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pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2011 : 19:21:27

Halyard wrap is not an issue with the CDI. As Dave mentions, it has an internal halyard so to hoist your new jib, you will haul the messenger line which you will have attached to the end of the halyard which will be secured at the drum when the sail is fully hoisted. Works great.

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2011 : 21:21:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I was merely cautioning against (1) a home-made furler, and (2) the cheapest one you can buy. I think we agree on the value of proven, robust systems on a boat.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Totally agree with you on both points! Things that can affect the controllability of our boats are, in my mind, safety related hardware as much as making things more convenient/fun, and are not the places to scrimp!

And certainly do not hesitate challenging anything I say or write or do!! After all, thats what we do on the race course isn't it!!! Keeps us all on our toes!! <grin> If I ever stop learning, its time I think about getting fitted for a pine box!

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 07:02:00

I've been following this discussion as Patrick has wrestled with the question of whether to invest a lot of boat bucks in a new furler and sails, and suddenly realized that it's basically the same debate I have been having with myself. For several years, my furler hasn't been working properly, and I have been trying to decide whether to try to repair it, or to replace it with a new system. You guys have convinced me that it's time to bite the bullet, spend the bucks and stop struggling with gear that's broken. I'm going to order a new furler from Defender while the boat show discount is still in effect. Thanks for raising the question, Patrick.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 20:39:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 I've been following this discussion as Patrick has wrestled with the question of whether to invest a lot of boat bucks in a new furler and sails, and suddenly realized that it's basically the same debate I have been having with myself. For several years, my furler hasn't been working properly, and I have been trying to decide whether to try to repair it, or to replace it with a new system. You guys have convinced me that it's time to bite the bullet, spend the bucks and stop struggling with gear that's broken. I'm going to order a new furler from Defender while the boat show discount is still in effect. Thanks for raising the question, Patrick.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I bought my furler last year about this time while Defender was having their boat show special. I didn't get it installed until late this Spring. If I remember right I saved about $300.00 on the furler adn the other associatd pieces that go along with it.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2011 : 08:09:24

Well the CDI FF4 is installed and the mast back up

. I let it out at the dock and it looks great. I furled it back in and now i am waiting for the water level to come back up so I can try it out. I am already happy even before I try the new 135. The water level is controlled by the wind and at this time of year we have mostly NW to NE wind so that does not help.

Anyway it is hunting season and so far I got 3 deer with a bow

so I can live for a while until the water comes back up. I will post as soon as I get to try the new 135.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2011 : 16:47:08

I have the CDI installed and I decided to wrap the new turnbuckle with safety wire. I let the sail out and I needed to lift the whole furler to get to the turnbuckle. When I did I had to let the sail down some so I can lift the drum. The line slipped out of my hand and the sail came almost all the way down on deck and the messenger line went up almost to the mast. So now this short line is hanging down and I cannot reach it. So I get a ladder and lean it on the spreaders and hook the bottom of it on the cleat on the deck. I get a fishing rod and tie a lure on with treble hooks. I climb the ladder and twirl the lure and it hooks the wrong line. It hooked the other end of the messenger line so I have to climb down and hoist the sail by hand with the weight of the fishing rod pulling the line down. I finally get it low enough to grab and untangle the fishing lure and then climb back up the ladder and snag the short end of the messenger line and while pulling down on the fishing rod with one hand and feeding the new 135 into the slot I finally get the messenger back in hand and hoist the sail back up. I will never attempt that again with out another line attached to it.
I hope you can understand what happened. I am glad the other half did not see me up that ladder holding on to the spreaders.

I am still waiting for the water to come back up. Wind today was north at 17 so the canal is very low.

Patrick

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2011 : 20:06:19

Good work, Patrick! Glad I wasn't watching! I'm surprised the sail falls down from the CDI furler so easily--with my Hood furler (multi-section aluminum) I had to yank the sail down a foot at a time.

When all is said and done, you're going to love that furler!

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2011 : 11:20:22

Hopefully the water level will come back soon!!!

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2012 : 07:59:21

Well the temperature is predicted to be 60!!!! this afternoon and the water level is up somewhat, so I will try to take Black Pearl out today. The wind is from the West at 6 knots but I am ready to try the CDI furling and the 135 Genoa.
I will post when i get back in.

Edited by - NCBrew on 01/24/2012 08:00:15

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2012 : 18:41:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 Well the temperature is predicted to be 60!!!! this afternoon and the water level is up somewhat, so I will try to take Black Pearl out today. The wind is from the West at 6 knots but I am ready to try the CDI furling and the 135 Genoa.
I will post when i get back in.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well It was the best of sails and the worst of sails.
The water came up and I made it out with just a little scrapping of the bottom.

I put up the main and was on a beam reach with the wind at about 6-9 knots. As I unfurled the new 135 jenny I almost had to hold on. I mean the boat took off.
I did not have time to really test how high it would point but it looked good.

Now for the bad part. The wind kind of died so I put the sails in and started the 9.8 Nissan. It was a little hard to start (did not want to idle). I got it started and headed for the opening of the canal. Rubbed bottom going in and when I was nearly in I hit something very hard. I broke the rudder in half and almost knocked the motor off the mount. I finally got control and tied the boat up a nearby bulkhead. I could get the motor to run again by pulling out the choke but it would then die. It seems the property at the entrance suffered a huge hole in the bulkhead from our last storm and part of the bulkhead is in the water (under water) and I think that is what I hit.

