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NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/09/2011 : 13:44:10

I just came in from sailing and I am flustered. I wanted to just have a nice casual jib only sail. Did not plan on putting the keel down.

First off it is shallow where I need to get out. I bumped bottom a few times and the motor was not running right. I found out the breathing screw on the tank was not working correctly so I open the fill knob and then it ran fine.
I then found out you cannot get even close to pointing to windward with just a jenny and no main and no keel. What was I thinking.?

I do not have roller furling which I need.

I just had my 72nd birthday and I hope that is not the cause of my frustration.

I need to either buy roller furling (means I will need new headsails.)

Bottom line I would like to sell Black Pearl and buy a boat with roller furling.
I recently had the bottom painted, replaced the swing keel cable and lead all halyards to the cockpit with triple turning sheaves and double rope clutches.

The boat also has a 2009 Nissan long shaft 9.8 4 stroke engine. (still has brake in oil in it.) I am about to change that.

Make me an offer I can't refuse.

1998 Catalina 250WK
Ravaging
Albemarle Sound,NC

I spent most of my money on boats and beer, the rest I just wasted.

Edited by - NCBrew on 10/09/2011 13:47:20

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 13:51:34

Gat a baggy for your Jib so you can leave it hanked on.

Paul

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 15:13:07

Before you "pull the plug" on Black Pearl, why not give her another few days to see if it's just a "bad day"?

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 15:18:24

And don't raise ANY sail unless the keel is down....

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 18:56:23

The three previous posts cover it all. Roller furling IS nice, but it won't make trying to sail with the keel up any better.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 19:44:24

Yup, and yup! The SK is not meant to be under sail (to windward) with the keel up. If draft is a big issue, you could try her at half-up, but that changes the sailing dynamics--she'll probably exhibit serious lee helm (not very safe).

Bottom line: You want a boat that sails properly in the waters you want to sail in. The C-25 SK is the deepest draft of the C-25 bunch, while the wing keel is the shallowest--just a couple of inches deeper than the fully-raised swing.

What can I say?

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 04:32:54

Thanks for all the answers. This boat fills all my needs. I can leave it in the back yard tied up to the bulkhead. I can also look at it another way. In retrospect I normally hank on the jib before I leave, and remove the main sail cover. Had I done what I do normally it would have not been so frustrating. Especially if I had put the keel down and also not gone out when the water level so low. I really enjoy going out and sailing. Maybe I need to rethink my original idea to sell. Thanks for all the answers.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 05:15:00

Wow, 72 and still sailing? RESPECT !
Wish I will be able to do the same at that age.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 05:19:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Yup, and yup! The SK is not meant to be under sail (to windward) with the keel up. If draft is a big issue, you could try her at half-up, but that changes the sailing dynamics--she'll probably exhibit serious lee helm (not very safe).

Bottom line: You want a boat that sails properly in the waters you want to sail in. The C-25 SK is the deepest draft of the C-25 bunch, while the wing keel is the shallowest--just a couple of inches deeper than the fully-raised swing.

What can I say?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Draft is not an issue once I clear the opening. Albemarle Sound is about 20 ft deep.

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 06:30:45

I had a CDI roller furler installed this year (along with new sails replacing the blown out originals.) The furler changed my life. I highly recommend a furling headsail and the CDI is the cheapest and easiest of the bunch. I often sail with just my 4 year old daughter who is great company but lousy crew. On those days, I leave the mainsail cover on and just sail with the headsail. No, you can't point as well and sometimes it is easier to jibe than tack, but sail handling could not be easier.

If I could just find a way to raise and lower the keel from the cockpit, I would be a happy camper!

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 06:46:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pfduffy
 I had a CDI roller furler installed this year (along with new sails replacing the blown out originals.) The furler changed my life. I highly recommend a furling headsail and the CDI is the cheapest and easiest of the bunch. I often sail with just my 4 year old daughter who is great company but lousy crew. On those days, I leave the mainsail cover on and just sail with the headsail. No, you can't point as well and sometimes it is easier to jibe than tack, but sail handling could not be easier.

If I could just find a way to raise and lower the keel from the cockpit, I would be a happy camper!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What did the CDI furler cost and where did you buy it? Also which system do you have (FF1, FF2, etc
Also what is the cost of a 110 or 130 furling sail?

Edited by - NCBrew on 10/10/2011 06:52:01

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 07:28:27

If you like the boat, keep it and invest in the roller furler and new sail. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. You know all of Pearl's leaks and maintenance issues, if any, but, if you buy another boat, you'll never know all it's problems until after you buy it. It could cost more to fix them than it would have cost to change Pearl over to roller furling. If and when you eventually sell Pearl, you'll never get back the cost of a new sail and furler, but then you never get back all the money you spend for a new car either. Owning a boat isn't an investment. It enriches your life, and personally, I consider the cost of sailing as money well-spent.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 07:38:53

Patrick,

If you nose around on the internet and be patient, you can find second hand furlers - especially with the increased number of boats being parted-out due to storm damage.

I sold one this past spring that was in excellent operating condition for $300. Far less trouble than changing boats!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 07:41:34

Brew,

Get the furler and save money by having your current jenny modified for the furler extrusion. The sail loft will need to know the slot width in the extrusion to add the correct sized tape.

Duffy,

I constantly amazed that nobody has tried to adapt a small ORV winch to raising and lowering the swing keel. Often they are equipped with wired or wireless remote controls. I know that if I owned a swinger I'd have done it after only a few iterations of cranking that heavy keel up and down.

Edited by - aeckhart on 10/10/2011 07:43:39

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 07:46:30

I'm glad you are reconsidering your decision to sell!

