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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Shore power question

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albert
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USA
262 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/09/2002 : 02:48:20

Abacus has the external shore power connector, but only three cut wires inside. Either it never had shore power, or the original setup was thrown away.

I've got the deck connector, so I'd like to add shore power without the expense of the latest circuit breaker AC panels etc.

What did the original C25 (circa 1984) come with for an AC panel and wiring?

Is the plug a 15 or 30 amp setup?

I saw a C25 last year that had used the large home AC fuses (they look like small sticks of dynamite) and fuse holder. The 30 amp fuse holder and a couple of GFT electrical outlets did the trick. Is this safe? It would be simple and inexpensive.

Also I've got a 300 watt inverter that I would like to be able to switch ON to power the electrical outlets when away from shore power.

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - albert on 12/09/2002 02:49:16

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 10:22:48

I have the setup that is illustrated in the C25 parts manual. Power comes in via a Marinco 30A stainless steel inlet mounted on the port coaming. The single breaker electrical box, which looks like it came off the shelf from Home Depot, feeds three electrical outlets(port and starboard shelves, and the V-berth bulkhead).

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc39.gif

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard near Lake Erie

Edited by - dlucier on 12/10/2002 14:54:34

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albert
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Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 12:42:27

Don,

So you've got 30 amps coming into the breaker box and 2 X 15 amps coming out; with 1 outlet with 15 amps and 2 outlets on the other 15 amp trunk?

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1893 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 12:49:01

<center>C-25 Shore Power</center>
Albert,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is the plug a 15 or 30 amp setup?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>I think it's 30A, but it should be marked. Also, I think one of the popular marine supply catalogs, maybe West Marine, has a diagram of which connector pin configurations are intended for what voltage and current loads.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I saw a C25 last year that had used the large home AC fuses ... and fuse holder. ... Is this safe?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>I would be very careful about using household electrical system components in a boat, particularly in a salty environment because of the vulnerability of cabon steel to corrosion. That said, I do use household GFI recepticals and PVC flexible conduit and junction boxes in my C-25. I used marine grade circuit breakers and wiring.

Shore power installation might not be the safest place to try to cut corners in order to save money. What I did, and what you might look into, is to buy a used shore power panel out of a larger yacht that's been upgraded or scrapped. The one I lucked into came with 30A mains, a galvanic isolator, volt & amp meters, polarity indicator, and several branch circuit breakers. I use separate breakers and GFIs for port, stbd, and charger.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... inverter that I would like to be able to switch ON ... when away from shore power.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>In the same pile of used electrical parts, I saw an AC power source selector switch with safety lockout, for selecting between shore power, genset, and inverter, while preventing accidental cross connection.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

albert
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Response Posted - 12/09/2002 : 16:41:06

I like Leon's idea of looking for a used AC panel.

Any ideas where I could find one?

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - on

albert
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262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 03:36:51

The illustration above from the C25 Manual shows a 20 amp breaker. If the connector is a 30 amp connector...? Where do the other 10 amps go? I guess they're not used.

At my marina we've got a regular (household 3 prong 120volt) GPF outlet. I'm assuming that its 15 amps. If so, how does this work with a 20 amp breaker?

BTW, how is the system grounded?

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - albert on 12/10/2002 03:48:07

Edited by - on

jwilliams
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Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 14:07:23

Albert,

I just posted a response to a shorepower query on the C25 forum. You may want to read it for what it's worth, for caution.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2340

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk #2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 14:52:20

"The illustration above from the C25 Manual shows a 20 amp breaker. If the connector is a 30 amp connector...? Where do the other 10 amps go? I guess they're not used." - Albert

The ratings(15A, 20A, 30A, etc) indicate how much current these items are designed to accommodate. A 20A breaker will trip when the load exceeds 20 amps. A 15A outlet will only handle 15 amps. Just like the proverbial "chain", an electrical circuit is only as strong as it's weakest link. In your case, you have a 15A dockside receptacle connected to a 30A power inlet which feeds a 20A breaker. The maximum combined current this system will handle before tripping a breaker is 15 amps. When the current exceeds 15A then the dockside 15A breaker should trip.

How do we determine how much electrical capacity we'll need? It depends on what devices we want to run on our 110 Volt outlets. Since the industry standard for vessels our size tends to be 30A/110V and most marinas are wired for 30A/110V, I will use this as an example. Say our boat's 30A circuit breaker is connected to the 30A/110V dockside service via a 30A power cord and 30A power inlet. This part of our electrical system will handle up to 30 amps of current before tripping or failing. The total power this system will handle is 3,300 watts. To determine this we use the power formula,

Power(Watts)=Current(Amps) X Voltage(Volts).

