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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

New (to me) boat! Whats most important to fix?

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vipermagic
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/08/2011 : 07:00:29

So a few months ago I wound up with #1433 (I think, I don't have the paper in front of me) for a song, thanks to the PO's boat-hating wife and some fortunate (for me) circumstance. She's now on a trailer at my parent's house near Lake Erie in PA, and next summer I plan on bringing her out to Cleveland with me. So excited! If you want to see pictures of the boat and the moving process, budcraig.imgur.com

The boat is in amazing condition. The cushions and sails are all stellar, there's no blisters or cracks anywhere in the hull. The windows leak, but I understand this is nearly unavoidable. I have a friend with a moisture meter, and once we get it uncovered in the spring we're going to check out the deck. I'm pretty sure there's at least a few wet spots- the middle window on the port side has some tannin staining underneath it. But it feels solid, no soft spots.

I want to redo the wood before I put her in the water. I've got the interior wood off the boat more or less, and I'm going to go over that with the restor-a-finish. I want to use Cetol on the exterior, but I haven't taken that off yet- is it okay to leave it off overwinter? When i go to reinstall it, should I overdrill/epoxy/redrill the holes where it beds?

What should I use to clean up the tiller handle?

And then there's the important bits. The boat still has wire to rope halyards, and aluminum spreader brackets. How important is it to replace the halyards right away? They look to be in pretty good shape- PO says they're only 3-4 years old, and the mast never went up this year.

Obviously I need to change the spreader brackets, because I'd rather the mast stayed in one piece. How awful of an idea would it be to have them made instead of buying them? I know a lot of people in the tool and die industry, and I'm sure I could get them made for a case of beer and a trip out on the boat (and as a grad student, thats a much more attractive option!)

Thanks!

79 C25 #1433 SR/FK - 'Carina' - Destroyed by Sandy
84 C25 #3817 TR/SK
Cleveland, OH

Edited by - vipermagic on 12/08/2011 07:13:50

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 07:51:38

Welcome Glenn! Either you have a fair amount of experience, or you've been exploring here for a while, or both. So I guess we don't have to do our commercial for Catalina Direct.

Regarding spreader brackets, I don't know about your metalworking friends, but it seems to me that CD's $140 package of OEM stainless brackets, compression tubes, all other hardware, and installation instructions (the tubes are tricky) for $140 is a pretty good buy. These are the parts that became the factory originals in the early 80s--I'm not sure how you would accurately reproduce them without seeing them. Maybe your friends can come up with something as good using the aluminum as a pattern, but......

The wire-rope halyards are only a problem when they become a problem. They tend to jump the mast-head sheaves more easily, and wear the sheaves more quickly. Going all-rope will require wider sheaves--I found that mine were sun-damaged anyway, when I decided to replace my halyards in order to lead them back to the cockpit (a nice upgrade).

I'll leave some other questions to the others--gotta go.

Again, congratulations, and welcome to a great community!

Edited by - on

Kim Luckner
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 08:23:13

Even if the spreader brackets fail the lower shrouds and fore and aft stays would provide adequate support to the mast until you could lower the sails. That said your friends in the industry can magniflux your brackets for cracks, assuming cracks are not readily visible. It's not a bad thing to replace but not the imperative you suggest. Aluminum castings are not a bad thing they just have less elasticity, take a look at your outboard. I'm sure you'll find many ways to "invest" time and money in your new boat! Properly rigged I don't see significant loads imparted to these brackets. Primarily function is to position the spreader tubes "perpendicular" to the mast and allow the compression loads from the shrouds to be balanced.

I too removed all of the exterior teak with the boat covered, sanded to bare wood and applied 10 coats of Cetol. I also try and keep a cover on during the summer otherwise in 2 years you're back at it. Treat the tiller just like the other exterior wood. Combination of common orbital pad sander and flap sander will limit the amount of hand sanding.

Good Luck with your new boat!

Just noticed our hull numbers are consecutive!

Edited by - Kim Luckner on 12/08/2011 08:42:12

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 09:52:26

I'm probably not qualified to debate Kim's point on spreader brackets, but here's what Catalina Direct says:

"The original cast aluminum spreader brackets will, on occasion, fail catastrophically. This can lead to the loss of the entire rig. There is typically no warning that failure is eminent. They don't bend or crack then break. They just break."

This is probably why Catalina switched on several models--specifically including the C-22. I don't know the odds...

Edited by - on

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 10:31:28

I have a new spreader bracket kit I'm willing to sell. Has all the parts, no instructions (but it's not rocket science). If you're interested make an offer... If nothing else maybe these pics will help you if you try to make your own.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 11:34:47

I would deal with the wood first, then the spreader brackets. Make Ryan L an offer. Unless the masthead sheaves are showing damage or the wire halyards have meathooks, I wouldn't worry about converting the halyards.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 12:02:07

Hi Craig and welcome . . .

It appears that you retrieved your new-to-you boat from Lake Arthur, Moraine State Park. We pulled and decommissioned our boat at the very same place at the end of October.

You've probably already recogized the treasure trove of information that resides here - and the great bunch of people that continue to contribute, year-after-year.

Another example of six degrees of separation I suppose. I am originally from the suburbs of Cleveland, spent much time visiting relatives in Erie, moved to the 'burgh in '78 - sailing Lake Arthur since the early 90s.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 12:31:29

I can't add a whole lot, other than to say CONGRATULATIONS and welcome!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 12:41:35

Hi Craig and welcome. As you can see in my signature block, I live in one of the western 'burbs of Cleveland. I have a C250 so my knowledge of the technical details of the C25 is limited to what I've learned here along with a little from dockmates at my marina. But, if I can be of help, let me know. You can send me an e-mail through this forum and I'll send you my phone number.

