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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

rigging jib sheets with inboard track?

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/01/2002 : 11:53:21

Hi there,

I am in the final stages of negotiations for the purchase of an 89 wing keel 25 tall rig.

The 89 has the genoa track inboard of the lifeline stanchions. This is different from the 22, and also earlier 25's.

Questions:

when running your jib sheets, do you run them over or under the lifeline?
If you run them over, the lifeline holds the sheet up and it is not a direct path the the clew.
If you run them under, does it interfere with tacking, in that the windward sheet now has to go over the line and back over your boat to the leward side? How about when you adjust the position of your jib sheet leads and you run up to a stanchion.

What do you do?

Frank Gloss
soon to be a 25 owner
fgloss@knology.net

Frank

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2002 : 08:19:56

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hi there,

I am in the final stages of negotiations for the purchase of an 89 wing keel 25 tall rig.

The 89 has the genoa track inboard of the lifeline stanchions. This is different from the 22, and also earlier 25's.

Questions:

when running your jib sheets, do you run them over or under the lifeline?
If you run them over, the lifeline holds the sheet up and it is not a direct path the the clew.
If you run them under, does it interfere with tacking, in that the windward sheet now has to go over the line and back over your boat to the leward side? How about when you adjust the position of your jib sheet leads and you run up to a stanchion.

What do you do?

Frank
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Frank,
When you rig the sheets on the regular rail jib track, you run them over the lifeline. The slot at the bow where the lifeline ends and the pulpit begins was made to allow for the sail to drop right in when closed hauled. When tacking, there will be plenty of wind to bring the sail over the lifeline. It would really have to be dead air for the sail not to tack over.

Running them under would foul the sail in the lifeline.

If you use the inside tracks that this boat has (Most likely done for racing purposes) you would run the sheets inside the lifeline and outside the shrouds.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2002 : 14:07:17

Frank,

This question raises an interesting issue as to whether an inboard genoa track is workable on a C-25. When sailing close hauled on my boat, with its standard genoa track, I trim the 110% jib in until it almost (but not quite) touches the spreader. If I had an inboard genoa track, I still couldn't sheet the 110% jib in any closer than the spreader. The object of the inboard genoa track is to enable you to flatten the jib, and haul it in closer inboard. But, because the spreader and upper shroud is in the way, you can't adjust the sail in closer than the spreader. The only part of the sail that you can adjust inboard is the clew of the sail. If you adjust the 110% jib so that it doesn't touch the spreader, and simply pull the clew of the sail closer inboard, then you have induced more curve in the sail, which is exactly what you don't want to do when you are trying to sail closer to windward.

The inboard genoa track might be functional with a 90% headsail, because the spreader would not interfere with sheeting a 90% headsail close inboard. If you used a 90% headsail, you would, I think, run the sheets inside the shrouds, because, if you ran them outside the shrouds, the shrouds would prevent you from sheeting the jib flat, back toward the inboard genoa track.

If you try to use the inboard genoa tracks with a 110% headsail, the sheets have to be run over the lifelines, regardless of whether you use the standard genoa track or the inboard genoa track. If you run the sheet under the lifeline, then you will only be able to sheet the jib in as close as the lifeline stanchions, which will defeat the purpose of the inboard genoa track. The lifeline stanchion will prevent the jib from being sheeted in close to the inboard genoa track.

If you run the sheets over the lifeline, the lifeline will only hold the sheet up when you are sailing off the wind. When you are beating to windward, and the sail is trimmed close inboard, there will be a direct path from the genoa block to the clew of the jib. What this means is that, even if you are using a 90% jib, the inboard genoa track doesn't work well when sailing off the wind. It is only good for beating to windward.

I have never actually experimented with an inboard genoa track on a C-25, so I am mentally visualizing the arrangement in order to answer your questions. I might be overlooking some factor that invalidates everything I said, and am looking forward to hearing the thoughts of the others.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

luckystar
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2002 : 15:09:46

I've seen in quite a few pics that they did, indeed, move the jib tracks from the gunnels to a position near the aft salon portlight. And it's only about two or three feet long. I don't know why they made that design change. I like the long toe rail t-tracks, hopefully when I get to fly a spinnaker, they will really come in handy! <img src="http://www.proxycreative.com/images/8925.jpg" border=0>
 
Duane, I' ve been running my jib sheet from the clew of the genoa (155) to right in front of the forward "gate" stancion, under the life line into my lead car. Is this what you're talking about? or do you bring the bitter end over the life line, then into the lead? See pic 
<img src="http://www.proxycreative.com/images/luckystar_0602.jpg" border=0>
Also, I've been wondering what is the best position for the lead cars. I've always sailed with them roughly between the winches and that first stancion near the cabin top and occasionally moving further forward on a run or light, high air. (someone on the list had a great way to remember when to move: bottom breaks back; when the bottom telltale breaks move the car back)

I'm about to purchase some new genoa lead cars, any one have some used ones to sell? or suggestions as what to get? Catalina Direct has some Garhauers for $35ea.

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR

Edited by - luckystar on 12/02/2002 15:13:24

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2002 : 15:16:59

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The inboard genoa track might be functional with a 90% headsail, because the spreader would not interfere with sheeting a 90% headsail close inboard. If you used a 90% headsail, you would, I think, run the sheets inside the shrouds, because, if you ran them outside the shrouds, the shrouds would prevent you from sheeting the jib flat, back toward the inboard genoa track. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Steve,

I think you are absolutely correct with your statment above. Usually, on the bigger racing boats with the number 3 or 4 headsail you begin to move the to the inner set of tracks

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Duanne,[sic] I' ve been running my jib sheet from the clew of the genoa (155) to right in front of the forward "gate" stancion, under the life line into my lead car. Is this what you're talking about? or do you bring the bitter end over the life line, then into the lead? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Patrick,

Yes I meant bring the bitter end over the life line into the lead to the winch. Your configuration stands to put a tremendous strain on your lifeline at off the wind angles.

DW

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2002 : 21:37:40

Patrick - on "This Side Up" I run a full cut 155% genoa. In drifter conditions the genoa car is level with the stanchion by the aft end of the cabin top. As the wind kicks up we move it back - but never further back than 4 holes aft of the stanchion.
The best way to check optimum car position (for each wind condition) is to use the breaking of the tell tales when you very slowly come up past close-hauled.
Hope this helps.
Derek

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2002 : 07:07:06

As you move the car back and forth you are adjusting the draft of the Jenny (or whatever head sail you are using. Moving the car back (aft) moves the draft forward and flattens the sail. And, if the sail is on a roller furler, you want to adjust the car as you open up additional sail (move the car aft back) or roll up some of the sail (move the car forward). As Derek menioned the key to positioning the car are the tell tails placed on the luff of the sail. Now if I could only remember which way to adjust when the leward one breaks first?

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2002 : 11:31:31

Don - just move the sail towards the breaking telltale...(or change course!)<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2002 : 15:30:18

Derek,

"Just move the sail toward the breaking telltail." Sounds simple enough. Now will I remember that when I'm sailing. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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