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Honda 8HP Engine Question

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2012 : 20:29:07

The lower unit is $186 on Boats.net. I really hope that the problem is the $10 gasket that goes on the copper tube, or the thermostat instead!

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 08:16:46

Jim,
Been giving this some thought. I went back and read your previous post when you were contemplating doing this and you mentioned there were black bits in your cooling system when you disassembled it. If you have one of the tee flush systems that was added by a previous owner the tee narrows the water channel somewhat there. When you add water via that connection using a water hose it can flow up to the head and out the tell-tale and water channels. The pump channels water to that same connection so if you are getting water out the tell-tale and the lower water exhaust when you flush and not when the engine is running the problem is either at the tee or at the pump. Since the thermostat is in the water channel after the tee it is not causing the problem or the problem would repeat itself when you are flushing the system.
I am wondering if you have bits of rubber caught where the pumped water reaches the tee. Since this is a narrowed point it could have collected broken impeller pieces. You might try disconnecting the tee and cleaning that area. When you reassemble it put a vice grip on the hose that follows the tee and hook up your water hose. This will backflush the tee and the water tube. Just something else to ponder.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 08:52:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 The lower unit is $186 on Boats.net. I really hope that the problem is the $10 gasket that goes on the copper tube, or the thermostat instead!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I hope it's just a $10.00 gasket on the copper tube too, but if this is a gasketed, sealed surface between the exhaust jacket and water passage, that half moon chunk of missing metal leads me to think otherwise. Before venturing to far from shore, you might want to show these pictures to a Honda mechanic for an opinion.

Edited by - dlucier on 05/04/2012 08:53:43

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 09:23:06

That's why I said the lower unit needs to be replaced.

I'm not a Honda engine mechanic....and you can surely take it to one for an opinion, but that housing around the impeller (or whatever that is) just can't be good. It looks pretty severely damaged, and JB Weld + gobs of sealer aint gonna fix that. It's not just that obvious chunk missing....the whole sealing surface looks trashed.

$186 for a new unit is a no brainer for me.

Just IMHO.

Edited by - Joe Diver on 05/04/2012 09:23:59

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 11:46:32

My plan is to drop the engine off tomorrow at the Honda dealer near the boat. I'll let them give me their opinion on why it isn't pumping. I can point them to the gasket and the cracks in the lower unit, but I'm a bit concerned about them automatically jumping to the lower unit as the source of the problem simply because it is the most expensive to replace (especially including shop time to transfer all the other "innards" from the lower unit).

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 15:46:22

Jim, $186 ??????? Try $744.26 http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard%20Engine/1997/BF8AM%20LA%20/GEAR%20CASE%20ASSY./parts.html

At $186 I'll take as many as they have...

Edited by - islander on 05/04/2012 15:48:04

Joe Diver
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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 17:49:58

That $700 price is for the "Case Assy"....which means the whole thing. Gears, impeller, everything you see there. Just bolt the new one up, lube it and put on a propeller.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 19:51:32

That's what I saw too, Scott. Of course, I'll have to pay labor rates to get someone to transfer all the "innards" from one lower unit to the other. In the end, I'm not sure which will be cheaper!

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2012 : 05:01:40

That price is for the complete lower, Comes fully assembled with new gears etc. so there is nothing to transfer except your prop. Lube it, bolt it on and go.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 12:40:25

I got a call from the Honda repair shop. They said:
1) That the water pump housing "is melted and the cup inside the housing no longer lines up with the opening";
2) 3 of the motor mounts are broken;
3) the reverse lock pin is missing; and
4) that the thermostat cover may not come off (they think the thermostat could have debris in it from "the overheat" and needs to be cleaned).

They are estimating $750-$900, but they are afraid it might even go higher. I asked them to send me a picture of the melted water pump housing, and this is what they sent:

Now, I remember the black part that's on the right-hand side of that picture; I removed it several times. But I don't remember the other, silver-colored part. To me, that looks like a part that's farther up on the housing, and is part of how the engine is hinged for steering.

This is the picture of the engine housing, presumably the part surrounding the thermostat. When I was looking around, I thought everything looked fairly clean and neat inside the engine, so I'm surprised that they thought it would be tough to get the cover off:

This is one of the broken motor mounts:

That part I think is legitimate (and I'm lucky the engine didn't fall off when I moved the boat, or while carrying the engine). I also knew that the reverse pin was missing, because the engine bucked like crazy when in reverse.

I am now really confused. The water pump housing looks a lot like the part that I took out; I don't see the melting that they mentioned (perhaps it happened previously, and my ignorance is keeping me from understanding that the housing had already melted). I also don't see that the thermostat is likely to be "difficult to remove." Can anyone provide feedback?

