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Flares and Strobes?

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 15:02:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 In some respects, I think the flag is more functional than a flare, as a daytime distress signal. The flag must be 3 feet square (which is 9 square feet), and international orange with a black square and a black circle on it. Thus, it's big, and it's distinctive enough that, if you saw it flying on a boat, you'd probably investigate further, and, if you saw someone waving at you, you'd realize someone needed help. It has no expiration date, so it never needs to be replaced. Also, when it is displayed, it remains there until you take it down. A flare, by comparison, only burns for a short time, and then it burns out. If you don't attract someone's attention with 3 flares, you're done. I had a distress flag on my C25, but don't have one on my present boat, and am thinking I should get one.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 15:28:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 In some respects, I think the flag is more functional than a flare, as a daytime distress signal. The flag must be 3 feet square (which is 9 square feet), and international orange with a black square and a black circle on it. Thus, it's big, and it's distinctive enough that, if you saw it flying on a boat, you'd probably investigate further, and, if you saw someone waving at you, you'd realize someone needed help. It has no expiration date, so it never needs to be replaced. Also, when it is displayed, it remains there until you take it down. A flare, by comparison, only burns for a short time, and then it burns out. If you don't attract someone's attention with 3 flares, you're done. I had a distress flag on my C25, but don't have one on my present boat, and am thinking I should get one.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Did Orion stop making this product?

It came with the flag and a bunch of other safety gear.

http://simplesurvival.info/hp_zencart/index.php?main_page=popup_image& pID=224& zenid=06akc7qnthpj7vfq4q4hs06nu0

sten
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Westmarine currently has it for sale for $8.99, Sten. Defender has it for $6.99.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/18/2011 15:31:53

redviking
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Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 15:39:12

Well yes, but it used to come standard with the full kit...

sten

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 16:06:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Well yes, but it used to come standard with the full kit...

sten
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think you're right, but I don't know if it's still included in the kit. In fact, as I recall, I think that's how I got mine.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 16:28:02

It's called the Orion Alert Locate Plus now (Item #574)

[url="http://www.orionsignals.com/Marine/Products/aerial.html"]Orion Marine [/url]

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2011 : 19:20:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Dave,

I wouldn't consider a discussion that inspires one captain to buy a flare gun and handheld flares and another to add a distress flag to his safety equipment, silly. As someone who lost one brother to a pool drowning accident and almost lost another to drowning right in front of me at a beach (he was revived, thank God!), I'm very well aware of the dangers presented by the water. That's why discussions such as this, that I know at times start out innocently enough yet can seem to get out of hand, are still important.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Competely agreed! I was thinking my discussion of the hypothetical 25-footer that had no lights--not a very realistic scenario. But then again, if your lights are there but don't work, and you get inspected, the same principles would apply. So I guess even that isn't silly. I strongly suspect the USCG wants all running lights fully operational, regardless of the time of day you get inspected. If they aren't, that's evidence to the Coasties that you are not generally ship-shape, which might affect how they look at everything else.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/18/2011 19:21:16

redeye
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Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 05:43:00

I bought one of those plastic flare guns one time and it would not fire. I was pretty upset. Crap from China. I've owned the low cost signal flashlight from ranger joes for over 10 years and it still works. It has outlasted several lights/strobes from West Marine. The new ones are LED lights and they are not 2 mile lights, but they signal.

I've owned 6 "C lights" (my cave diving lights) two of them for over 30 years and they still work. Nice to have something that lasts. Still using them onboard.

Edited by - redeye on 04/19/2011 05:51:31

redeye
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Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 06:21:03

http://www.divers-supply.com/Princeton-Tec-Aqua-Strobe-Dive-Light-P1631.aspx

I use these on my dive gear for night diving, one on the back of my bc attached all the time, and another in my pocket to attach to the return point..

I guess they might be good for the sailboat also.

Edited by - redeye on 04/19/2011 06:22:14

redeye
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Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 06:23:34

http://www.divers-supply.com/Princeton-Tec-Tec-400-Dive-Light-P1632.aspx

I really recommend these. They last forever. Mine ( earlier versions ) held an extra bulb inside.

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 06:57:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 It's called the Orion Alert Locate Plus now (Item #574)

[url="http://www.orionsignals.com/Marine/Products/aerial.html"]Orion Marine [/url]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

SO, they eliminated the big round cannister chock full of goodies and repackaged it such that not everything comes with it... Lovely...

I just audited my cannister a few months ago and replaced a few flares. It came with a flag and even some meds and a packet of water, along with the flare gun and handheld smoke and visual flares. Even a signaling mirror. Thinking about adding personal dye marker capsules for my offshore pfd harnesses.

sten

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 07:02:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 I bought one of those plastic flare guns one time and it would not fire. I was pretty upset. Crap from China. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a simple mechanism really. It should have fired if the flare was good. You have to manually cock the gun. Not just pull the trigger. Operator error?

The 12mm is more crappy than the 25 mm which is typically made of either better plastic or metal, but both do work and have been used by zillions of us...

Note: this guy invented an insert that allows either the 12mm or 25mm to fire a .38 bullet. One shot only for the 12mm - you can reload the 25mm...

http://www.captainforhire.com/products.htm

sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 07:23:53

This brings up a guideline I find useful when we're enjoying an evening on the water... Of all of the lights out there (and there are a lot around here), a steady light is generally a vessel, a flashing light is generally a navigation aid, and a strobe is trouble. With a very few exceptions, vessels should not have flashing lights (although stay away from yellow flashing lights), nav-aids won't have steady lights, and nobody should turn on a strobe unless they're in distress (or they're an emergency vessel).

