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25 sailboat capsizes off San Diego

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Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/28/2011 : 05:54:25

Does anybody know what kind of boat this was? Sounds like they had way too many people on board. (10, 2 died)

Captain Max
"Wyvern"
84 Cat 25 FK
Bayview Marina
Dallas Tx Area

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 06:48:22

My local paper said it was a possible rental boat. I dont see a keel either which makes me wonder about maintaince, especially if it is a rental boat. It was a 35ft sailboat with 10 on board, 2 older men died. Accident occured around 5pm. More to come I am sure.
There is also a post in the General Section.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 06:51:50

Hey Steve, I believe it was a 25 foot. I'm curious about the make of the boat, I can't imagine having 10 people on my Catalina 25!

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 07:28:54

Looking at the video, and comparing the rescue boat sizes to the capsized boat, it looks more like a 25 footer than a 35 footer, but it hard to say.

I did a framegrab of the video and zoomed in a bit. Image is still rather poor, but it looks like two stub keels or angled twin daggerboards (retracted) come out from the hull, and no swing keel trunk or faired protrusion for a normal fin keel. That would jive with what looks like a really small wetted area based on the antifouling paint that shows.

Chuck

Edited by - on

Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 07:36:56

I've read multiple news stories, they all mention a 25 footer. Interesting comment about the video Chuck.

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 08:10:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Captain Max
 Interesting comment about the video Chuck.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

After I posted the other note, I looked at the framegrab again, and noticed I could not see a rudder, and no propeller (either inboard or outboard) That would seem to say the boat was made to be able to trailer and probably to race give the long narrow shape(low wetted area, shallow stub keels or daggerboards, and probably a retractable rudder? (or the rudder came off the gudgeons when it inverted?) Most likely an outboard motor that was retracted is the reason no prop shows. Also, I think I can make out a bow pulpit under the water.

Anyone know of any boats that fit a description like that?

10 people were waaay too many on a boat that length and type IMHO....

Chuck

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 10:17:07

Too many people for sure. Video was fuzzy, couldn't see the keel or tell what make boat.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 11:14:49

I think it's been determined it is a Mac26.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 11:23:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 I think it's been determined it is a Mac26.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Empty ballast tank?

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 12:44:11

Ya most news reports say it was a 25'. I did an internet search for sailboat rentals in that area and most show Catalina 25, C250 and Merit 25. One site says the a Catalina 25 can accommodate 8! I am anxious to hear more.
Steve A

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Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 12:49:13

Now that is an interesting statement, are you guys comfortable with 8 on your boat? I realize there are a lot of factors here. Size of people, weather conditions. I would say (in my limited experience) that a total of 4 adults in fairly heavy weather, not sure I'd want more than 6 in any conditions though.

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Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 12:55:54

And how do you get pictures under your signature?

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 14:04:52

Use image tags....check the FAQ under formatting and you'll see an example. Upload your pic to a hosting site then enclose the URL in the img tags.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 14:38:15

Edited by - PCP777 on 03/28/2011 14:46:23

Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 14:44:25

Something like that, that's the old name havent changed yet. I am about 2/3's down the dock. The Alberg that is being refinished by Ron and Kate (think got names right) is opposite me.

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Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 14:45:06

The Life ring has Wyvern on it.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 14:47:37

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Captain Max
1st Mate

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USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 14:57:19

Well thank you sir. I believe I've seen yours, a fine cat 25 indeed. I didn't get out there this weekend, but I usually make either sat or sun whether I'm sailing or not.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 15:19:17

Mine is pretty distinctive, 8 winches and a cabin house traveler.

BTW, the Wednesday Night races start April 6th.....

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 15:21:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Captain Max
 Now that is an interesting statement, are you guys comfortable with 8 on your boat? I realize there are a lot of factors here. Size of people, weather conditions. I would say (in my limited experience) that a total of 4 adults in fairly heavy weather, not sure I'd want more than 6 in any conditions though.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I dont have more than 4 on mine if sailing. However, I have had 6 or 7 while motoring in the harbor on a weekend afternoon.
Steve A

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RiverJames
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 20:28:54

Verified on local news as Mac 26 with retractable keel. Maybe keel was up? 2 died without PFDs. Too many people onboard, weight distribution maybe at fault.

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Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 20:42:29

All details at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/27/two-dead-boating-accident/

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RiverJames
 Verified on local news as Mac 26 with retractable keel. Maybe keel was up? 2 died without PFDs. Too many people onboard, weight distribution maybe at fault.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

michaelj
Navigator

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132 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2011 : 03:15:48

At the risk of belaboring the obvious, PFD's don't do you any good if you're not wearing one, particularly if the water is cold and you are wearing a lot of clothing which, when wet, will drag you down like an anchor.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2011 : 07:48:35

I recall a C-25 overturning and sinking on Lake Dillon in Colorado some years ago. It was at night, and I think there might have been 14 people on board. No doubt a number of them were on the cabintop and maybe the foredeck, raising the COG substantially. The C-25 is more robustly ballasted than the C-250 or Mac 26, and all of them will "float" with too many people aboard, but 14 was too many for the C-25.

The centerboard on a Mac (1) is not substantially weighted, so it doesn't matter much what position it was in, and (2) will fall back into the trunk when the boat turtles. The state of the CB pennant should indicate whether it was down before the roll, but it doesn't matter much.

The fact that the boat remained floating after it rolled (which would have filled the cabin with water) suggests empty ballast tanks that became floatation tanks. The skipper may have thought that if he sailed under jib alone (didn't somebody say that was observed?) that he wouldn't need the ballast and he'd have more load-carrying capacity. Actually, he would have substantially less capacity.

Some Macs have "positive floatation"... but that term specifies that the floatation is positioned high enough to turn the boat upright and hold it there when filled with water--not hold it upside-down.

Well-meaning as he apparently was, advertising that he can take groups of eight people (he being the ninth, with a need for qualified crew that would be the tenth) out to sail on that boat shows extremely poor judgement--tanks full or empty. Actually I would have to call it negligence.

Very sad.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/29/2011 07:59:05

calden
Navigator

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USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2011 : 08:02:40

Picture of the boat right before the capsize... Wow...

edit to correct:

I have since learned that this is a picture of the boat the previous day.

Edited by - calden on 03/29/2011 17:24:34

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2011 : 10:58:41

Well, that eliminates the sails as an issue. They were apparently under power only, but it looks like poor weight distribution, and the pop top was up!

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/29/2011 11:00:19

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