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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

creating a wooden rubrail...

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JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/18/2011 : 19:15:59

Looks like our sailing season is going to be cut drastically short here in OKC. This drought has depleted the reservoir we sail on and I'm not paying another extra slip fees to move Genevieve to another lake. So, as a coping mechanism, my mind is moving on towards some of the winter upgrades that will fill my time.

Chief among those upgrades is the rub rail. That new paint job really made the rail look shabby. We'd like to do a nice wide wooden replacement. I've seen boats, even C25s, with wooden rub rails before and it looks really good. I think there was one for sale on this forum that sported a mahogany rail. My question to the knowledgable is...

Does the rub rail have a structural purpose aside from protecting that portion of the boat from impact?

If so, does replacing it with a wooden version compromise any structural integrity?

I know there would be more upkeep, but for us it'd be worth it for the charm of a little more wood on the boat.

Thanks for your thoughts, enjoy the rest of the sailing season.

to life!
Josh
"Genevieve" 1980 SR/WK
Lake Hefner, OKC
www.towindward.tumblr.com

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2011 : 07:21:15

I don't know anything about the rubrail, other than my old gray rubber one helps my boat bounce off pilings once in a while.

Sorry to hear about your skinny water! If you happen to be bringing your family from OK to DC to tour the museums and the nation's capital, give me a buzz and we can all go sailing on the Chesapeake Bay!

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2011 : 13:01:24

Rubrail has no structural purpose. Its pure cosmetic and acts as a car bumper.

Irony is the thing, that I want that original rubrail and you want to put the original one in a junk

If you go into woody rubrail, I would select some hard wood. The best is teak, but its costly. Also I would not suggest to warnish it, just one impact and warnish is gone.

One more hint. Behind the hull-to-deck joint (rubrail) there is an core plywood plank. Seal all original screw holes with epoxy and then drill new ones for the woodrail. As a sealant, put a small piece of butyl around the screws from the inside of the woodrail.

Wood is nice on boat, but only inside. Every piece of wood outside means many hours of unnecessary maintenance instead of sailing

Edited by - on

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2011 : 22:05:26

This could be a remove rubrail topic too. Once it is off, a hull to deck joint? Does that need attention too? I see surplus teak on ebay from a completed project, that is at least what the guy is saying. Teak nicks pretty easily but sands back down like putty. Would look better after 30 years than all the high contrast nicks with plastic rubrail.

Edited by - on

bradminda
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2011 : 23:08:44

Josh,
Love the painted hull. Black or dark blue? did you paint the top sides as well? I would like to look into painting mine as well. What was the product you used and idea on cost.

Thanks Brad

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2011 : 11:35:40

I'm not so sure a wooden rub rail is a good idea. Wood, even Teak, Mahogony, Ipe, Redwood, Cedar, and other, "outdoor-appropriate" woods, will dry out, splinter, and crack from the sun (think of the grab rails and framing around the hatch). One good "bump" and you're looking at some pretty significant work to fix it. I'm pretty sure that's why they use rubber/plastic - it is much more forgiving.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2011 : 13:41:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 ...Wood, even Teak, Mahogony, Ipe, Redwood, Cedar, and other, "outdoor-appropriate" woods, will dry out, splinter, and crack from the sun...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I dunno... Ipe is tougher than just about any plastic--it's so dense it doesn't float, and it eats drill bits like they were potato chips. The trick might be bending it.

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2011 : 20:24:59

I have some Lignum Vitae from which I made a shaving brush handle. That stuff has been in my shower every day for the last 5 or 6 years, and still looks decent (no dents, despite being dropped several times, but it could use a good polishing and cleaning). However, I suspect that even LV, which is one of the densest woods in the world and very oily to boot, would still have trouble in the sun and salt water.

To me, the "beauty" of the rubber rub rails is that they are (comparitively) inexpensive to replace, and any damage tends to stay localized to the point of impact. This is, of course, just my humble opinion. If you've got the money to throw at installing wooden rub rails along the entire hull line and don't mind the thought of them getting smashed and bashed, by all means, go right ahead!

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2011 : 20:05:55

I don't think you want the fancy hard woods. A wooden rub rail is there as is the rubber one, a bumper. It should be made out of a relativly cheep and easy to form and replace. If you need a hard wood try oak. soft wood a nice clear pine from a box store should do. I think your problem would be fastening. I wouldn't drill holes because you need to seal them. I'll think on it too.

Edited by - on

JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 00:31:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 I don't know anything about the rubrail, other than my old gray rubber one helps my boat bounce off pilings once in a while.

Sorry to hear about your skinny water! If you happen to be bringing your family from OK to DC to tour the museums and the nation's capital, give me a buzz and we can all go sailing on the Chesapeake Bay!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks man, I'd love to see the Chesapeake Bay from a boat!

Edited by - on

JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 00:37:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bradminda
 Josh,
Love the painted hull. Black or dark blue? did you paint the top sides as well? I would like to look into painting mine as well. What was the product you used and idea on cost.

Thanks Brad
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hey Brad,
We used Interlux's flag blue for the topsides, white on the deck and Bottomkote red for the wet part. It's held up really well so far, I'm super impressed for how easy it was to put on. Of course, I wouldn't say that in the middle of last winter when I freezing my @$$ off in my driveway sanding and priming for days! Painting is not the best option and most guys here will advise against it. But if you have as much dock rash as we did, it's the only way to go.