Helps make sense of the mess.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 07:27:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 
Note: this guy invented an insert that allows either the 12mm or 25mm to fire a .38 bullet. One shot only for the 12mm - you can reload the 25mm...

http://www.captainforhire.com/products.htm

sten
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
^^^LOL, that's awesome! If we weren't aloud to already carry firearms, I'd be all over that.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 04/19/2011 07:28:03

redviking
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Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 08:36:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 
Note: this guy invented an insert that allows either the 12mm or 25mm to fire a .38 bullet. One shot only for the 12mm - you can reload the 25mm...

http://www.captainforhire.com/products.htm

sten
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
^^^LOL, that's awesome! If we weren't aloud to already carry firearms, I'd be all over that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's designed for cruisers who don't want the hassle of clearing their gun/s in and out of foreign countries. It does count as a gun if the insert is installed. Most folks buy two inserts and outfit two flare guns - one shot might not be enough and reloading quickly might be difficult.

I still think those 45 second 1000' SOLAS rocket flares will work just fine.

sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 08:48:47

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...especially the laser-guided ones.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2011 : 19:42:41

I submitted the following question concerning the navigation light requirement to the USCG Navigation Center...

The Federal Requirements for Boats brochure states, "Navigation lights shall be displayed from sunset to sunrise and during periods of restricted visibility (fog, rain, haze, etc)"

If I sail my 25ft sailboat only during the day when its nice and sunny and never at night, do I still need functioning navigation lights?

I know I should have navigation lights, and I do, but I interpret the rule to mean that if a boat doesn't have lights, it can still go out during daylight hours in good weather. Is that so? Can a boat without functioning navigation lights still go out during a sunny day and be in compliance with Federal Requirements?

Thank you,

Sincerely

Don Lucier

-----Original Message-----
From: tis-pf-webmasternavcen@uscg.mil [mailto:tis-pf-webmasternavcen@uscg.mil]
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:59 PM
To: HQS-PF-fldr-CG-553
Cc: TIS-PF-Webmaster@navcen; Baca, Michael; TIS-PF-NISWS
Subject: 324 - Your USCG NavRules Inquiry

Greetings,

Recreational vessels are not required to be fitted with navigation lights, however, should a manufacturer opt to sell the vessel with navigation lights they must do so with properly certified lights as set forth in 33 CFR 183, Subpart M. Notwithstanding, per Part C of the Navigation Rules, all vessels must display the appropriate navigation lights from sunset to sunrise and during periods of restricted visibility.

We hope this answers your inquiry and we exhort you to always navigate safely,

U.S. Coast Guard
Office of Navigation Systems
Washington, DC 20593-7851

33 CFR 183, Subpart M
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr& sid=120fe63662f227e8096cc404651ae3c0& rgn=div6& view=text& node=33:2.0.1.8.45.13& idno=33

Navigation Rules On-line
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2011 : 11:29:19

Don't know about everyone else, but the USCG's response that "recreational vessels are not required to be fitted with navigation lights" was news to me.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2011 : 11:40:56

Ya just gotta be home before dark.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 04/20/2011 : 14:17:02

I'm pissed about that already. Go figure.

Sten

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2011 : 17:38:35

It seems every new boat that's big enough to have a battery comes with lights. Anything smaller, likely with no charging from an engine, needs to buy the flashlight-style stick-ons from WM or wherever. I can't say that doesn't make sense.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2011 : 16:17:07

I am looking at buying a strobe and light. I am looking at ACR C and Revere. The Revere turns on as soon as you hit the water,a plus. Additionally, they last twice as long and are visable for 3 miles unlike ACR's 2 mile.
Does anyone have any experience with these products or seen any reviews.
Thanks,
Steve A

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2011 : 10:39:07

I carry a flag for day and a strobe that flashes SOS for night . I was checked by the CG 2 weeks ago and this combo passes muster with them. The battery's in the night strobe have to be dated in the same year as you are in. Like Dave said I also carry some old flares. As to Don's question about lights, I think that if the manufacturer did not equipped the boat with lights and you get stopped during the day time hours,They shouldn't be able to write a ticket but If the boat came from the manufacturer with lights and they aren't working you will get a ticket.

Edited by - islander on 07/15/2011 11:08:29

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2011 : 14:27:14

I do recall that the Coasties have checked the operation of my lights each time I've been boarded. That could have been for courtesy, or they could have been looking for a violation--I have no clue.

Regarding strobes and other lights, be aware that if you're in the water with a strobe, another person whose eyes are 6' above the water can only see that light from within about three miles--beyond that, it's over the horizon. A flare fired 50' in the air can be seen by that same person from over 12 miles (subject to visibility, of course). The flare is also more recognizable as a distress signal--the white strobe is just sort of a flashing light. The strobe lasts longer and is good for locating you, but it's not as good for getting somebody's attention in "big water", especially in daylight. I'm sometimes 10+ miles out, and there may or may not be other boats within 5 miles of me...

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2011 : 16:54:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 As to Don's question about lights, I think that if the manufacturer did not equipped the boat with lights and you get stopped during the day time hours,They shouldn't be able to write a ticket but If the boat came from the manufacturer with lights and they aren't working you will get a ticket.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The rules say you must display navigation lights between sunset and sunrise and not that you must have working navigation lights at all times.

Edited by - on

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