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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Sea Gull Outboard Motor

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T8BECKHAM
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/07/2011 : 19:38:44

I just bought a C-25. I am trying to get pictures loaded up but in the meantime I have a couple of questions about this outboard. Its the model 170. It has a push button. Is that an electric start? There is a 5-pin plug on one side. Is that the cable I am missing? Anyone know if this unit will charge my 12 volt system. I have checked out the Sea Gull website but I thought I would start here.

thanks-

Tate Beckham
1980 C-25
Blue Moon
B`ham, AL

Tate Beckham

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2011 : 20:38:45

Electric start and charging on a British Seagull???

Mind-boggling! Beware, if they're from Lucas (the Prince of Darkness) Electronics, well.....

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/07/2011 20:44:38

T8BECKHAM
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2011 : 22:37:13

not much of a response on this topic. should I not ask about outboards on this site? this is my first time dealing with a motor. all my other sail boats have a paddle.
T8

Edited by - on

Rick6027
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2011 : 23:05:39

Tate,
Don't be too discouraged by the lack of replies. It might be that none of the members has info on that motor. It is a British made motor, and is one of the newer, less common models. The older "no frills" models are fairly common, as they were practically bullet proof due to their simplicity. There is a guy in San Francisco who bought a lot of the parts when the factory went out of business. He is a nice, helpful guy, but gets top dollar for his parts. There is a man named John in the U.K. that is in the business of keeping the British Seagulls in operation. He has a lot of used parts. His website is: www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/
Maybe he can help. Good luck.

Rick

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 08:03:40

Folks won't normally pop into a thread with an "I don't know, sorry"...they'll just not comment on it. This forum is very well behaved compared to other forums out there, where your post could generate a load of trolls making rude or bad comments since they have nothing better to add.

Rick's spot on with your motor...just not a motor here that many have, so no response to the thread...not that there's anything wrong with the Seagulls, just that most have Mercury, Evinrude, Johnson, Tohatsu, Yamaha, Honda, Nissan.....

I wouldn't mind having one....heck, I'll take anything at this point.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 08:29:39

T8 -- Any question about boats and motors is fair game here. Obviously, there will be things for which there is little information and I think you found one.

I found [url="http://www.sheridanmarine.com/product/british-seagull-outboard-model-170-125-spares-book"]this[/url] but didn't find an American Source.

[url="http://www.britishseagullparts.com/"]This[/url] one might also help.

EDIT: Spoke too soon, [url="http://www.britishseagulls.com/"]here's one[/url] in San Francisco.

Edited by - John Russell on 04/09/2011 08:43:19

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 10:50:16

I have a friend with several functioning Sea Gulls in his garage collection; I knew I would be seeing him this evening, so I thought I would post after that if his has any helpful information.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 11:10:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by T8BECKHAM
 I just bought a C-25. I am trying to get pictures loaded up but in the meantime I have a couple of questions about this outboard. Its the model 170. It has a push button. Is that an electric start? There is a 5-pin plug on one side. Is that the cable I am missing? Anyone know if this unit will charge my 12 volt system. I have checked out the Sea Gull website but I thought I would start here.

thanks-

Tate Beckham
1980 C-25
Blue Moon
B`ham, AL
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Remove any engine cowling. If the engine is electric start, it will have an electric starter motor attached to the flywheel via a gear. If it is electric start, it's likely to have an alternator to recharge the battery. An alternator on such a motor won't charge the battery quickly, but it will restore whatever you use to start the motor, if you run it very much at all. I haven't owned a Seagull, but had a small Merc with electric start, and the electric is a nice feature, although an expensive option.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 11:52:52

Put it on eBay and buy a motor that you will not have to worry about. New ones are 2-2.5k or buy an older 2 stroke OMC, they can run forever, 2-6 hundred. I would say the motor says a lot about your PO; quirky and odd. What other quirky and odd things did he do to the boat? I hope you spot them all, some may need changing. I wonder what he did with the old OMC that was probably on the boat when he bought it. The motor on a C-25 can be a source of constant aggravation if you do not own the correct motor. It really need to be a 9+ horse, electric start with charging and a 25
" (extra long) shaft. People make other motors work and get by with them, this post will bring them out to pitch their smaller outputs and ability to get along without the options; but the "no issue" set up is what I describe above. You can screw around for years and loose a hell of a lot of sailing time or you can put the right motor on the boat and sail a lot.

good luck

Edited by - pastmember on 04/09/2011 11:55:45

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 12:51:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Put it on eBay and buy a motor that you will not have to worry about...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Indeed, you probably have a collector's item on your hands, which is great for collectors but of dubious value to sailors (except the ones who want to turn heads). There are times when a sailor needs an engine that will start RIGHT NOW--no questions asked. A 4-stroke with electric start (which also means an alternator) is a wonderful addition--quiet, smokeless, and starts like your car (if you have a nice car). Lake sailors can do fine with 6 hp, and some 8 hp engines are identical to the 9.9 from the same maker except for the price tag (Honda for example). Tohatsu makes a 6 with a 25" (XL) shaft but no electric start. Their 9.8 has the starter. Both are "best buys" and avialable from Online Outboards for a discount to association members. Just about everyone seems to like them... I bought a Honda 8 before the Tohatsus were available--great engine with a stronger alternator, but heavier and more expensive.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 13:04:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 It really need to be a 9+ horse, electric start with charging and a 25 " (extra long) shaft. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Electric start a necessity? Why so?

