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Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Steaming light

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WindDancer
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:46:55

I needs some help with trouble shooting my mast lighting. I currently have the mast off the boat and just replaced the bulbs with LEDs. However, when I apply power to the lights the steaming light will not light. The deck light lights with power to the steaming light pin. The deck light lights when power is also applied to the deck light pin. When looking at the forespar combo light wiring it appears that the deck light is in series with the steaming light????? Does the deck light need to be switched to ground for the steaming light to come on? When power is applied directly to the steaming light (at the bulb contacts) it works. Has anyone had this problem before?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bruce
250 WB 861

Bruce and Suzette
Five O' Clock Somewhere
2006 C250WB #861
Clearlake Ca

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 10:06:43

I am in exactly the same place as your are. . . maybe a bit behind in the process. Prior to pulling the boat last fall only the steaming light worked.

To be on the safe side just purchased all new bulbs for each of the three lights and replaced the anchor light (lens would no longer attach to its housing). Last summer the deck plug was replaced along with its mast connection. The terminals of both plugs were heavily corroded.

Next step is to install the new light, put the bulbs in their sockets and hope for the best. I'll post the results here once that's completed.

I have no clue how the deck and steaming light are wired. To answer your question you might remove this housing from the mast to check that out. It's fairly easy.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 10:08:41

If the bulbs are in series I would expect the deck light is sapping too much voltage to allow the steaming light to light. If they are set up to work off one switch they should be in parralel, not series.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 10:34:57

...and they should not be running off one switch. The anchor, deck, and steaming lights can have a common ground wire, but should have separate positive wires and switches. Do you not have four wires going up the mast?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/08/2011 12:33:18

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 11:25:34

You should have 4 wires going up the mast: green - ground, white - Steaming, orange - anchor, yellow - deck/spreader. As indicated above, the steaming, anchor and deck/spreader positive wires should each go to individual switches.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 11:57:06

Bruce,
The polarity on LED's matters. Before going too far into your deconstruction, I'd suggest you measure the voltage at the light socket (without bulb in place) to confirm it is powered and, if so, flip the bulb end for end and try it again. If not, then start backtracking as suggested above. Another potential issue, is simply corrosion in the contacts. Clean them the best you can.

Just re-read your post....No - the deck light should not light when the steaming light is powered.

Edited by - glivs on 02/08/2011 12:00:09

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 15:41:44

From my experience the color of the wires on the boat side of the deck plug have nothing to do with the color of wires going into the base of the mast or the wires at the lights up the mast. Use a meter to trace the wires.

Here's the way mine is wired;

Deck side Black is mast side Green, battery negative
Deck side White is mast side Black, deck light positive
Deck side Yellow is mast side White, steaming light positive
Deck side Red is mast side Red, anchor light positive

The wire color at the lights does not match the color of the wires at the base of the mast on my 250.

Took me 2 days to decode the wires. good luck

Edited by - on

WindDancer
1st Mate

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USA
34 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 19:07:28

Thank you for all of your input.

I found the problem. Being the mast is off the boat (Down in SF Bay area getting the botom done) and I was testing the system with power from an independent battery this automatically eliminated any issues with the deck connector and switches. The problem turned out to be the mast side connector was corroded, specifically, at the terminal screws under the rubber boot. Once I removed the pin connector and had only bare wires everything worked great. The corrosion was causing the green grounding wire to be hot and the black wire to act as a ground; thus, feeding the power from the wrong direction. So I'm now going to order a new connector from Catalina Direct.

Thanks again,
Bruce
Winddancer
250 wb
#861
Clearlake Ca

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2011 : 20:44:47

I needs some help with trouble shooting my mast lighting.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bruce
250 WB 861
[/quote]

I think a good .22 with a scope should take care of shooting the lighting without damaging the rest of the mast!

seriously, i have to go thru the same mess before i can have all of my lights working properly and it sounds like nothing is very standard about any of it.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2011 : 16:01:06

Richard, best advice I can give based on my experience is drop the mast, get a meter and start checking the wiring, wire colors are not standard between the deck, mast and lights.

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2011 : 21:40:49

I have a tricolor and anchor light combo at the masthead, but switches only for anchor, steaming(bow), and deck. I thought the switch for the anchor light might be double pole double throw with wiring magic to make it work both, but not so. When i take the mast down before moving to the lake, i will try to sort this out, but any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

Edited by - on

shemp
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2011 : 12:30:25

I bought my 03' 250wb used a couple of years ago. I found the lighting was all messed up. I had to change several pins to get the correct switches to power their corresponding switches.