Edited by - on

JimGo
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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 12:43:33

As a follow-up, I think the black thing in the first picture is #2 on this chart:
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard%20Engine/1997/BF8AM%20LA%20/VERTICAL%20SHAFT/parts.html

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 13:20:57

Jim, that black thing inside the cup looks to be a piece of your impeller that has broken off. You should have just thrown it away. That whole black thing with the silver cup in the center is part#2. It is melted on the left side between the bolt holes probably because it was exposed to the exhaust heat where that separating wall was corroded away. The motor mount looks to be legit since its actually missing or they removed it but I'm guessing it got broken from the motor bucking in reverse (missing rev. lock pin). The thermostat I can't comment on without seeing it.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
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1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 13:43:17

Time for a new motor.

Don't throw good money after bad. Once you get all this done, what's next? There will be something. I've been down this road before. Time to fold.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 13:45:56

Scott (Islander),
Thanks for the feedback. The impeller was brand new; not sure what I would have thrown away. The black thing you see from about 12:00-3:00 is actually a slit in the water pump cover. It allows water to flow from inside that area (the impeller spins under/inside the silver cup) out through that slit and up the copper tube.

I'm just still not seeing the "melting" that he claims is there. I'm sure I'm missing something...

Edited by - JimGo on 05/09/2012 13:47:30

JimGo
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Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 13:47:08

Scott (Joe Diver), that's my concern, too. But coughing up $2000+ for a new motor isn't exactly in the cards at the moment, and will cost me a lot more at home.

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islander
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4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 14:36:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> But coughing up $2000+ for a new motor isn't exactly in the cards at the moment, and will cost me a lot more at home.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Then if the repair cost is do-able, Have it repaired, Use it this season but start saving for an new one. At the end of this season you can sell it to offset the cost of a new or a lightly used one. You probably won't get the repair money back when you sell it but you will have gotten the season out of it and delayed having to cough up for a new one for a year.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 15:11:57

Does the $750-900 estimate include a new lower unit housing?

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 16:03:20

Not that I know of. That's part of what scares me. He just referenced the "melted" water pump, broken engine mounts, and possibly stuck bolts on the thermostat covering.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 18:29:26

I agree with Joe. Dumpster time for the old Honda. I've tried "patching" boat motors up and screwed myself EVERYTIME.

Maybe you can part some of it out. Prop's probably good for $100. Maybe the power-head? I'd bet a minimum of $200 "as is" for the whole motor, maybe more.

Also, no ones mentioned looking for a used motor in good condition. You don't have to buy a new motor. You can probably pick up a good used motor for about the price of the "estimated" repairs or just slightly more. Use the money you make parting out the old motor to reduce the total outlay to maybe $600 - $700.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/09/2012 18:35:09

JimGo
Admiral

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962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 18:50:59

Scott (Islander) - somehow I missed your comment about the melting between the bolt holes. You may be right, that may be melting. I assumed, when I looked at the picture, that it was some grease. The shininess is what threw me - if it was melted, I would have expected the plastic housing to have been duller, not shiny like that.

Gary, I've been in touch with someone from Craigslist who buys used motors. I'm waiting for his initial offer on the engine (which will be based only on the info I've provided - he hasn't seen it yet). I hope to get between $300 and $400 for it, but your $200 may be more realistic.

Ultimately, at this point I'm a little leery about buying another used engine. I have a used 9.9 Evinrude that seems to run OK, but it's a standard shaft and even with my outboard bracket all the way down, I don't quite get low enough to get the intake into the water. So, that's going to stay on my inflatable. It was bought from someone who bought and repaired engines as a hobby (his garage was literally full of engines in various states of repair). If I can find someone like that again, I might consider a used engine. Otherwise, I'm more inclined to lean toward a new engine for the peace of mind of knowing its history. Some random stranger on CL or eBay just won't quite give me the "warm and fuzzy feeling" about the engine that I'd really like to have.

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 18:51:40

I searched for a decent used motor with a 25" shaft for quite a while. They seem more rare than two dollar bills.

I did not want to spend the money on a new motor, but I also did not want a wasted season dealing with a troublesome motor.

As far as a 15HP motor goes, I can't imagine that it would be needed. My old 8hp moved the boat at hull speed at a little over half throttle. Also, I don't see a 15HP tohatsu offered in a 25" shaft length.

Edited by - pfduffy on 05/10/2012 07:45:59

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 11:55:30

I saw that too, Pat. In fact, the only XL shaft I saw was in the 9.9.

Well, I have a commitment from someone to buy the engine for $175, in its current, "broken" form. At least that's a start!

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 12:52:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 I saw that too, Pat. In fact, the only XL shaft I saw was in the 9.9.

Well, I have a commitment from someone to buy the engine for $175, in its current, "broken" form. At least that's a start!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How much is the dealer charging you for teardown and diagnosis?

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 12:56:06

Half an hour's worth of shop time, so about $80 with tax.

Edited by - JimGo on 05/10/2012 12:56:31

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2012 : 05:34:35

Jim, how old is the Honda? I've followed the post but missed the age. My Honda 8 is a 2008 model, I change the oil, lower end lube, fuel filter and plugs, that's about the extent of my expertise, I hope I don't have anything major like your Honda anytime soon.

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