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Loose Traveler

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Firefly
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:40:31

Does anyone have advice on tightening a loose traveler on a 1981 boat. The bar that the main sheet is attached to is through bolted into the top of the transom. I don't see any way to access the nuts from below. Any ideas?

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:42:27

LOL...oh man are you in for it....

Let me find my post on this adventure......

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 08:47:48

[url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23440"]Traveler Repair Help[/url]

Here ya go....have fun!

Edited by - on

Firefly
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 09:49:52

Brutal,
Thanks for the help. I'll see what I can do.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Firefly
 Does anyone have advice on tightening a loose traveler on a 1981 boat. The bar that the main sheet is attached to is through bolted into the top of the transom. I don't see any way to access the nuts from below. Any ideas?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 10:08:27

Does your '81 have the new fuel locker? I have that on mine and it's what cause most of the issues....without it in the way you "might" be able to get at that bolt, unless it's like mine was and the head is blocked.

Od course, the whole "fuel locker issue" might be a red herring....the real problem is getting something on that bolt from underneath....which was impossible on my bolt because of the way it's designed back there.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 10:16:30

I think I'd be tempted to use this excuse to upgrade to a better traveler setup.

Edited by - on

Firefly
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 11:22:24

I have the locker,
Based on the docs you attached it looks like I'll need to go in through the inboard side of the transom. I think I'll look for a vent cover and cut in. Who knows, it may even add a little ventilation.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 Does your '81 have the new fuel locker? I have that on mine and it's what cause most of the issues....without it in the way you "might" be able to get at that bolt, unless it's like mine was and the head is blocked.

Od course, the whole "fuel locker issue" might be a red herring....the real problem is getting something on that bolt from underneath....which was impossible on my bolt because of the way it's designed back there.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 12:55:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 I think I'd be tempted to use this excuse to upgrade to a better traveler setup.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This.

It wasn't in the financial cards for me at the time....but the more I sail, the more appealing mid-boom sheeting is to me, with a really nice traveler setup.

The roadblocks for me: Don't want to block the companionway. I use the pop-top all the time...unless I'm under sail, that pop-top is up.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 16:53:01

if you use the boom vang, could the forces put on the traveler be low enough to mount to the pop top itself? Seems like with extra security of the pop top to the coach roof , that you could manage the best of both. Our boat came with an upgraded traveler on the stern.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2012 : 21:36:29

Rather than bolting the traveller down, why not remove the traveller, drill out the holes, then epoxy in some threaded anchors - made of stainless steel. One on each end. This way you're not having to get inside to spin on nuts or feed bolts up into a tight cavity.
The SS anchors are short, threaded tubes that may either have a flange on the end to serve as an anchor, or could be knurled to allow them to "bite" into the epoxy filler. Either way, you'd never have to deal with fishing nuts or bolts up through the transom again.

Edited by - Voyager on 04/10/2012 21:38:22

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2012 : 06:58:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Rather than bolting the traveller down, why not remove the traveller, drill out the holes, then epoxy in some threaded anchors -
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just how would you go about this? Remember, in my case at least, I found that bolt to be blocked by structure underneath. Looks like the traveler was installed before the deck was mated to the hull.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2012 : 10:20:10

Never pass up a chance to improve a boat when doing repairs. Harken traveler, full width, custom bent. If you are going in that tiny space with tools do something wonderful.

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Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2012 : 10:52:32

Frank, I have a simlar traveler upgrade by PO. The disadvantage is the tiller will not lift up out of the way at anchor now.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2012 : 11:21:49

Switch the tiller to be held in place with a quick release pin? The tiller doesn't raise up that high on my boat anyway.

I really like the compass mounting board on your boat "pastmember". I've been looking for a clever way to mount my iPad and GPS and will have to try something similar.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2012 : 12:04:18

This is Kansas Twister twice National Catalina 25 Champion, owned and sailed by Gary Sheppard.

I agree about the till issue, they don't come up much anyway.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2012 : 18:39:51

JoeDiver, you're right - I took another look at mine tonight and I have no idea how it's held in place or what to do once it gets loose.

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Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2012 : 21:06:21

If it gets loose, the only option you may have is cutting an access hole like I did and cranking that puppy down with a 3/4 open end....

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2012 : 08:15:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
...If you are going in that tiny space with tools do something wonderful.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I like that philosophy, Frank.

Must be good advice; my girlfriend tells me that as well (or words to that effect)...

