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Drjohn71a
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:04:10

Hi guys and gals,

'Took me forever, but finally got logged in. I just bought hull #5454m a 1986 Wing Keel Catalina 25, which is berthed on Oologah Lake, Claremore, Oklahoma, just North of Tulsa. That is 200 miles from my home, so I only have brief windows to measure, fix, restore and figure out things. At this point, I am guessing it's a Tall Rig since there was an extra stay which I believe is the old forestay, and it measures about 32 feet.

The PO cut all the wires while redoing the system, then got injured last Fall and has not been able to get things back like they were. As such, one of my first tasks is to identify all the old wires, which are all now too short to reach the battery or bus, and reorganize the bird's nest. Any advice on this would be a help. Also planning to add the second battery, I guess on the Port side (I have the Traditional Interior). I already bought a 29 series, but see now that you all seem to prefer putting two series 24 batteries into the Starboard compartment.

The mast wiring has the old plastic hub which is broken and has about 6 inches of thick tape wrapped around it. Since I want to have all the proper tools down there when I get into it, I am wondering if those wire connections to the mast lights are soldered to the connector fitting? I ordered a replacement connector fitting, but just the plastic for now since I may not have to reset the deck receptacle. In the long run, I'll go for Chrome/Stainless.

I have read much of your posting which has been very helpful!! I've had boats in the past with which you are just stuck looking at catalogs and trying to figure out how they were wired, strung, whatever and exactly what parts are needed. Thanks so much for all the posted info!

As to the teak, it is dry, but solid, and I am leaning toward Cetol Marine since I don't mind the darker color and want to minimize maintenance. I used Sikkens Cetol on a large porch ceiling remodel, over the car siding, about 15 years ago and it still looks great. I think they said it breathes and that reduces bubbling. Also, any recoats do not need a lot of preparation and sanding. I love the looks of the golden honey teak shade, but I have a limited time on the lake and prefer to get on the water ASAP. What would happen if a guy just did minimal sanding (no old varnish in place) and then applied the Cetol Marine to the rough wood?

Thanks again for all the info, John

John

John M
Sandpiper II
1986 Catalina 25, TR WK
Blowin' in the Wind
Wichita,KS. Claremore,OK

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:21:14

John, I already signed up for the Association and am very glad to see the organization in place. I mis-remembered that forestay measurement, it is about 32 foot, 10 inches which, in one of your tech pages, indicates a tall rig. I am reluctant to take the mast down right now since the boat is in the water and needing many small fixes before I can cast off safely. I was thinking of measuring the mainsail luff? But heard that some ppl put a short main on the tall rig for more head room... I am now thinking the width of the tabernacle , 3 3/8 inches for TR, might be the best, quickest measurement. I could send a long metal measuring tap aloft with the halyard, but am not certain how high that would go.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:22:48

John, when you are down there post up some pics.

In working on Iris, I found that it was difficult to distinguish one circuit from the next when it came to accessories added to teh boat. To that end, I added a second distribution panel and wired all the original circuits to one panel, and all accessories to the other.

I have been fortunate in that none of the original circuits have caused me any headaches. I wish I could say the same about the accessories.

There is a diagram in the manuals section of the site that outlines what colour of wires lead to which circuit. When you are cramped in teh dumpster though, it is hard to refer to the website (or even a printout) to that end, were I you, I would go ahead and put terminals on the wires you have and lead them to switches, then just move the wires around until the labnels line up with teh switch. I believe I just threw away the chart I made when doing this last year.

The process as I went through it can be found here: http://littleboatiris.blogspot.com/2011/04/wires-teach-woodworking.html with final installation a few posts later. I am now in process to remove and replace the original Catalina circuit board mounted on the galley bulkhead. Blog Updates to follow as the parts arrive.

ETA - Deck connector outline is here: http://littleboatiris.blogspot.com/2011/04/you-light-up-my-life.html If you read forward from that post you will get from rewiring the mast at the deck to rewiring the circuit panel and installing a stereo.

Edited by - Prospector on 03/16/2012 08:30:07

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:33:06

The parts catalog lists the SR forestay as 29'10", and the TR as 31'10". Sounds like yours is tall.