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 13:30:55

The transom is high making the pull angle acute to a motor locked in the down position of the motor mount. C-25s are often owned by older people and or newbees to sailing, when a motor does not start on the first pull or two it can become very problematic for many owners. If you ever want your first mate to take the boat out she will want an electric start. Manual start motors are very salty but decidedly lacking in luxury. I now have a 5 hp Tohatsu pull start but my transom is far friendlier.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 13:38:19

Not necessary, but pull starting is a little awkward and the alternator is nice. I agree with Frank's "no issues", but I also agree that other motors work. I have never approached full throttle with my 9.9 since the stern squats at less than 3/4 throttle and hull speed.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 14:13:13

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 14:29:15

My wife has learned (the hard way) to stand clear when I go to pull the non-electric starter.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 20:39:37

As with anything, the more you spend....electric start is super nice but adds $$$...remote controls are even better but again, more $$$.....

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 20:57:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 ...remote controls are even better but again, more $$$.....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'd argue that... Hondas and Yamahas (at least) make the controls quite accessible, with long tiller handles and shifters on the front of the powerhead or on the tiller handle. I would not trade that for a remote shift/throttle in the rather tight cockpit. Friends with inboard auxiliaries used to envy my out-of-the-way controls, and I would invariably kick theirs.

But electric start is really nice--my first C-25 outboard didn't have it, and the second did.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 21:16:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I'd argue that... Hondas and Yamahas (at least) make the controls quite accessible,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mercury's have integrated throttle shifters. Twist throttle one way for forward, twist throttle the other way for reverse. Doesn't get any easier than that.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2011 : 22:35:34

I have a SeaGull 40 plus engine. It is indestructible and starts on the first or second pull. I got it when I bought my 16 ft Sunbird daysailor. It's got a long shaft and that makes it easy on a small boat. I've had it since the early-90s. Still works fine.

There is a yahoo group that you can send questions to. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/britishseagull/

There may be 50 members who participate in discussions from time to time. You have to apply for membership, but the moderator approves you quickly. The manuals are all available on a CD (I've got a set in my archive).

The engines are admittedly quirky, but very reliable. They take Whitworth-sized tools - these are not english (1/2", 9/16", 5/8") nor are they metric (10mm, 13mm, 16mm). Triumph motorcycles also used Whitworth tools.

These 2-3 HP engines won't get you going very fast, but they can tow just about anything a long long way. The gas-oil mixture is 8:1, which makes them very smoky. I have not seen any problems with ethanol-based gasoline. They are extremely fuel efficient - mine reliably runs for an hour on a quart of fuel, while the Honda burns 3/4 of a gallon in an hour.

I love it for my Sunbird, but would never use it on Passage. Not because it would not push the boat -- it would. Just because there's no electric start on mine.

Last point -- they are NOT collector's items. Last time I priced one like mine a year ago, I could pick one up for well under $800. For anybody who likes playing with engines, and who wants a reliable one, try it. You'll like it.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2011 : 08:45:14

At about the age of 10-12, I left some skin from the palm of my hand and fingers seared onto the exposed exhaust pipe of a British Seagull. 55 years later I can too easily remember the pain. Can't say I'm fond of those little... um..... things.

Regarding collectors, I just had never seen a [url="http://www.britishseagullparts.com/model-170.htm"]Model 170[/url] like T8 has, or knew such a thing existed. All I've seen is the kind I... you know.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/10/2011 08:55:32

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2011 : 09:29:45

I have had two Seagulls, both 3 HP. Both came on Alberg designed boats. Much as I love Alberg Boats (had 3) he was kind of a purist about motors. My South Coast 23 had an in cockpit motor well which would accomodate the 3 HP Seagull or something very similar. I used it for several years until I made an error in wind judgment (anybody else ever do that?) and almost had a severe incident involving a narrow channel and a seawall.

Next week bought a 9.9 Evinrude, electric start, extra long shaft, remote control (like on a power boat) plus had to buy a motor mount. Then hired somebody to glass over the motor well, leaving only a drain hole. (great beer cooler)

I stuck the Seagull in my attic (New Orleans) and three years later, pulled it out to show to friends. Clamped it to my work bench, cleaned the plug and it started on the third pull. Used it for a dinghy motor for years, then set it outside my window in the rain and weather for another three years. Started on the third pull.

It is now hanging from a rafter in my garage where it has been since 1994. I betcha' with a clean plug and some gas, third pull, anyone?

One thing I would seriously recommend re Seagulls. If you don't have recoil start--and many don't--make up a couple of extra pull cords and stow them very close to the motor. It can get really exciting when you drop the darn thing overboard and have to start it Right Now. Don't ask.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2011 : 10:20:58

My friend with SeaGulls only has low HP manual starts and doesn't know anything about electric starts. They are designed for low speed displacement boats and produce more useful low speed thrust than most engine/prop combos designed for higher speed boats at similar HP - rather like diesels' low RPM torque and gas engines high RPM horsepower. Like all two strokes, they run forever and have few parts to break.

Edited by - on

T8BECKHAM
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2011 : 14:05:55

Awesome- thanks everyone- Great info- I appreciate the info and all of your time- Looking forward to getting my C-25 wet.

Tate Beckham

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2011 : 18:39:02

So you're going with the Gull?

I'd have to admit, you'll get some attention...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/10/2011 18:40:01

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2011 : 08:07:35

A friend once said "the Seagull will push your boat at one knot or it will push the Queen Mary at one knot. The Seagull doesn't care."

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2011 : 14:57:56

Maybe the Japanese can use it to put their island back where it used to be.

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