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WindyLegacy
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/17/2012 : 11:43:56

I'm about to embark on a 1700+ mile road trip with the boat and trailer in tow. Unfortunately, I don't have the boat close to me, so wondering if anyone can help. I'm looking to see what typically comes standard for wheels/tires on the C25 trailers?

I'll have to ask my family if they can measure out the wheels and provide specs, but would love to have everything ready prior to making the trip to pick it up and then bring it home. The wheels/tires have been sitting for about 4 years now and although have good tread, I'm not sure if I want to trust their reliability on such a long trip, so thinking about replacing the tires and then buying an additional wheel/tire for a spare. Thoughts?

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 12:08:13

During our "living on board full time and going south" year-long around the continent trip we used the following equipment. Hope this is of use to you...

"Our C250 WB was trailered over 25,000km or 17,000 miles without any flats or tire problems during the last 11 months. At every stop we did check the boat, the trailer wheel bearings and tires and hitch just in case. Storing the boat for longer periods we make sure that we block the trailer with no load on the tires and covers blocking sun radiation. Our tires are Steel belted radials Custom A/S P215/75R14 M+S Max load 755 kg or 1664 lb. The tread is 4 ply with 2 ply polyester sides. The C250WB and trailer including all equipment (tender, 8hp outboard, food, tools, etc.) weighs 5600 lb. as per a road side truck scale along the way. Total max tire capacity is 4x1664 lb. is 6656 lb. leaving a margin of approx. 1056 lb. or 15% impact safety. The tread, during the trip, is worn to about half of the original".

Edited by - on

WindyLegacy
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 12:16:09

Thanks for the reply. The thing that has me a little concerned is that I've read no two trailers are consistent in the C25 range. So, mine may have 14's and another 15s depending on options when purchased or if someone upgraded. I also calculated the trailer and boat (with wing keel) to be over 7000lbs unloaded with gear. I'm curious what it weighs out at during the drive.

Did you just weigh at a highway truck scale for free? What's the process there?

Also, your Ram 2500 is the exact same setup (and color) of my tow rig. Good choice. How did it work for you during the trip?

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 12:52:06

The '05 Ram one ton 4x4 diesel pulled the boat effortlessly even in mountainous terrain. The heavy springs and stiffness of the one ton kept the trailer from swaying even at higher speeds, truck passing or crosswinds. The trailer hitch was directly connected to the truck and the trailer surge brakes were adequate. Our C250 WB was trailered over 25,000km or 17,000 miles without any flats or tire problems during the last 11 months. At every stop we did check the boat, the trailer wheel bearings and tires and hitch just in case. Storing the boat for longer periods we make sure that we block the trailer with no load on the tires and covers blocking sun radiation. Our tires are Steel belted radials Custom A/S P215/75R14 M+S Max load 755 kg or 1664 lb. The tread is 4 ply with 2 ply polyester sides. The C250WB and trailer including all equipment (tender, 8hp outboard, food, tools, etc.) weighs 5600 lb. as per a road side truck scale along the way. Total max tire capacity is 4x1664 lb. is 6656 lb. leaving a margin of approx. 1056 lb. or 15% impact safety. The tread, during the trip, is worn to about half of the original.

Edited by - zeil on 02/18/2012 10:28:02

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2012 : 14:26:56

Trailers for C25's do indeed have different size tires, both 14's and 15's. My C-22 trailer has 13" tires while several of my friends' newer trailers have 14" tires. My C25 trailer, a TrailRite from the late 70's, has 14" tires. To complicate matters, tires in the same size can have different weight ratings, based on construction, whether bias-ply or radial. Axle rating can play a role, too. Axles rated at 3,500 lbs. can accomodate 14" or 15" tires. Axles rated at 5,200 lbs. will most likely carry 15" tires and the rims will be 6-lug instead of 5-lug.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2012 : 05:08:23

Is there any way you can have someone get the tire information from the current tires for you? I can tell you from experience that tires that have sat for 4 years will give you problems Also, from experience, stay away from ST tires made in China, especially Carlisle. If you have 15 inch you can find load range D tires that will serve you well. Keep them at max cold pressure.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2012 : 10:45:54

I would disagree with the Carlisle warning. Off brand chinese tires can be good or bad, mostly bad, but Carlisle has been building quality ST and other specialty tire here and abroad for decades and have a reputation to maintain. Tires can only be sampled for meeting design and material standards and a remote chinese plant can get away with skimping for a bit so you can always get a bad tire on occasion due to that or just a manufacturing defect, but Carlisle will stand behind the products from any of their plants. We all have a right to our own opinions, and disagreement is not personal.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2012 : 17:21:46

FWIW, when we ordered our new C25 trailer from Trail-Rite in 2009 - it came with Goodyear trailer tires - radial.