Welcome to the community!

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:35:13

Prospector,

Thanks for the info and link... I had to crack up at the "flow" of your "fixing logic", leading to the Radio Faceplate! lol
Now if I can just find a 2 inch piece of wood for a faceplate...

I am going out to buy wires today, mainly red and black? 14 gauge for most, per the book, or should I use a 10 gauge for the common ground/positive?

John

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:36:07

Are the mast light wires soldered to the connectors?

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:59:22

Congrats and welcome aboard...you've found the right place for C25 owners.

The electrics on our boats are actually very simple.....some of the runs are fiddly but if you take your time and be careful, using the old wires as a messenger, you can pull new ones. I "think" alot of the wiring is 14 and 16 g. Just make sure to get marine grade pre-tinned....and use a soldering iron as much as possible.

I've had to do some wiring on mine...if you just look at it and think about it, explore the boat, you;ll see it's basic and you can draw your own wiring diagram specific to your boat.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 09:03:35

If you are talking about the deck connector, I seem to recall micro screws. I added dielectric lubricant/gel after I made up the connections.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 09:05:52

All crimp connectors, IIRC.

If you have the original power panel, you may find that the fuseholders fall apart. I have had 3 of them break. You can buy a cheap panel here (mine is on order): http://us.binnacle.com/Electrical-Circuit-panels/c58_196/p1317/FUSE-PANEL-6-GANG-ILLUMINATED-ROCKERS/product_info.html

They also stock blue sea panels if you want to go top shelf.

The replacement panel I put in next to the stereo was from someone parting out an older boat. I actually find it more robust than teh 2nd gen. panel on the bulkhead. And with that panel location I can flip the toggles with my toes from the cockpit. (Now there's a selling point.) That is actually a big plus when I am in traffic at dusk and need to turn on the steaming/deck lights.

I bought a variety of colours for the wire but didn't end up replacing any of the factory wiring. I know a lot of folks on here will advise that the factory wire should be replaced, but I took an "if it aint broke, don't fix it approach."

All factory circuits are working fine. Accessories are good, radio and dead fuse holders have me pulling hair.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 10:33:50

Welcome aboard! I'm in a similar situation - my boat is about 2 hours from me. For the teak, I removed a lot of it and brought it home to finish. However, I had trouble getting the companionway trim and the exterior grab rails off the boat. They seem to be bedded down VERY tight. I took a battery-powered sander with me to fix up the companionway trim, but didn't want to touch the grab rails because I don't want to sand those down too much - when I need them, I NEED them to be strong. My marina hasn't turned on the water yet, so I couldn't try this last weekend, but my intent for the grab rails is to use a teak cleaner and rinse that off thoroughly, then wait a week to let everything dry (with a cover over the rails). The following week, I'll add some Cetol Marine to the rails and see how that looks. If you're willing to wait a few weeks, I should be able to give you a report.

For the boards that I took home, what I found was that sanding the wood was the best way to get a nice, even color out of the Cetol. However, some of my boards were pretty weathered, so I to be realistic in how much I could take off. I sanded down so that most of the weathered wood was gone, then applied the Cetol. When first applied, the weathered wood looked pretty sad, and was a stark contrast to the nice, warm color of the sanded wood. After 2 or 3 coats, though, the weathered wood was much less apparent. I'm not sure if the solvents in the Cetol helped get some of the junk off the wood or if it was my imagination and willingness to over look the imperfections (since I have a long "to-do" list and only a few weeks until we launch), but either way, it didn't look bad. If you can remove the wood, I'd recommend doing so. If you can't, hopefully these suggestions will help.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 10:36:55

By the way, if I had my way, this is the tool I WOULD have used for the sanding: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100519984/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=battery sander&storeId=10051

I'm told that it is discontinued, though, so my local stores didn't have it and I needed something quickly, so I went with this instead:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100342146/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=ryobi sander&storeId=10051

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 10:37:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 Just make sure to get marine grade pre-tinned....and use a soldering iron as much as possible.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think this is worth losing sleep over, but there have been many debates over crimps vs. soldering. Its worth searching the site and coming to your own conclusion. I chose to crimp. other folks will have other thoughts on which way to go.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 16:49:52