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned a survey here yet. If you plan to store the boat in a marina, they will require it to be insured. Insurance companies my require it to be professionally surveyed. The benefit to you will be the itemized list of issues that the surveyor will find. It will be a list arranged in order of importance. That is, things that effect seaworthiness first and other stuff following. A survey will cost around $400-$500 but, it's something to think about.

Edited by - on

Kim Luckner
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 13:27:52

Regarding the survey not a bad idea but I don't think it's required for insurance. I know I didn't have to provide a survey for Progressive, the agent said how much is it worth and I estimated based on purchase price and planned near term upgrades. $180 per year for a $4k insured value. By the way I've been very impressed with Progressive.

Edited by - on

vipermagic
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 15:36:23

Stinkpotter: Thanks! I'm relatively inexperienced sailor. I've been racing on a J24 for a few years now, but this is *my* first boat. I've read through an enormous amount of these forums and the tech tips (I was unemployed for a spell haha!) That quote from Catalina Direct was the exact reason I'm so paranoid about the spreaders. Catastrophic failure with no warning sounds like a great thing to make me worry instead of having fun out on the lake!

OJ: I did indeed! I'm originally from Erie, and now at Case in Cleveland for graduate school. You may have even seen my boat there- she was on a mooring ball for a few years, and this past year sat in the yard on the trailer. Apparently having a fixed keel boat on Lake Arthur isn't all that easy. It was no treat getting it out of there, that's for sure!

John: Thanks! I'll be in touch for sure. I still haven't found a marina in Cleveland. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears! The boat is already insured, I got $500k liability from my auto/renter's insurance company, and in the spring I've got a quote from BoatUS for another $500k liability, plus towing and first party coverage, no survey necessary. My quote was very similar to Kim's.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2011 : 16:32:13

Since you're at Case, I'm gonna guess you live near the campus. That makes the East 55th marina most cenvenient to the school but getting a slip there is by lottery. [url="http://www.whiskeyislandmarina.com/"]Whiskey Island Marina[/url] is close to downtown but on the west side. I've thought of moving my boat there but, they're more expensive than where I am now.

There are a number of places between Erie and Cleveland.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9087 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2011 : 10:42:58

Yup--I thought about suggesting a survey, but between your apparent knowledge and having a friend with a moisture meter, it sounded like you were prepared to adequately assess the boat. (Of course, using and interpreting the moisture meter on cored decks and solid hulls is a skill in and of itself.) I generally suggest a survey for prospective buyers, to help decide whether to walk away or negotiate around a significant issue. Might as well benefit from it if you need to have it for insurance (as I and a few others here have). I attended with a clipboard, and learned a lot in the process.

I empathize with your concern over "catastrophic failures"... Soon after buying my C-25, I replaced my (presumably) 15-year-old standing rigging, just to feel good about it. (My vintage came with the SS sockets.) By the way, I will assert that under a 15+ knot breeze pounding through some big waves (which is when it will happen), the loss of the windward spreader will very likely cause a "catastrophic failure"--either the mast will break at the spreaders (where the lower shrouds attach), or the sheet-metal tabernacle (mast step) will give, letting go of the base of the mast (very bad!), or the lower shroud attachments will break loose. I've seen some of these things happen--"Pop-Bang-BOOM!!"--there's no time to luff the sails. You just don't want it to happen on your boat.

One could say CD is selling the remedy, and therefore overstating the ailment... I believe they're straight folks, they're sailors, they know our boats (and other Catalinas) better than most of us do ("thousands served"), and they probably don't make enough on spreader sockets to buy the whole staff a round of beers at the Christmas party. The only "rocket science" to the project is positioning the compression tube(s) inside the mast for the bolt(s) to go through. (Current kits apparently have two tubes.) I suspect that can be "interesting."

Anyway, the first thing I want to feel on a sailboat is safe, and I've always looked at that big stick held up by some wires as the trickiest part. The spreaders are a critical component, and broken spreaders are often the cause of dismastings.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2011 : 16:48:25

Be very careful when replacing spreader brackets. Push a long bolt or screwdriver in as you pullout the original bolt. If you lose the compression post in the mast, you will have to elevate it enough for the post to fall to the bottom, then rig up a "reaching tool" using something like 1/2" pvc pipe with a notch in the end to hold the post while you push it back up the mast to the holes in the side of the mast, and a second person will need to guide you while you twist and turn the PVC to position the tube so your helper can snag it with the long bolt or screwdriver, then hold it in position while the original or replacement bolt is pushed through installing the new brackets.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2011 : 19:10:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Be very careful... [if] you lose the compression post in the mast, you will have to elevate it enough for the post to fall to the bottom, then rig up a "reaching tool" using something like 1/2" pvc pipe with a notch in the end to hold the post while you...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

VERY good advice, though I think you forgot to add "...not that I've had this happen to me or anything...". LOL

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2011 : 16:45:48

Actually, I'm lucky that it hasn't happened to me, yet! A few weeks ago, I was helping a new guy in our C-22 fleet who had driven to Florida to pick up a C-22 Sport. Somewhere in the process of putting the rigging together, before I got there, he had to do some repair to the spreaders and pulled the bolt. He was unaware of the compression post or what it was for, or that it had slipped out of position. We got the mast up and this tube was laying on the deck. When he told me it had slid down the mast earlier and came out the bottom, I realized what it was. I told him we'd have to take the mast back down and figure out a way to reinstall the compression post, and that he might want to call Catalina. He, or someone else, came up with the pvc pipe idea. I can't claim it.
The idea is to cut a notch in the end of the pvc to hold the compression tube, secure it lightly with tape so it will release, push the pvc up the mast, and work the compression tube into position. I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to do that.

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