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Repainting bottom last Oct.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/04/2011 : 09:34:23

I decided to save some boat units and repaint the bottom myself last October. I posted some of the "before" shots then, but rasther than dig up that old thread, I'm starting a new one to add the "after" images.
You can see from the first 2 pics how bow heavy she is - I keep the swing keel down all the time which aggrevates the problem - so I painted up to the boot stripe. I sanded the boot stripe to clean it up but did not repaint it this time. You can also see some surface blisters - they were there when we bought her 4 years ago.
The paint is Interlux Ultra-Kote that I bought on sale last summer for $75/gal. I used about 1.5 of 2 gallons purchased. Took about a week for the whole project.
Oh yes, the only negative is that I was not able to drop any of the pads, available jack stands were too tall, so I did not get to paint under the pads. Also, the center pads were almost all the way down so I would not have been able to lower them anyway. I guess I'll need to raise them all a few inches next time.
The pads were still in the position used to haul a fin keel C25 last spring.
One of the "after" shots also shows where I missed slightly with the blue painters' tape, left a white sliver.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/04/2011 10:02:43

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 10:35:45

Bottom paint, a pain to do, but it looks so nice when its finished. I tend to do ours every season, but its around this time that I promise myself that I will only touch up the spots where the VC has worn through. Yeah right.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 11:23:28

You're right, it is a major pain. I'm glad I did it this time. If I had not been under a time constraint, they had already started dropping the lake to winter pool, I might have done more sanding. As it was, that took up 2 days. Fortunately, it wasn't too bad to start with. A pro painted it at purchase, I paid a diver to clean the bottom each spring, and it was hauled out for repairs and bottom pressure washed one other time.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 13:58:36

We used to paint our C25 annually with cheap paint and she was on the hard for winter and spring. Now that we have been cruising, we have used Pettit Trinidad and we easily get 2 or 3 years out of the paint job. And that's with the boat in the water year round, warm water and frequent divers scraping. Pettit Trinidad is about $250 or more a gallon, but worth every penny.

sten

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Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 14:16:12

Arright Red, now you went and done it - what is "the good stuff" I though VC-17m was pretty up there. Its purpose is to slough off so I though the wear points (leading edges mostly) were just teh paint doing its job. We are in freshwater and have never had to do more than spray down the hull with a garden hose after haul-out.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 15:19:54

Sten, you must be buying your Trinidad at Saks Fifth Avenue.

Chris, Sten's needs (high-fouling salt water) are totally different from yours (cold fresh water). However, neither Trinidad nor VC-17 is intended to for multiple seasons if the boat is pulled out of the water. Neither is designed to "slough off"--they're both "hard" paints. Both have a very short self-life in the air, in terms of antifouling effectiveness. His works for multiple seasons because he keeps the boat in the water. If he stored it on the hard over the winter, he'd have to remove the Trinidad (or deal with the build-up) and re-paint.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/04/2011 15:20:49

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 15:27:08

I got the paint from Defender. If you remember, someone here posted that they had a promotional sale last summer, offering Ultra-Kote for $75 per gallon, normally $200. Since I had previously used Ultra when I bought the boat, I bought 2 gallons and a quart of thinner. The deal worked out very nicely.

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TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 21:30:19

I'm gearing up to do bottom paint for the first time this spring. One of the many things the previous owner did wrong was to use hard epoxy (WM BottomShield) for a boat that gets hauled every winter. The paint was stale when I launched for the survey last March, and I did not want to haulout to repaint during the season. There was some slime buildup and no barnacles when I hauled last October, but it was easily removed with a pressure washer and a lot of patience.

This time I will sand a bit to smooth the surface (fortunately there is not a lot of buildup) and then use an ablative. For my area (moderately warm fresh water) I was debating between Interlux Micron Extra and Pettit Ultima SR40, but after looking at the Practical Sailor reviews from Oct 2010 I am going to go with WM PCA Gold (made for WM by Pettit). I would not mind paying more for better paint, but it looks like this one outperforms the others at 12 months.

Do any of you have experience with the PCA Gold?

However, I realize that my water is different from what they tested. My main concern is slime, but the PCA Gold has dual slime additives.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2011 : 21:47:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 Do any of you have experience with the PCA Gold?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I used it in salt water on my C-25 and it did very well--especially for the money.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2011 : 05:56:16

I use one coat of PCA Gold every spring on my boat on the Chesapeake, and it works very well. One year, I applied two coats, and then the following spring, re-launched without painting, after only scrubbing the bottom to re-energize the paint, and it prtoected the bottom well. If you paint each spring and buy the paint on sale, it's a very good value.

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OLarryR
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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2011 : 07:04:51

My boat is in the water all year and I am in the upper Potomac River (freshwater). We mostly have to deal with slime and some kind of other growth but no barnacles to deal with. I will be painting the bottom again probably Fall 2011. Last time it was painted was in Oct 2006 and it was with Micron XT (Copolymer). The bottom paint has lasted well thru the seasons with just one annual pressure wash a year. This past fall when I had it pressure washed, it had significantly more growth and so I will probably pressure wash it again some time early summer this year and see how it looks. The thing is that the pressure washes cost only $75 for hauling it out, pressure washing and lowering it back in. Bottom painting is a much bigger deal in that the boat has to be hauled into a mtn yard and they charge $200/week regardless of who does the work. I had them do it last time and it came out to about $1000. So, I probably will get it painted in the Fall again...I mean 5 years seems like I have gotten my money's worth out of the last paint job...bt since pressure washing only costs $75...I could get away with doing it twice a year for at least another year. If I do get it bottom painted in the fall, I may also replace the standing rigging.