You know best (or will quickly learn) what needs to get done to sail this season, but consider holding off on the brightwork until next fall/winter. The teak is not going to get any more grey, but when cleaned up, it will look great. Deal with the safety and keep-the-Admiral-happy issues first. If done right, your teak with Cetol will look good for years with relatively little additional work after the initial prep. If you opt to simply cover up the oxidized teak, you may have to live with that for long time as well. Many past discussions, but when you get around to it, consider removing as much teak as possible from the boat, use cleaner/brightner if need be, and sand as the last step before finishing. Teak is soft so don't get carried away with the sanding.

As to wiring....don't get too hung up on colors. Between changes at the factory, PO's, etc. wiring colors don't always match documentation and may change between the switch and its destination. A 9-volt battery and certainly an inexpensive multi-meter are indispensible for tracking wires. Look for a racheting crimping tool at Northern Tool or such. Like the brightwork, prioritize your electrical work to ensure safety first. A little time with your boat and you'll quickly feel out what should/can be done in what order. Last....there's a lot of experience on this forum and a lot of info in the archives as you've discovered...Would be good early on to start planning what you want for an electrical system and then move towards accomplishing that as time/budget allow. Search postings by Voyager...he (and others) have offered some good advice over past couple of years on wiring plans. And no, I would not recommend 14 gauge for the common ground...use 10 gauge as listed in the manual.

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2012 : 22:22:37

Thanks for all the tips. Right now, I'm anxious to get all the lights working so I can sail. Sounds smart to delay major teak work until other problems solved.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5379 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2012 : 18:42:12

Absolutely - get the bow red-green and stern nav lights, and your bow light - aka steaming light - repaired as you need it while motoring at night. Next is your anchor light, however you can hoist any bright light in a pinch.

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2012 : 19:26:43

my mast lights didn't work either, the mast wiring was all rusted (power did arrive at the deck plug though) on the first season i didn't do any night sailing, just motoring to a bay to anchor, with just the "sail lights" (no steam light) but the bay was near the marina and i would hang a portable anchor light... that did the job

i'll go with the others, spend your first season sailing and not repairing (just minimum safety gear)... it's worth it

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2012 : 19:31:12

There is always great advice here. My best was ejoy the cockpit!

Edited by - on

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 05:15:12

Welcome to the forum and the C25 family. Before spending to much time on the mast wiring, you might want to look into these:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=11045&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50523&subdeptNum=50580&classNum=50583

If you get your red/green and stern lights operating, use the portable steaming light as needed (hopefully not very often because that means the sails are up) and send the portable anchor light up the toping lift using the main halyard. I'm still using the anchor light because I just can't find the short in the mast for my anchor light, but finally got the steaming light working. Don't let the lack of factory steaming and anchor lights prevent you from sailing, there are alternatives.

As for electrical supplies, try GenuineDealz at
http://shop.genuinedealz.com/
Great prices on marine grade electrical supplies. I've had nothing but good luck and great customer service from them.

I will rewire the mast someday, but in the meantime I'm going sailing....

Good luck and let us know how your work progresses

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 08:12:56

Thanks for the advice. It does seem to make sense to progress in steps instead of starting a season long "makeover" session.
This really helps since I'm mainly trying to get together all the parts and tools for next weekend's visit to the slip. So now am going straight for the red/green bow light fix or maybe even a cheap clamp on, temp bow light I saw at Walmart the other day.

I think I'll order that West marine all around white lite, ESP since it could come in handy while working in tight spaces in the dark.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 15:00:38

Buy direct and save a couple of bucks or just go to Westmarine, pay a few dollars more, and get it immediately and without freight.

The third link is interesting but expensive.

http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=03300
http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=03310
http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=03320

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 15:57:08

Gary, Wichita, Kansas has almost no a ail able marine supplies or equipment, and my boat is around Claremore, OK, which has only a little more. Most stuff has to be ordered, even from a dealer. Some fishing and water skiing equipment around.

Edited by - on

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