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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Associate just got a Catalina 27

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/05/2012 : 05:50:22

So... the guy I work with, share an office, has had to listen to me constantly go on about how wonderful the sailing is and I picked out a boat for him and he bought it! Now I get a new/old friend on the Lake to visit, and a chance to experience the 27 first hand. Deep Boat...

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2396619&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=snugharborboats&&ywo=snugharborboats&

Offered them less than they were asking and they took it..

I'd rather have a 25 but it is a hoot to be able to see one up close..

Another great Catalina.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 06:33:09

nice looking boat and great price!

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
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1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 06:52:19

C27's are really nice. That's what I was shopping for when I bought my C25, but couldn't get one in my price range. I found a couple that were close or would stretch me a little, but shipping them to me blew the costs out.

That looks like a really nice one, well equipped.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 07:05:09

Yepper.. nothing wrong with a 27 but I gotta tell ya .. I love the way the 25 pop top keeps you out into everything when you go below.

Going down into the 27 feels like a hole, and much more like a camper feeling... but... I'm sure the 250 people say the same thing about the 25..

It really is interesting how different designs feel SO different...

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 08:07:55

Nice looking boat and great price. Someone's going to have a lot of fun with that one.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 08:41:37

Looks like it has a dead engine inside.

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PCP777
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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 08:55:58

Those are great boats and that's an awesome price for a good one. Just this past weekend I was the helmsman for Joint Venture, a C-27 SR. One thing your friend should consider is reducing the size of the table, that will enable him to mount a nice size flat screen on the starboard side bulk head. Keelan has a nice LED LCD 22 inch on his which is awesome.

Some of you guys know that I've been racing on this boat for about three seasons, and we've won plenty of trophies in B-Fleet Cruising Class. I'm exhausted this morning as we just finished racing in the Texas Independence Regatta, we had a jib sheet blow on race two so we didn't place in the top 3, took to long to bend on a new one. Sunday we had a 4.5 hour long race, it was in the 70's and perfect. I like the C-27 because you can stand up in it. It really is a much bigger boat than the C-25. As it was we were the smallest boat along with another C-27 TR in a fleet full of various Catalina's, including a 1979 38.

Some pics from the weekend..

Look at how that 38 dwarfs the 27, little bit of perspective but that 38 is huge. Sexy round hull and a tiny transom like an old IOR boat.

Edited by - PCP777 on 03/05/2012 08:58:55

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 10:29:15

Ray is he going to keep it on Lanier?

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 10:45:02

Yepper.. just 2 marina's up from me ... Sunrise Cove Marina. A really nice setup they have up there.. New.. single slips, power, lighted docks, and well protected.

Of course we have the nice outdoor Grill and Marina with Beer!

Ummmm... Beer...

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 11:27:57

27's are nice boats. Tiller on a friends is so light .vs. or heavy helm. and VERY responsive as well. He let me steer for a bit, and I always overtacked. There are a couple of 27's in our area, my friend has a 27 with an atomic 4, another has an OB mounted inboard, with a big hole in the transom. Haven't noticed
a strictly OB before.

The wife likes the headroom underneath, though our first upgrade will move to a 30 instead.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 12:05:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 ...Tiller on a friends is so light .vs. our heavy helm...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Michael: If that's constant weather helm, have you tried tipping the mast back a little? If it's excess effort making turns, a balanced rudder is the solution.

Back to the C-27... Nice boat. The primary disadvantage compared to the C-25 is transportability--I believe it's closer to 9' than the 8'6" listed in this ad, and over 3,000 lbs. heavier.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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1225 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 12:44:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 << Looks like it has a dead engine inside. >>

internal controls on an outboard..

Nice shots Powers! So cool to see a 25 and 27 right next to each other ..talk about topical..

We had a great weekend sailing also.. and a fun night when the storms blew through.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What's funny is I pulled into the host marina first in my 25. The crew of the C-27 immediately shouted, "Is that a 25 or a 27?" Clearly they were waiting to see the other 27. I said "No this is my 25, but I'll be racing on that C-27 that's coming in." pointing to Joint venture, who's mast appeared above the breakwater at that moment. Their response "Ah, our arch nemesis."

Turned out they weren't all talk and sailed a very nice race, beating us soundly on the first race. On the second race we had a great start and were putting it to them until we had the equipment failure and a DNF. Finally, yesterday in the 3rd and final race we beat them pretty bad. At one point it was very even with the C-38, a C-30TR and the C-27TR as well as us all rounding the leeward mark at the same time on the first rounding. We beat the C-30TR and the C-27TR on the next windward mark and ended up correcting over the C-30TR on that race. It's always a good feeling being ahead of boats that have to give you time. It was a good time but my muscles ache today from fighting that helm as the second and third races were pretty windy.

Coming back to the TR VS SR debate, in light wind they have a distinct advantage and anything over 20 knots gives the SR an advantage. Funny also to notice that C-25 is the only TR of the three that doesn't have a bow sprit.