Edited by - on

jbdurbin
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2011 : 21:47:25

Winddancer... you bring up a question. You have a green ground and a black negative? Are you talking about an independent ground, not at the battery negative? If so this then would be a five wire set up? 3 positives, a negative, and then a ground. I may just be confused...

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2011 : 04:57:05

Richard, I'm thinking you cannot use the magic of a polarity reversing switch in combination with two LED lights or diodes with regular bulbs when a common ground is shared with other fixtures on the mast such as the steaming light and deck light.

What would be possible however is to do magic on both the top mounted tri color and anchor light by using a polarity reversing switch on them and then another polarity reversing switch on the deck/steaming light (assuming they are also diode equipped).

This would require disconnecting the steaming and deck lights from the ground wire within those fixtures and dedicating it only as one of the legs to the upper lights.

To clarify, there are four wires in the mast... the ground wire is common to all three normal fixtures. You would be disconnecting it from the lower two and dedicating it as one of the pair required of the top two lights. The lower two lights would then use the steaming wire and the deck wire as their pair.

It would save having to run another wire in the mast, but require either led bulbs or diodes on all mast lighting in conjunction with two, three position polarity reversing switches.

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 00:27:53

Arlyn, I have the mast wiring kit from CD and LED replacement bulbs from Mastlight for all but the deck light. Have not determined if there is an LED version of the halogen type bulb for the deck light, but I'll bet you are right about not mixing types on a circuit. Electricity is pretty much voodoo to me anyway!!

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 21:37:04

Richard, what you are proposing can be done. I didn't mean to say what you are proposing couldn't be done... only that the common ground would go away. You can mix a led light and a standard using two wires and switch between the two lights using a polarity reversing switch with the requirement that a diode is used in conjunction with the non led bulb.

The diode has to of course be rated to handle the current draw of the light.

It comes down to how bad you wish to avoid pulling another wire into the mast.

You can have four lights on the mast using four wires... I was just saying to do so, there would be no more common ground.

Keep in mind that there would be no anchor and tricolor at the same time or steaming and deck at the same time.

It would require two double pole double throw center off switches and a diode (for the halogen deck light) and four healthy wires to and in the mast.

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2011 : 22:37:04

Thanks Arlyn, that sounds encouraging as I can't think of any reason to need anchor/tricolor or deck/steaming at the same time. I assume an LED deck light would eliminate the diode?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2011 : 06:27:16

Here is a schematic of how to wire it.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2011 : 07:55:50

My deck light burned out last summer, and while I do very little night sailing/motoring, I really missed having it. (I'm replacing it this winter while the mast is down.) I consider it a safety feature. I would be very reluctant to lose its availability while motoring at night, especially while docking (under motor power). But according to Arlyn's schematic (and his written comments), Richard would have to choose between steaming light or deck light.

So Arlyn's proposal is very creative as a way to feed four lights with four wires, but I think it's a lot of trouble and compromise just to avoid running a fifth wire, especially since Richard is going to be taking his mast down anyway.

Also, for any motor with a decent alternator, what is the point of having an LED steaming light?

Edited by - TakeFive on 02/25/2011 08:14:11

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2011 : 08:42:50

Rick's point is a good one. One other issue is to remember that if doing this, both poles of all the lights must be isolated from the mast. It has been a long time and I don't recall if the fixtures have the ground pole isolated or grounded to the mast.

One might be tempted to think that one of the fixture grounds wouldn't make any difference... but remember that ultimately the mast mounted antenna probably grounds the mast to the electrical ground of the boat so that means that none of the current grounds can be grounded to the mounting.

Edit note: Does a tri-color eliminate the use of a steaming light on a 25' boat? I can't recall?

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 02/25/2011 08:50:17

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2011 : 12:15:43

Re: tri-color light
On boats under 12 meters in length, an all around white light may be used instead of the masthead steaming light and stern light while steaming. The red and green side lights must still be employed. So, the answer to your question is yes. However, under sail, you don't want the steaming light on, so you might need a separately switched stern light as well.
Also, with the tri-color fixture set-up, in order to use the all round white as an anchor light, it must be switched separately from the red/green light.

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/01/2011 12:25:12

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