You can check out the whole process on our blog. Let me know if you have any questons.

Edited by - on

keeldad
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 09:41:00

I've seen plastic rubrails with rope inserts in them. It would seem to me that it would take dings well, be low maintenance and easily replacable if needed and look more "traditional" than the standard issue plastic.

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bradminda
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2011 : 08:40:43

Josh,
Thanks for the painting info. An ideas I have had is to paint ther rubber part of the rub rail. Aproduct is out now in a spray paint that is just for rubber and plastic. It bonds with not just on the painted serfice. I have used it a number of time and have been auite pleased.
Brad

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 20:15:06

Josh, how did the paint job hold up through the season? I've read stories about not changing the color because any scrapes allow the underlying hull color to show through. That being said, I REALLY like the blue hull!

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JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 21:31:58

Jim- The paint held up surprisingly well over 4 months of sailing about 3 times a week. We often have 4-5 people aboard and I was a little worried that the foot traffic would wreak havoc on the deck paint. We really only have 2-3 little knicks. One on deck where I sat and the metal button of my back pocket dug into the finish. The others were the result of our derelict slip bumper and a distracted skipper. Not the paints fault anyway.

Long story short. I'd recommend Brightside if you're white hull looks like crap and you can't match the gelcoat.

Edited by - on

JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 21:49:06

Sorry for the double post. I forgot what I originally came on to talk about. I'm moving forward with the wooden rub rail. We're also adding a bowsprit to the boat as well.
I've been really into building fly rods this winter and have a sailing buddy that needs a rod. He's got a woodshop and we decided to trade. A 2wt fly rod with a birch bark grip for a custom bowsprit. I'd say thats a fair deal!

I've got the old rail off and the new rub rail all fab'd up with stain and varnish. We're doing it from oak with a danish teak stain and Interlux Schooner Varnish to finish it. It's a pretty close match to our brightwork that we did with Cetol Natural. We'll countersink #10 SS screws into new, evenly spaced holes in the deck. Of course we'll seal everything up as well. We'll probably get all the rail on tomorrow, then the bowsprit on Sunday if things work out. Here are some photos of the rail after the first coat of varnish.

I know, I know. This thing will be beat to hell after 30 years and I'll have to re-finish it every couple years. (Actually probably not, since we have a full canvas cover for the off season) But it's a fun little project and I love tinkering with this boat!

Besides, wood on a boat is like chrome on a Harley right?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 22:40:19

There are many ways to find happiness on a boat and we each find our own.

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2012 : 15:16:00

I'm looking forward to the "after" pictures! Thanks for the update on the paint job!

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JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2012 : 20:32:37

We installed the rub rail yesterday and I'm really pleased with the way it turned out. We had to cut an1/8" x1 1/8" away from the inner face of the oak in order to mate it up to to the hull to deck joint. So the profile is a little lower than I originally planned on the upper edge. The bowsprit is next!

[

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2012 : 02:10:21

PO of my boat replaced that original AL rails by some cheap vinyl base and vinyl insert, but after a few years it was hard as rock from the sun.

I was too thinking about replacing it by teak rails, but a new teak is as expensive as new AL rails. So finally I bought new AL profile. Not original but similar size from local supplier. I have to do the same before & after photos this spring

Oak is good choice in terms of price.

I would use the sunk screws, but very nice anyway.

Edited by - on

JoshMcCullock
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2012 : 07:07:02

It's hard to tell in the photo but they are slightly countersunk.

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2012 : 07:21:53

Looks very nice, Josh!

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zfrenchman
Deckhand

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Canada
9 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2012 : 08:37:14

Hi Josh, I really like what you've done with your boat. I was hoping to see more pictures on your webpage of the finished paint job. Especially when the boat had been put together and back in the water. I followed the restoration pics closely, as I hope to do the same to my C25. The pic of her in the water by your signature is inspiring.

The wooden rub rail looks great, how did you finish the stern? And lastly, I see you have a canvas cover on the cabin top, looks very clever.

Every time I look at this forum, I find great ideas, solutions to problems, it in invaluable to a newbie like me.

Thanks

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2012 : 09:41:04

I love that look, it's my favorite.....dark paint topsides, red bottom, wooden rub rail. That is just so elegant and luxurious. Beautiful vessel you've got there!

If I were to invest the $$$$ for paint, it's what I'd do.

Please post some detailed pics of your sprit from various angles..... I really want to see that.....

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2012 : 09:47:14

Very, very nice!

That bowsprit looks expensive. Not in the sense of the cost of materials, but if it were on my boat, I'd be charged wet slip fees for a 27 footer and it would also add to the square footage calculation when storing on the hard.

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 02/27/2012 : 10:16:13

Josh,
One thing that the old wooden boat builders used to do was install a sacrificial pine (3/4 x 3/4)piece on top of the hardwood rail. The pine takes the hits and is cheap to replace. It gives you a larger deeper profile which you would need to decide was to your taste or not. It will definitely preserve the oak underneath.
BTW, I have essentially the same vintage Catalina 25 and painted her topsides what looks to be the same color. In fact used the same color scheme throughout - Navy, white stripe, red bottom.
Great minds think alike

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