We know the voltage is 110V and the amperage is 30A, by plugging these into the formula we get 3,300 watts for total power(30A x 110V = 3,300W).

How do we determine how much current(amps) or power(watts) our electrical devices use?

Almost all electrical devices come with either a current or wattage rating stamped somewhere on the device. A quick look in my kitchen revealed that my toaster and coffee maker are both rated at 1,050 watts. By using the power formula we can determine the amps used by these devices. Since Watts equals Amps times Voltage, then Amps equals Watts divided by Voltage(A=W/V). So both my coffee maker and toaster use approxiamately 9.5A each(1,050W divided by 110V = 9.5A). If both of these devices were on and plugged into the same outlet they would use a combined 19A(9.5A times 2) which would exceed the 15A rating of a typical power outlet and may trip the 15A circuit breaker that is supplying that outlet.

Another example is my electric drill. It is rated at 5.4A, so if I were using it I would still have 26.4A capacity left in my 30A system. A 120W lightbulb uses about 1A. My portable radio is rated at 16W so it uses .14A(16W divided by 110V = .14A).

What does all this mean? It means with our 30A electrical service we could simultaneously brew coffee(9.5A), make toast(9.5A), drill holes(5.4A), have 5 120W lightbulbs burning(1A,1A,1A,1A,1A=5A) while listening to the radio(.14A) because when we add up our total amps(9.5, 9.5, 5.4, 5, and .14) we get 29.54A. We are still under the 30A, but we must also be careful that we don't exceed the outlet current capacity.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - dlucier on 12/10/2002 16:14:43

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albert
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262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:01:47

Is the C25 (circa 1984) shore power receptacle a 30amp or 20 amp unit. ie do I buy a 30 amp or 20 amp fitting for the dockside power cord?

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - on

albert
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Response Posted - 12/10/2002 : 22:07:21

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Albert,

I just posted a response to a shorepower query on the C25 forum. You may want to read it for what it's worth, for caution.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2340

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk #2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Wow! I wasn't aware that someone else could fry the boats around them. I posted your article in the General Forum under "Electricians--please help." I'd like to understand how this happened and what we can do to protect ourselves.

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - albert on 12/10/2002 22:12:43

Edited by - albert on 12/10/2002 22:13:37

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2002 : 00:47:37

"Do I buy a 30 amp or 20 amp fitting for the dockside power cord?" - Albert

What is the prevailing power service in your sailing area? Virtually all of the marina's I've been in have had either 30A or 50A service at the docks with the 30A service being the most prevalent. Some of the smaller less modern marinas sometimes have 15A or 20A service. Since the 30A service is somewhat the standard, I would be inclined to install a 30A power inlet and use a 30A power cord, then, if necessary, use an adapter to connect to 15A or 50A services.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard near Lake Erie

Edited by - on

albert
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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2002 : 03:41:16

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
"Do I buy a 30 amp or 20 amp fitting for the dockside power cord?" - Albert

What is the prevailing power service in your sailing area? Virtually all of the marina's I've been in have had either 30A or 50A service at the docks with the 30A service being the most prevalent. Some of the smaller less modern marinas sometimes have 15A or 20A service. Since the 30A service is somewhat the standard, I would be inclined to install a 30A power inlet and use a 30A power cord, then, if necessary, use an adapter to connect to 15A or 50A services.

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard near Lake Erie
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I'm just trying to figure out which connector is currently on my C25. What did Catalina originally install in their C25 (circa 1984)? My marina has only 15 amps, but I plan to go 30 amp as it is the most common--I just don't know if I'll need a 30 to 20amp adapter to connect to the C25 from the 30 amp power cord. Given that they originally installed a 20 amp circuit breaker, they may have also installed a 20amp shore power connector.

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - albert on 12/11/2002 03:43:05

Edited by - albert on 12/11/2002 03:44:28

Edited by - albert on 12/11/2002 03:45:15

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2002 : 19:53:31

"I'm just trying to figure out which connector is currently on my C25." - Albert

Here is a page out of the West Marine catalog that has an article on identifying shorepower connections.

<img src="http://wmarine.mobular.net/wmarine/5/4/1/images/image626-01.jpg" border=0>
<img src="http://wmarine.mobular.net/wmarine/5/4/1/images/image626-02.jpg" border=0>
<img src="http://wmarine.mobular.net/wmarine/5/4/1/images/image626-03.jpg" border=0>

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
On the hard near Lake Erie

Edited by - on

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