them, but they were older, pre-high thrust. They were reliable, but in no way could the older ones push like the Yamaha. The difference was in the gearing and prop. Hear the new ones are great.

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 13:12:54

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If I was shopping now, I would check out the Yamaha 8 high thrust, mostly for some weight savings.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
You'd be disappointed... The Yamaha H/T 8 weighs more than the 9.9. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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William Matley
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 11/27/2002 : 20:31:25

I have a 4 stroke, xlong shaft, electric start, it's quiet, powerful, fuel efficient, 2000 9.9 Honda. Runs great, not so much as a single hick-up that I can remember! I don't know about other motors but mine is all I expect from a motor.

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
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Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:37:30

Here we go again! Yamaha or Honda? For me, it came down to the extra three inches of shaft on the Honda. My Honda has just completed its fifth season on Vineyard and Nantucket sounds. Changed the engind oil and gearbox lube every fall, run the motor dry and drain the water pump. Never changed the spark plugs. It covers on average 100 to 150 nautical miles per year, and it has never let me down. BUT, watch for salt build-up, and check that the cooling water is exiting that jet on the starboard side of the motor every time you start it up. The negatives? Same as any outboard: cavitation, a big problem around here, with lots of four to six foot seas, 20 knot sou'westerlies blowin' into four knot currents. Unavoidable. Next boat is a full-keel inboard... maybe!

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