Goodyear Trailer Marathon Radial

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2012 : 05:33:16

Dave5041

The reason I refer to Carlisle tires specifically is because I had three out of four tires go bad on a new travel trailer in less than two years. I was running a tire pressure monitoring system so I know there was not a tire pressure problem. Several thousand dollars of damage was done to the trailer in the three events. Also, I learned from other campers that I was not the only one with a problem with Carlisle ST tires.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2012 : 09:57:55

Interesting. I have had Carlisle tires on two consecutive boat trailers without a problem. Pearl road on Carlisle tires for years and now has a pair of new Carlisle's and a pair of Goodyears. I replaced two of the very old (to old) Carlisle's after a blowout of one on the way to Fl. and Goodyear was all that was available to replace the other two before my 800 mile tow home. It appeared that somebody caught one of my other branded tires with his trailer in a storage yard, ripping a straight 8" gash, and then parked someplace else. I then bought a pair of Carlisle's and moved the other tire to the spare so I would have matched tires on each axle. I am not questioning your experience, but anecdotal reports, good or bad, are not always reliable. I am inclined to believe that all of the major brands make decent tires, but you should stick with one if it makes you more comfortable.

edit: Most of our american brands are now owned by japanese companies, and most of our tires are made in China.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 02/19/2012 10:01:45

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2012 : 15:41:20

Zeil, i was able to read your post before it was edited/shortened. You wrote a great report; very detailed with a lot of useful information. thanks for sharing.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2012 : 17:03:51

Have heard similiar stories about Michelins (not trailer tires.) Some people have good success - some not. May depend the individual plant that produces them . . .

Edited by - on

WindyLegacy
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2012 : 17:09:30

I'm having a neighbor come take a look at the tires to get the right size. At the minimum, I'm putting 4 new tires on the existing wheels and then ordering a full wheel/tire combo as a spare. 1800 miles, you never know.

Re: the tire brand. It may be bad batch numbers for those experiencing issues with a particular tire brand. I generally stick with well known tire manufacturers that have a solid reputation, but even those have issues from time to time.

I read somewhere that Load E is what I need, but if I read through Load D tires, they should have more than enough margin for safety since their load rating is 2540 per tire = 10,160lbs.

I'll likely use the local Big-O tire to get the tires mounted locally, however anyone have any recommendations on the spare wheel/tire? I was thinking etrailer.com

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2012 : 19:04:21

Be sure they clean the wheel lip thoroughly before mounting new tires. An unexplained, very slow leak is irritating.

Edited by - on

WindyLegacy
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2012 : 21:06:23

Thanks for the tip.

I'm getting my road trip essentials in place even a month ahead of the trip.

--ordering/coordinating new tires and a spare
--just picked up a nice weight distribution hitch
--servicing the truck in another couple weeks
--getting my packing list going (tie-downs, tarps, bottle jack, floor jack, tool kit, trailer hitch lock (if i have to unhook and her in an emergency), etc).

Any tips from those that have traveled long distances pulling heavy with your Catalina?

Edited by - on

DavidCrosby
Navigator

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USA
240 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2012 : 13:10:18

I would like to offer mt two cents:

Trailer tires are a fooler. They look good, but rot away from lack of use. I highly suggest checking things out closely before embarking on a long trip.

I bought my 2002, C250 in 2010. I had a concern about dry rot of the tires, so checked that closely. They looked good and looked to be properly inflated. I did not physically check the air pressure, because where the boat was, I had no way to fill the tires until a later point anyhow. I also knew that I had brake problems. It was my intention to get the boat off of the Air Force base it was on and get to the nearest boat or RV place so I could get the brakes fixed (also buy a spare tire) before heading off cross country.

I did not make it 10 miles down the road, before I had a truck driver flagging me about tire trouble. I pulled over along side a very busy freeway in Washington DC to discover that the back right tire was deflating rapidly (the valve stem was hanging by a thread). A quick check of the other valve stems indicated they were all bad.

This becomes a very, very long story. In short, tire repair service when desperate is outrageous. I could have bought four top of the line, brand new tires for what I paid to solve my valve stem problems.

