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Best angle of Heel

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cshaw
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Response Posted - 10/11/2011 : 21:10:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Pittman
1. Is twisting off the top of the main achieved by the main sheet or traveler?

2. Can the tactic of powering up using the back-stay be explained in more detail and is depowering in windy conditions just the opposite?

3. If you are back-winding the luff of the main for extended periods of time is this a heads up to reef.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'll give my thoughts, and others should certainly chime in!

1. I use both. I find you need to have the foot of the main pulled as close to centerline as your heeling can stand, in order to be able to point while close hauled. So, if you are being overpowered, instead of letting out the mainsheet, first actually pull the traveller to weather of centerline, which allows you to pull the boom to/near centerline without having all the force as much downwards as it would be with the traveller on center. Not pulling downwards as much allows the boom to rise a bit, which opens up the top of the main spilling a bit of air and reducing heeling while still keeping the boom near centerline. Then in a big puff, feather up into the wind (not a hard luff, just put a little backwind in the jib), and if needed then ease the traveller rather than the mainsheet. Obvioulsy the next thing to do if still over powered is to then ease the mainsheet. As the puff finishes, reverse all that you did in the opposite order. It keeps you busy, but the weather leg is where you can make huge gains over boats that simply strap things down and slog to weather.....

If the wind is not over powering you, then don't haul the traveller to weather, so you keep the top of the sail powered up, but still play the traveller as needed as you feather thru the puffs.

Cat 25's do not have a nice long traveller track, but it is surprising how little you need to move the traveller to make big differences in how the boat sails to weather.

2. As the wind increases, the draft in your sails blows aft in the sail. You keep it pulled forward by tightening the halyard tension to tighten the cloth, and also straightening the luff itself by tightening the backstay. These adjustments have the effect of reducing weather helm since the center of lateral force moves forward (the keel and hull and rudder provide the center of lateral resistance, and you want them close to each other, with the force just a tiny bit aft of the resistance so you have a very small, controllable amount of Wx helm). However, this also has the effect of slightly depowering the boat. So, a quick way to add a touch of power back is to simply ease the backstay adjuster tension (a lot) after you hit a wave and the boat feels like its stopped. You will feel more weather helm, which keeps the bow up instead of blowing downwind, and as you feel her start to move well again, tighten the backstay back tight again. Dave Lindsey of Cameron Sails in Houston put me on to doing this. It was a very useful trick when sailing in the short steep chop that forms on Galveston Bay.

3. Well, yes and no. If you can sail the boat balanced and without excessive heel, then you are effective in depowering the main and I think you would lose more ground trying to reef than simply carrying a bubble. Full batten mains do not seem to like to carry a big backwind however, but that also seems to vary between the styles of battens and cuts of the mains I have seen. If you have a really long beat ahead of you, reefing will probably pay off, but I always try to tuck in the reef before we harden up to go to weather. We seem to lose far less ground doing the actual reef operations on a reach. For shorter beats, I carry a bubble while strapped in to have a larger un-reefed main on the following reach. But carrying a bubble means that mainsail leech is the only place generating much lift, so keep that leech as tight as you can with the boom hauled in to centerline as much as possible to be able to point, and play the games we talked about in #1 to keep her on her feet if you have to.....

There are LOTS of ways to get to the same point, and so many variables that make absolute cut and dried one size fits all techniques seem good one day and not work for you so well the next day.... So as you are looking at your rig, try envisioning the forces of the wind acting on the sails, and how making these changes affects the boat and that will help you pick which tricks (and how much of each) works for you!

Get out there and play and feel what happens!!!

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 06:45:05

I'll say it again, we've GOT to get Confetti and This Side Up on the racecourse together! A true one-design, heavyweight match race for the C-25 Intragalactic Championship! (The winner goes to the Intergalactics.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/12/2011 06:46:45

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 07:26:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Pittman
 3. If you are back-winding the luff of the main for extended periods of time is this a heads up to reef.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

John,

The appearance of a luff bubble is usually seen on a beat in higher winds as more air is being pushed through the slot. If you twist off the main to depower without a corresponding adjustment in the genoa track car to twist off the headsail, you may get a luff bubble as the slot starts to close in the upper part of the sails. The presences of a luff bubble is not necessarily a bad thing performance-wise as long as the bubble is as uniform and small as possible along the luff and not just concentrated in an area at the top of the sail.

During an America's cup race some time ago, the commentators were discussing the presence of a luff bubble on the main sail of the competitors and how it's not really a bad thing as a luff bubble is an indication the boat is maximizing the slot so long as the bubble is somewhat uniform and not excessive.

Of course, if you have a bagged out main, a luff bubble may be a fact of life no matter the wind speed.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 08:39:33

... and the luff bubble is also a function of the headsail you are running. A 150 will backwind the main a lot more than a 110. But as long as the leech tails are flying its all good.

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JohnP
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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 11:28:54

The angle of heel in the top photo is 56 degrees from vertical, including the tilted horizon!

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cshaw
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460 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 14:24:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 The angle of heel in the top photo is 56 degrees from vertical, including the tilted horizon!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi John!

Yup, you are quite right!!! I read the wrong side of the protractor when I measured it and estimated 43 or so. Thanks for the good catch!

I think 56 deg emphasizes my point even more however that such a big angle of heel with so much sail up and a neutral rudder is not a steady state situation!!!

But Twister was "looking Good"!!! <smile>

Chuck

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/12/2011 : 19:17:28

You can see his heel with his compass card, I don't know the markings on that model.

Edited by - pastmember on 10/12/2011 19:17:57

cshaw
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Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 05:35:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 You can see his heel with his compass card, I don't know the markings on that model.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nice approach to post the race info and compass on a board like that on the centerline so you can see it easily! I think my crew and I would probably clothes-line ourselves getting in and out of the cabin however.....

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 09:14:15

Hmmm... Me thinks me sees an upgraded, longer traveler on Twister's transom... You say this was the C-25 Nationals?

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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2011 : 09:25:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Hmmm... Me thinks me sees an upgraded, longer traveler on Twister's transom... You say this was the C-25 Nationals?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank said he installs stops on the traveler when class racing so as not to exceed the travel of a stock traveler. Looking at the photo, this appears to be the case.

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bigelowp
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Response Posted - 10/16/2011 : 06:03:19

If nothing else this post has brought forward some of the best shots of our boats being sailed well. Frank's shot that Don posted is one of my favorites

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