If cost is an issue, you might consider building your own roller furler. Here are some instructions:
This one is for a Com-Pac, but has pictures: http://faculty.augie.edu/~swart/CP-16/Roller%20Furler.html

This one is listed in the Catalina section of another site:
http://catalina.sailboatowners.com/images/kb/pdf/124.pdf

I haven't tried it, but it looks simple enough.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 07:55:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 
I need to either buy roller furling (means I will need new headsails.)

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Or?

Sorry, couldn't resist.....even in my first year of total excitement, there has been a time or two when I was out there thinking "WTF am I doing out here".....

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 08:04:13

My furler was purchased (and installed) as a package with my new sails from Moorhouse Sailmakers in Medford, NJ (my local sailmaker.) It is an FF4, without the ball bearing option. I believe the furler added about $550 to the cost of the project. I agree that it is probably pretty easy to find a used furler if budget is an issue. Another option is one of the offshore sailmakers who would sell you a package deal.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 11:13:03

I have the money so i am either going to purchase a CDI FF4 (found one for $588.00.) (I have about $21,000 in American Eagle Silver dollars (anyone want to buy a few.?
Price is great and almost guaranteed to go up.
Now I need a furling headsail. I presently have a 110 and a 150. I am thinking of a 135 as it would be my only headsail. Or should I get a 150 and reef it in when needed?

I also looked at homemade PVC furling and it looks like it would be easy to make but I have not found exact plans for a Catalina 25.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Edited by - NCBrew on 10/10/2011 11:15:49

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 11:35:23

Check out these guys. I have no knowledge of this company or affiliation with them but they do offer a Sail/CDI package at a discount.

http://nationalsail.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3& cat=15

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 11:56:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 Check out these guys. I have no knowledge of this company or affiliation with them but they do offer a Sail/CDI package at a discount.

http://nationalsail.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3& cat=15
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That seems like a good buy.

Catalina 25 std Roller Furling Package
Furling package including the 150% roller furling deluxe genoa AND a new CDI model FF4 furling system
Price: $1309.00
This would make me happy. Now how hard is it to assemble and how well will it sail furled in part way?

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 13:38:05

The hardest part of assembling the CDI FF4 is pushing the extrusion up the forestay. If the mast is down it is not as big an issue but if the mast is up you need to push the entire weight of the extrusion up a floppy forestay. I can tell you how I did this. I pushed an electrical fish snake through the extrusion and then connected it to the end of the forestay with a piece of wire. I put a hook in the end of the snake to allow the wire to attach. Then I had my wife pull on the snake while I pushed the extrusion up the forestay. Once the extrsuion had cleared the top of swaged fitting on the bottom of the forestay I clamped a vice grip on the forestay (flat part above the threaded part) to prevent the extrsuion from sliding back down. Then it just took connecting the turnbuckle to the forestay and the subsequent connection to the stem fitting to secure the forestay/shroud assembly. The rest is just mechanical connections.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 13:50:21

Let me strongly suggest that the 150% is too much sail for your boat. Get a 135%. Perfect sail for our boats.

I'm very happy with my FF4 (came with the boat) and my 135% from National Sail. The only thing I'd change would be to get the ball bearing option for the furler.

All of this is a lot cheaper than a new boat.

Oh, yeah, sailing a displacement boat without a properly deployed keel is a bad thing. Motor with it up until you clear the sandbar, Then lower away and enjoy.

Edited by - John Russell on 10/10/2011 13:52:50

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 14:05:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Let me strongly suggest that the 150% is too much sail for your boat. Get a 135%. Perfect sail for our boats.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">John, NCBrew's boat is a C25, not a 250. You're right that a 135 is probably a better all-around choice of sail for his boat, but a 150 on a C25 isn't too much for it. In the case of the C25, the choice between a 135 and a 150 is a matter of preference, and where and how he intends to use it.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 15:54:26

Steve:
How well will it sail with a 150 half way in?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 16:00:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Let me strongly suggest that the 150% is too much sail for your boat. Get a 135%. Perfect sail for our boats.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">John, NCBrew's boat is a C25, not a 250. You're right that a 135 is probably a better all-around choice of sail for his boat, but a 150 on a C25 isn't too much for it. In the case of the C25, the choice between a 135 and a 150 is a matter of preference, and where and how he intends to use it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I understand, Steve. I just think since he mentioned age as a contributing factor and the many threads on the subject suggesting the shortfalls of a partially furled 150%, a 135% is likely the better sail. There's no getting around the reality that a 150% is just plain more work. I really think he'd be very disappointed in a 150%, not to mention the added expense.

I just had a discussion last night with a guy about how pleased he was to have replaced his 150% with a furling 135% on his C25.

I agree, it really is based on preference and sailing conditions.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2011 : 16:11:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 Steve:
How well will it sail with a 150 half way in?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It won't sail as well as a 130-135 half way in, but sail selection with a roller furler is always a compromise. A roller furling jib doesn't sail as well as a hanked-on jib, but you're willing to accept that in order to have the convenience of a furler. If you sail in an area where the winds are characteristically light, then you won't furl the jib very often, and an unfurled 150 will perform very well. If you sail in an area where the winds are characteristically very strong, then you will sail with it furled a large percentage of the time, and that means it will not be performing well a large percentage of the time. If I sailed in an area with generally light air, I'd want the bigger sail. If I sailed in an area with generally stronger winds, I'd want the 135. It depends on where you sail. My present roller furling 140 works well for me on the Chesapeake Bay. It isn't as efficient as if I had different sized sails for different wind strengths, but I only need one sail to cover every windspeed halfway decently. I don't race my boat, so I don't need perfect sails.

Edited by - on

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