I also quickly discovered that my 1/2 ton E150 was not up to the task. While I could pull the boat without much trouble, semi trucks were blowing the rig all over the place. The only way I could manage the swaying was to keep my speed below 50 mph.

I found an RV place to leave the boat for one week. I had the brakes overhauled and a spare tire ordered. I drove my E150 back home without the boat and returned the following weekend with my brother's F250. What a difference that big truck made.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2012 : 15:15:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by WindyLegacy
 Thanks for the tip.

I'm getting my road trip essentials in place even a month ahead of the trip.

--ordering/coordinating new tires and a spare
--just picked up a nice weight distribution hitch--servicing the truck in another couple weeks
--getting my packing list going (tie-downs, tarps, bottle jack, floor jack, tool kit, trailer hitch lock (if i have to unhook and her in an emergency), etc).

Any tips from those that have traveled long distances pulling heavy with your Catalina?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Todd, if your trailer is properly balanced (tongue weight is 7-10% of trailer weight,) a WDH is not necessary.

Edited by - OJ on 02/20/2012 15:17:40

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2012 : 09:03:35

Regarding truck scales, the ones at truck stops, typically called Cat Scales, charge $8-9 in our area, and $1 more for a re-weigh if done within 24 hours.
I've had good results with Loadstar K550 trailer tires.

Edited by - on

WindyLegacy
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2012 : 20:56:08

So I found out that the trailer has old 215/75-14 tires and will need to be replaced.

Anyone know if it's been done successfully to convert all 4 to 15" wheels and tires? I ask because the highest oaf tire I've found in the 14" size is load c, which puts the max load a little over 7000 pounds.

Unless I'm off, the load c tires don't give a ton of weight clearance since its my understanding that the c25 is bout 6000 unloaded nd with trailer is right around 7000

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2012 : 21:12:03

205/75-14 tires have a rating of 1,760 lbs each, or 7040 lbs for four. And 215/75-14 tires have a rating of 1,870 lbs or 7,480 for four.
In order to exceed 1,820 lbs per tire in 15" you will need to go up to 225/75-15's (2,040 lbs in 5-lug or 2,540 lbs in 6-lug.
The 205/75-15's are rated at 1,820, same as the 215/75-14's.
So, be careful which 15's you buy.

Edited by - on

WindyLegacy
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2012 : 21:40:21

Understood. Digging a little deeper I've found he kumho 857 with a old rating D, which means 2271 x 4. Or over 10k lbs.

The problem here is they only go to 205/75-14' which isn't a big deal. The other problem is they are rode expensive for about $500 for all 4 from tirerack.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 09:16:48

Any way you look at it, you are going to be spending around $500 to replace all 4 tires. If you go online to buy, you might as well buy them alreadt mounted unless you have a good friend locally who will mount them for you. Typically, a mounted tire is only about $15-20 more than a tire alone when bought online, so when you add local mounting charges to the tire-alone purchase price, you are close to the mounted price.
Also, add online shipping charges to the tire price when comparing to a local price. shipping can easily be $25 per tire due to the weight.
I've ordered from these guys:
http://www.trailertires.com/

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/24/2012 09:17:54

WindyLegacy
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 10:25:20

David, makes sense.

Anyone have an idea what the typical bolt pattern is on these trailers is?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 10:35:22

My guess is most trailers use 5 lug on 4 1/2, and I believe that means 4 1/2" from the center of the axle to the center of the lug nut. I was told last week by a guy at a trailer retail shop that if you have reverse lug nuts, i.e. the nut and threaded post are one piece that screws into a hole on the hub, then it is almost certainly 4 1/2.
If you plan to buy mounted tires, be certain of your bolt pattern before you order. Return freight could get expensive. I bought mounted tires because the original rims were badly rusted.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 11:57:49

Something else to consider if you go from 14" to 15" tires is the clearance of the fender. It may look like you have lots of clearance but the fender will have to clear the larger diameter tire when fully compressed. Its a quick way to cut up a new tire.

Edited by - islander on 02/24/2012 11:58:50

WindyLegacy
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2012 : 14:13:29

This is what prelim measurements show:

8"deep wheels
center hole 3" opening
5 lug
lug to opposing lug is 4 1/4". This was taken with the wheel on the trailer, so I'm thinking maybe this is actually 4 1/2"

Also, the studs are male and insert into the female hub.

Edited by - on

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