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/05/2011 07:08:06

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2011 : 10:42:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 ...Last time it was painted was in Oct 2006 and it was with Micron XT (Copolymer). The bottom paint has lasted well thru the seasons with just one annual pressure wash a year. This past fall when I had it pressure washed, it had significantly more growth...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Keep in mind that pressure washing copolymer (ablative) paint takes some of the paint off. You might be aware of the "signal coat" strategy, where you put a coat of one color on, and then overcoat it with a contrasting color--perhaps two coats. Then every time you haul and wash or scrub, you watch for any appearance of the first color, which indicates it's time to add a coat of the other. From experience, I recommend a color other than black for the signal coat--it's hard to recognize.

BTW, most ablatives can be put on top of most other abblatives... I don't recommend them on top of hard paints (from experience). Check the maker's site for a compatibility chart. It's frustrating when the new paint makes the old paint let go all over the roller!

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2011 : 14:58:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 However, neither Trinidad nor VC-17 is intended to for multiple seasons if the boat is pulled out of the water. Neither is designed to "slough off"--they're both "hard" paints. Both have a very short self-life in the air, in terms of antifouling effectiveness.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Although I recoat my VC-17m every season, I know more than a few sailors who use VC-17 and recoat every other year without issues. Trinidad paint might have a short shelf-life as it has a limited time to launch after painting, but with VC-17m there is no maximum time to launch afer painting so you could wait a year or two if you wanted. VC-17m might not be classified as an ablative/sloughing paint, but it indeed wears away especially on leading edges.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2011 : 15:26:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Although I recoat my VC-17m every season, I know more than a few sailors who use VC-17 and recoat every other year without issues...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That wouldn't surprise me for fresh water. BTW, when I said "shelf life in the air", I meant on the boat, or "time to launch," which is generally quite limited with hard paints--although I'm not very familiar with VC... I don't know anyone around here who's used it.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2011 : 17:20:23

The ablatives/copolymers are considered soft paints and will come off on your finger from touching/gently rubbing it. My experience with the pressure washing is that the paint is coming off to some degree each season but there is plenty of paint still on the bottom even after 4 annual pressure washes. This year, will be first summer I probably will get two pressure washes - early summer and again in the fall probably when I have the boat put on stands to have it repainted.

I have not gone the different paint color repainting that I have heard recommended by a number of sources. First of all, I only went thru one repainting and that was when I bought the boat the first season. The color put on was the same color. Basically, going by the extent of slime/condition of the bottom each year when it gets it's annual pressure washing, that has been a pretty good annual guide to how well the paint is holding up to preventing slime build-up. To tell you the truth, I was very skeptical initially, that the paint could lastso many seasons, but it has ! this is such a difference compared to the years when i was on Long island and had my boat on stands each winter and repainted it each Spring.

I may go with a different paint color this next fall. Since the Micron XT held up so well, I may go with it again...but a quick check with WM, I do not think they sell it anymore...so maybe i will go with Micron extra or extra VOC or one of the other ablative/copolymers. I'll have to see what color choices are commonly available. Maybe red over blue ?

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/05/2011 17:25:37

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2011 : 06:39:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Sten, you must be buying your Trinidad at Saks Fifth Avenue.

Chris, Sten's needs (high-fouling salt water) are totally different from yours (cold fresh water). However, neither Trinidad nor VC-17 is intended to for multiple seasons if the boat is pulled out of the water. Neither is designed to "slough off"--they're both "hard" paints. Both have a very short self-life in the air, in terms of antifouling effectiveness. His works for multiple seasons because he keeps the boat in the water. If he stored it on the hard over the winter, he'd have to remove the Trinidad (or deal with the build-up) and re-paint.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmm.... well that is what it costs and um... Hinckley Yacht Services in Savannah painted SV Lysistrata with three coats two years ago for $1500 - 40 feet - we were already hauled $ and the paint was leftover, she wound up darker on her starboard side, the fish can tell, etc....

Nonetheless, the whole oxidization thing is there, but doesn't really affect good paint. Technically, you shouldn't have to remove paint. It's supposed to wear off naturally. We do change the color such that we know when we hit the old coat, but c'mon, unless you are racing seriously, fouling paint is just there to prevent growth. When we painted our C25, we did it for ourselves - the boat, eh, not so much. There was enough paint on her to skip a season or two sans penalty.

Here in St. Pete, we are amazed at the "floaters" - (sorry, they don't sail much if ever and they just look at their boats most of the time) - who have MONTHLY divers! I go six months and then start to think about it mostly for the zincs!

If your paint can doesn't weigh more than your mother-in-law, you bought the wrong stuff.

sten

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2011 : 09:48:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Hmmm.... well that is what it costs and um... Hinckley Yacht Services in Savannah painted SV Lysistrata...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, Hinckley is the Saks (or Nieman's) of boatyards... Even the Evil Empire charges less for Trinidad SR. (Well, before CT sales tax that is. Never mind.

)

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redviking
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USA
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Response Posted - 02/07/2011 : 06:43:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Hmmm.... well that is what it costs and um... Hinckley Yacht Services in Savannah painted SV Lysistrata...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, Hinckley is the Saks (or Nieman's) of boatyards... Even the Evil Empire charges less for Trinidad SR. (Well, before CT sales tax that is. Never mind.

)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hinckley does nice work and is actually quite reasonable overall... When they quoted us for the paint job - we had to be hauled 'cuz we spun a cutlass bearing - we baulked. Then we thought about it. At least 4 gallons and a good two coats? They barely made money.

The whole paint discussion can be won by using a scale. The heavier the paint, the more copper. Not a surprise.... Buy the best paint you can afford and never look back. Stick with that brand etc...

sten

Edited by - redviking on 02/07/2011 06:46:53

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