Association Forum - Pop top prop?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Pop top prop?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/18/2012 : 14:08:42

I noticed in the Technical Manual I, a set of four plywood pieces for propping open the pop top in a position which will allow boom vang use while open. The photos are dark and the two shapes are so different that I can't see how they are used. I searched several combinations, but cannot find a thread to clarify their use.

Does anyone have clear photos and description of this?

John M
Sandpiper II
1986 Catalina 25, TR WK
Blowin' in the Wind
Wichita,KS. Claremore,OK

Edited by - Drjohn71a on 03/18/2012 17:10:43

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 19:30:16

I have never heard of this being done, and I would STRONGLY advise against sailing with the top up. Lets just say one big wave or puff could ruin your whole day.

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 20:15:38

The suggestion is in one of the tech manuals, but I am mainly interested in some alternative to the pop top curtain canvas. It would seem at least as safe to "camp" at anchor or slip as a canvas pop top. I think an eye to the weather, the sea, and amount of sail would make a C-25 as safe as an open day sailer.

I have heard of boats cruising with a window open, a hatch open, etc., in normal conditions. Around here, most boats are 12-25 feet with open bows and sterns. I can understand that some days coastal conditions may be more threatening, but have seen ppl cruising in Atlantic, Pacific, and Gulf of Mexico with open windows and hatches in normal conditions.

There are many manufacturers of boats with lift able hatches. How often has that resulted in sinking? There must be some safe venue for their use.

Edited by - Drjohn71a on 03/18/2012 20:26:21

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 20:31:28

Just curious why you're so interested in sailing with the pop top up?

Keep in mind that if for some reason it were to fall someone could easily loose their fingers or worse.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 20:32:20

Its not the sinking that is the issue. Its the force of an 80lb mass accellerating toward your head at 9.82 m/s^2. I've been there and done that at anchor, it ain't perty. You have to sit down for a minute and remember where you put your marbles before you get up to do it again.

Not every suggestion in the tech manuals is a good one. Read the bit on trailering for another belly laugh.

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 20:42:21

I, personally, am only interested in an alternative to the canvas curtain pop top cover. The ttech manual describes an alternative made of plywood, but the photos are too dark to see how these are deployed. It is only coincidental that that article states that the reason the guy made them was to allow boom vang use.

I can see how the crashing down of the pop top could be traumatic, but it would seem a person could construct some more reliable support which would allow the pop top to be raised at times. If the mast can be reliably supported, why not a pop top?

There are dozens of boats on our docks with their pop tops raised for cooking, eating, and entertaining.

Edited by - Drjohn71a on 03/18/2012 20:49:05

Lee Panza
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2012 : 21:00:12

John;

In looking at the diagram, it's evident that the two pieces slide into one another at their slots, cross-bracing each other. It looks like the piece with the arch cut out of the bottom would straddle the raised rim around the deck opening, and the taller rectangular piece would fit up under the rim of the pop-top hatch. Frankly, the aspect ratio (the width to height) doesn't seem awfully stable, although with four of them I guess the likelihood of knocking out all four at once is probably slim. A good bounce, however, either while underway or when some fool powerboater sends a large wake through the anchorage, could easily dislodge all four at once.

It shouldn't take too much thought to come up with something with a longer base that clips to (or screws to) the pop-top legs.

Even the sliding clip in the mast track, while convenient, is risky by itself. It would be a good idea to have a solid support, like perhaps an open truss, under each side.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 03:30:47

Yes at dock or at anchor having the top up is glorious. Your OP looked like you were consideing going sailing with it up. The sliding clip does a pretty good job of keeping the top up for either of those, but I wouldn't trust it under way.

All that aside, I have never seen a wooden support to hold up the top. I would expect the stowage space needed for one likely made it less popular than the canvas enclosure with mast track clip.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 03:55:28

Use of pop top and alternates to the canvas cover:

I would only use the pop top while at dock or at anchor. I really do not see any benefit using it when sailing and considered it a hindrance to sailing. If for some reason I need to gain access to the cabin top, well that would not be feasible with the pop top up. It also could come crashing down as others have mentioned. I could see the use of a dodger while sailing but I do not see the use of a pop top raised, even if it were safe, what the benefits are while sailing.