I removed the motor and took it to a local Nissan dealer and $105 later I found the low speed jet in the carb was clogged, It now runs fine but I had to use the motor to steer to get back up to my property. I am going to install another fuel filter.

So now I must make or buy a rudder.

Any suggestions? I would like a balanced rudder.
I hope I can find plans and make one.

Edited by - NCBrew on 01/25/2012 18:44:26

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2012 : 19:03:18

Got insurance?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2012 : 19:50:50

Does the property owner with the bad bulkhead have insurance? They should have posted a sign warning of the hazard in a navigable waterway.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2012 : 21:47:23

Given your frequent scrapes, not to mention the new obstacles, you might want to consider CD's kick-up rudder. Pricy, but so is breaking a new rudder.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2012 : 06:40:45

Try Skipper Ddan in the swap meet for a rudder. He's parting out a 1977.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2012 : 17:49:20

I thought I posted this earlier today, but I guess not. The rudder is very vulnerable with the keel up or if you hit something hard and the keel bounces over it. A previous owner of Pearl converted a stock rudder to a kick-up - it's heavy and looks a little funky, but I have been glad to have it on several occasions.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2012 : 20:19:18

Dave,
Can you tell us more about the modification? I'm not averse to funky.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2012 : 08:06:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 Got insurance?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I do not have insurance but I am going to check on the land owner to see if hos home insurance will cover it.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2012 : 09:14:05

The rudder is cut on a semicircle above the WL and stainless plates on each side are through bolted to the upper portion. A large (1" or so) bolt with a tab welded on the head goes through the plates and the lower half of the rudder to pivot and clamp.there are disks under the bolt and nut to distributed pressure. I haven't taken it apart to see what he used as a bearing surface on the lower rudder, but I am planning to when I return to Ohio in March. I will try to post photos of the outside later today or tomorrow. I am also open to recommendations for photo storage since my .me gallery will be shutting down this year.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2012 : 12:08:23

I did it!!!!!!!!

I ordered the Rudder Craft kick up rudder from Catalina Direct. I was going to make my own rudder but this kick up rudder will make my life easier. I can leave it down going down the canal and lift it up to the full vertical position while I cross the low water then put it back down as soon as I reach the deep in Albemarle Sound.

I will let you know how it performs when I get it.

Edited by - NCBrew on 02/01/2012 03:19:50

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2012 : 15:17:29

What do you think about a sliding (adjustable depth) tiller like those on the Seaward boats?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2012 : 19:24:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 What do you think about a sliding (adjustable depth) tiller like those on the Seaward boats?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I actually like that design better than a pivoting blade. Most pivoting rudders are not designed to be used to steer with the blade in anything other than the full-down position--there can be too much leverage against their pivot structure when partially up. Some versions I've seen (and one I owned) don't protect well from pivoting partially upward, which can be dangerous under significant load. The Rudder Craft (Ida) version uses a gas strut to hold the blade down and allow it to kick up under impact. Earlier versions used a "shear pin." The strut sounds like an excellent solution.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2012 : 06:49:33

With the leading edge of the rudder being at, or behind, the pivot point suggests that it is not a balanced design?

Edited by - on

Mountaineer62
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2012 : 17:58:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
 I have the money so i am either going to purchase a CDI FF4 (found one for $588.00.) (I have about $21,000 in American Eagle Silver dollars (anyone want to buy a few.?
Price is great and almost guaranteed to go up.
Now I need a furling headsail. I presently have a 110 and a 150. I am thinking of a 135 as it would be my only headsail. Or should I get a 150 and reef it in when needed?

I also looked at homemade PVC furling and it looks like it would be easy to make but I have not found exact plans for a Catalina 25.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I was at Bacon Sails, Annapolis, on Wednesday, aqnd observed a couple furler drums. Believe they were single continuous line
furlers. Certain a rigger could use one of these and attach appropriae extrusions and necessary pendants. You might go onto their web site and see what sails (135%) in their inventory of used sails might fit. You might get lucky and find a furler headsail.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2012 : 11:15:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 With the leading edge of the rudder being at, or behind, the pivot point suggests that it is not a balanced design?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I was thinking the same thing when I first saw that rudder. CD says "Its balanced design reduces load on the tiller." I don't see it, and am curious as to what they mean by that.

I recall Arlyn Stewart (I think) modifying his C-250 kick-up rudder so that it swung slightly forward of vertical, putting some area forward of the pivot line to gain some balance.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2012 : 16:47:25

I checked the weather for the next 10 days and the wind and temp is supposed to be,

WED SW 16, Temp 66
THURSDAY SW 20 Temp 73
FRI SW 18 temp 70,
SAT W 18 temp 55
SUN W 7 temp 54,
MON S 10 temp 63,

That means the water will come up and I can get out of the canal and go SAILING. And test the new 135 with roller furling.
Almost like summer.

Edited by - NCBrew on 02/21/2012 16:48:48

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