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2012 : 18:08:42

I used a long extension and a socket and tightened it up.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 07:56:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 I used a long extension and a socket and tightened it up.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm glad you could get to yours! If I could have, it would have saved me quite alot of toil.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2012 : 13:33:30

This is true. Every boat is different. When I was replacing my Gudions I took a mirror and tried to look up there. No space,Nada. Pretty much filled up with fiberglass goo. I think I remember that Catalina used wood as a backing plate on the earlier models and a brass plate on the later ones. Water must leak down into the wood and eventually softens and collapses. If you can get to those bolts from below you are one of the lucky ones. For me it would be new vents.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2012 : 18:08:51

I've always wondered about the "concern" so many have about the traveler. Two things always come up: loose ones (which have a great fix as posted); and lack of "width".

The discussion about limiting the width if, say, a new Harken track is installed at the transom, makes me wonder why the issue of width is one at all.

Putting aside the loose traveler, and its solution, just what IS thde issue of the width?

The purpose of the traveler is to change the angle of attack without moving the mainsheet, which affects depth by height of the boom.

That said, the furthest "up" the boom should be is the centerline. As I recall, my C25's traveler could perform that function. So could the one on our C22. Of course, the boom being on centerline would require quite a bit of mainsheet "in".

We had our C22 for a few years and our C25 for 12 years. In 1998, we moved to a C34 with, as you know, a cabintop traveler, a whole different experience, believe me...

What I've learned is that the geometry of the midships traveler and mainsheet is completely different than the transom mounted traveler and boom-end mainsheet.

But, and here's the BUT, the PURPOSE remains the same: the traveler controls the angle of attack of the mainsail, the mainsheet does completely different things.

That said, most C25 skippers I've seen or heard about use the mainsheet to dump air in gusts, instead of the traveler - unless I never got to Sailing 101 when I had our C25. Maybe I'm just dead wrong and the C25 skippers DO use their travelers.

Reason is that I've found on our new boat, dumping the traveler is way easier than dumping the mainsheet, primarily because it is MUCH easier to pull the boom back by hauling on the traveler than it is to dump a lot of mainsheet and then have to crank it back from the cabintop winch.

So, questions are:

1) in gusts, do skippers use the traveler to dump air?

2) or do most of you let out the mainsheet?

3) have you checked to see if the traveler performs its function by being able to center the boom with good mainsheet haul-in?

4) or is the geometry "off" and you wish you had a much wider traveler (which wouldn't be "legal" for class racing)?

Those with cabintop traveler mods can chime in, too, to explain the reason for your mods.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2012 : 18:45:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stu Jackson C34
 The purpose of the traveler is to change the angle of attack without moving the mainsheet, which affects depth by height of the boom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The traveller allows you to adjust the position of the boom without changing leech tension.

I employ vang-sheeting to both compensate for the C25's limited traveller and so I'm able to use the mainsheet to play the puffs/gusts without affecting leech tension. Under load, the mainsheet is much easier to adjust than the stock traveller.

Edited by - dlucier on 04/15/2012 18:48:19

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2012 : 20:03:28

I spill with the mainsheet.

My traveler is hard to use. I've done some work on it and made it work well, but still, the way it's rigged, it's a pain (sorta) to move back and forth. So far, I've only used it in extremes: all the way to windward in a very gentle breeze, so I can run the mainsheet a little looser for a full sail but keep the boom over the center.....and all the way to leeward in stronger conditions to help heeling and weather helm.

Either way, it's not a big difference, but there is a difference. I can see how having longer travel can give you even more fine tune control. Normally, like 95% of the time, my traveler is centered and not in use.

I suppose, if it were rigged differently, I might use it more. Currently there's a sheet on each side, to a cleat. It's a bit of a juggling act having to uncleat both lines and move it, then cleat them back. Sometimes I can get lucky and release one side, let it out (over) and secure it, then take up the slack and recleat the other line. It would be better overall if it was just one line to move it back and forth.

I also have an adjustable backstay that I've never touched....maybe I should start a thread on it?

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 06:59:06

I usually pinch and feather into a puff rather than dump. If I need to dump then I am concerned and will dump the mainsheet because it has no limit to how much you can dump. (Hopefully in this situation your headsail is already appropriate for the conditions. If you have too much headsail then a full main dump will give so much lee helm that you may very well end up waring around through an uncontrolled gybe.) In a clocking gust an end boom traveler may not go far enough. A cabintop traveler can let a boom out far more.

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Firefly
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:18:01

Thank you guys for the advice. I used an 1 7/8 forstner bit to get at the bolt and a 3/4" box wrench to tighten it down. Small hole, easy to cover. You're suggestions cut a full day down to 15 min.

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