An alternate to the canvas cover and is very reasonable is to get a mosquito net that is sold in camping stores. My son had a mosquito net for use while he was in boy scouts and they sometimes slept in Lean-Tos and so the mosquito net proved beneficial. I have found that for overnighters, that mosquito net turned out coincidentally to be the perfect size for covering the cabin top with the pop top raised. The only thing I had to do was bunch up some of the excess netting adjacent to the pop top and the mast. I used a paper spring clip for that purpose. By bunching it up, it then held the netting snugly with the net fitting down on all sides including the companion way. Benefit was max venting.

Personally, I would think that an option utilizing plywood pieces to prop up the pop top would serve no useful purpose compared to the use of a canvas cover or a mosquito net. Plywood pieces would be another thing that would have to be stored. Most times when I would be using the pop top raised but not staying overnight, I would rather not use any option other than the mast screw lock. I just loosen the boom vang and raise and lock the pop top in the open position. It then provides adequate shade, yet max venting.

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/19/2012 03:56:56

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 05:20:55

I secure this line anytime I put the top top up. I've seen the furling knob come loose and the slide drops at anchor when I did not notice it, leaving the top unsecured.

Given the weight I would not recommend sailing with the pop top up.

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 05:35:59

I like to stay on the boat, and it is 200 miles from my house. Spring rains are here. I'd like to be able to stand in the cabin. The canvas curtains are a bit costly, which would be OK if they kept one dry while reducing the chance of accidental pop top drop. It seems to me that even some plywood panels (3-4) could be fastened around the opening in a manner that would preclude accidental pop top drop. I found some murky photos in the tech manual describing the use of plywood for this purpose and am asking if anyone has tried some type of pop top support which could keep the rain and cold out while providing a safer situation.

Thanks for all your replies and info. It seems you are correct in that design's likely involving some cross insertion scheme and not "pilot house" theme. I am still wanting to be able to safely use the pop top, and the current canvas curtains do not appear to contribute much stability to the lifted top.

Maybe I should try constructing two diagonal stainless steel struts which could be engaged under the canvas curtain. I do have the gas struts in place which seems to reduce the chance of dropping at low force application.

Edited by - Drjohn71a on 03/19/2012 05:42:57

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 05:48:08

I am still a little fuzzy on your goal, but I am trying to offer some support.

If the goal is enclosure, and you don't have budget for a canvas cover, try making one out of sunbrella or an old tent. It has been done before, at a reasonable cost. You can also keep an eye on the swap shop for deals as they come up. A few of us are looking at making a pattern to have covers made at a better price than CD.

If your goal is improved support of the pop-top, and you have access to a steel fab shop, Why not make a half-ring that would circle to front of the mast and clip on to the top on either side of the mast notch. I don't think you will get any more secure than that.

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 05:49:10

I think I have an answer, of sorts. I could put two machinist's clamps on the extended gas struts, similar to that opening stop on storm door gas spring cylinders.

My goal is an enclosed, stable, lifted pop top.

Edited by - Drjohn71a on 03/19/2012 05:53:34

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 07:23:28

I apologize for wasting your time on this. I see the points: Unsafe to sail or anchor with the pop top up, and always a risk of pop top drop.

For now, I'll just make a spacer to snap over the extended gas strut rod which will prevent it from reentering the reservoir and thusly prevent collapse of the top. I'll just have to put a tarp over for now. Thanks for the info, John

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 07:46:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Drjohn71a
 I apologize for wasting your time on this. I see the points: Unsafe to sail or anchor with the pop top up, and always a risk of pop top drop.

For now, I'll just make a spacer to snap over the extended gas strut rod which will prevent it from reentering the reservoir and thusly prevent collapse of the top. I'll just have to put a tarp over for now. Thanks for the info, John
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You haven't wasted our time at all! You have helped dozens of us remember not to sail with the top up!!

Post up some photos of your holder-upper thinggy. I'd love to see the arrangement you come up with.