Edited by - PCP777 on 03/05/2012 12:49:41

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 12:47:24

<< a balanced rudder is the solution. >>

My solution was a topping lift, and adjusting it properly. Balancing the boat by balancing the sails properly.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 16:25:53

To reduce excessive weather helm, readjust the mast stays so that the mast leans a little more forward, not aft. By doing so, you can make the weather helm as light as you'd like, but you should always have a slight weather helm. You don't need a balanced rudder on a C25 to have a light weather helm. Just tune the rig properly. Establishing a light weather helm is all about establishing the correct relationship between the center of effort (CE) of the sails and the center of lateral resistance (CLR) of the keel.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/05/2012 17:16:26

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 16:33:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 To reduce excessive weather helm, readjust the mast stays so that the mast leans a little more forward, not aft. By doing so, you can make the weather helm as light as you'd like, but you should always have a slight weather helm. You don't need a balanced rudder on a C25 to have a light weather helm. Just tune the rig properly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Will doing this degrade your pointing ability?

Joint Venture only has a weather helm issue when overpowered. We always hammer the aft stay when pointing and ease it going down wind.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 17:31:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 To reduce excessive weather helm, readjust the mast stays so that the mast leans a little more forward, not aft. By doing so, you can make the weather helm as light as you'd like, but you should always have a slight weather helm. You don't need a balanced rudder on a C25 to have a light weather helm. Just tune the rig properly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Will doing this degrade your pointing ability?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> No. It will improve your pointing ability. Generally, anything that will increase your boat speed will improve pointing ability. Weather helm creates drag. Reducing it reduces drag and consequently increases speed.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Joint Venture only has a weather helm issue when overpowered. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> That suggests that the rig is probably reasonably well tuned, but I would tip the rig a little forward and aft to try to find the optimal adjustment.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> We always hammer the aft stay when pointing and ease it going down wind. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> That's the way I use an adjustable backstay, too, but I also used it on my C25 to keep the boat on it's feet in gusts. I played the backstay a lot in gusty winds. I only dumped the mainsheet in the very strongest gusts.

I should add that I don't harden the backstay in light air. I keep the sail trim a tad full in light air, to keep the sails driving. At about 2 1/2 - 3 kts boat speed, I start gradually trimming the fullness out of the sails.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/05/2012 18:03:12

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2012 : 20:03:27

My point about the balanced rudder was for turning effort--the harder you turn with an unbalanced rudder, the harder you have to pull (or push). A balanced rudder is sorta like power steering in turns. It will mask weather helm somewhat by reducing the pull.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 06:06:48

I found I had the leech closed, and this was producing excessive pressure aft of the mast turning the boat up. Tightened the topping lift, opening the leech, and I could balance the sails to the point she will sail herself, on occasion.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 08:24:36

The LWL on a C27 is actually shorter(21'09") than the C25(22'2"). Isn't that where speed calculations are based?

Edited by - John Russell on 03/06/2012 08:26:26

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 09:34:33

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 10:51:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 The LWL on a C27 is actually shorter(21'09") than the C25(22'2"). Isn't that where speed calculations are based?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> LWL is only one element that contributes to predicting the speed capability of a displacement boat. PHRF takes into account many added elements, such as type of prop and number of blades, shape of keel and rudder, and many other factors, but even PHRF is imperfect. I have long believed the C25 should rate faster than the C27, partly because of it's extra waterline length, and also because it is much lighter than the C27, and also because my TR/FK C25 used to beat C27s consistently. Nevertheless, I have seen some C27s racing on the Chesapeake Bay that are regularly beating boats to the finish line that are rated much, much faster. I haven't been inside one, but have heard one reason the Ches. Bay C27s are so fast is because the racers strip all the excess weight out of them.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 11:35:30

Hey.. thanks for the info... and his is pretty loaded up so looks like I'll have the faster boat..

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PCP777
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Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 13:00:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 Hey.. thanks for the info... and his is pretty loaded up so looks like I'll have the faster boat..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You might be surprised, a well sailed C-27 is fast, and my buddies C-27 is as loaded up as they get. Flat Screen, Fridge, A/C etc. Typically he walks away from me.

He just got new sails and I have a new main now, so we shall see how it goes this year but having been at the helm of his boat for a season and a half I'm pretty well versed on both boats.

Edited by - PCP777 on 03/06/2012 13:02:10

pastmember
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Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 13:03:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 There are a couple of 27's in our area, my friend has a 27 with an atomic 4, another has an OB mounted inboard, with a big hole in the transom. Haven't noticed
a strictly OB before.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That was my point, I am no expert but I thought OB 27s had the cutout in their transom, and if a boat has an OB with no cut out then there probably is a dead inboard inside.

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 13:04:32

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redeye
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Response Posted - 03/06/2012 : 13:59:25

Well... anyhooo.. That is interesting.. his boat apparently never had an inboard.

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