Edited by - Prospector on 03/19/2012 07:46:23

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 09:45:59

Most posting threads provide valuable info and this one is no exception. While all our postings seem cold or non-supportive, it is more just a product of typing away than anything else. This posting thread is valuable because with the interface comes a better understanding of the issues - Sounds like you being 200 miles away and then when onboard you probably are making more use of the pop top raised than many others and so that's why laboring on a viable solution. In my case, which may be similar to many, I do not use the pop top often and when I do, I find that if I ensure the mast screw lock is securely engaged and tightened, it has never loosened up on me. But you probably have aneed for many more hours of it raised and therefore the opportunity of the mast screw lock loosening...risk increases.

Probably a secure manner to lock it open for sure would be to install a fitting forward/center on the pop top with a ring or fastener that allows you to utilize a plastic insulated cable with a dog snap or shackle. The benfit is that the cabling is flexible and easily compactly stored and once the fastener on the pop top is shackled, the pop top will be positively secured. As far as enclosing the sides...plywood would definitely work but I would give some thought if something like Sunbrella, etc could be used instead as was already suggested. I just do not like the idea of having to deal with solid construction matls (ie. plywood) and having something that cannot be compactly stored.

Edited by - on

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 10:02:20

Thanks. I found a West Marine in Tulsa, about 30 miles from the boat, and may run down there and get their boom tarp kit. It will allow me to work out of the sun and rain - AND IT'S FLEXIBLE! JJ

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 10:11:38

I use this method if I have to have it up and feel quite safe with it. I just don't like having the hatch up because of the boom vang and visual issues.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 I secure this line anytime I put the top top up. I've seen the furling knob come loose and the slide drops at anchor when I did not notice it, leaving the top unsecured.

Given the weight I would not recommend sailing with the pop top up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - NautiC25 on 03/19/2012 10:16:22

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 12:39:38

If your goal is to add enough inches to make full standing headroom, and add a little ventilation, a long time ago there were some discussions on using foam "swim noodles" from Walmart or wherever--laying them along both sides and lowering the top on them. I think the idea was that would be safer under way than a fully-raised top. (I never tried it--nor did I ever have the top up while under way.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/19/2012 12:40:37

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 12:56:08

Thanks, Dave Right now, I'm looking for a dry cover under which I can fix the wiring and camp out 2-3 days at a time, and not being to stand up in a dry spot for several days puts a knot in your back and bruises on my noggin. Gonna try a boom tent, I think.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 13:55:05

I had to look hard for this one but I remembered these that Jebrant had on his boat. I believe they hinged from the strut bolt.

Edited by - islander on 03/19/2012 13:56:42

Drjohn71a
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 14:10:12

Interesting...

Thanks so much for the effort to find and post those pics!

Edited by - Drjohn71a on 03/19/2012 14:34:32

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 14:20:32

Seemed like a simple solution, The top is not raised all of the way allowing him to leave his vang attached. I remember that he said he often sailed with it in this position In calm weather as in the second photo.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 19:22:09

I sometimes throw a cheap tarp over the boom and shockcord it to the station bases. Keeps the rain or sun out with plenty of ventilation for working below. A snap shackle takes care of the vang when I use the actual cover.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2012 : 20:26:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 I use this method if I have to have it up and feel quite safe with it. I just don't like having the hatch up because of the boom vang and visual issues.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 I secure this line anytime I put the top top up. I've seen the furling knob come loose and the slide drops at anchor when I did not notice it, leaving the top unsecured.

Given the weight I would not recommend sailing with the pop top up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I use a couple of these and they are tight when stretched around the mast as in the pictures above.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_99205-37340-1FS9120_0__?productId=3048650&Ntt=bungy+cord&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dbungy%2Bcord&facetInfo=

Edited by - GaryB on 03/19/2012 20:26:47

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2012 : 08:51:55

<< they are tight when stretched >>

Sorry to sound like a dud.. but anyhoo.. I've photographed several ruptured globes ( eyeballs ) from fishermen using bungee cords to secure tarps on the boats. They slip and pop you in the eye.

I like rope.

and yepper.. I'm scared of bottle rockets too...

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.