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!Surprise! items

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/29/2012 : 13:26:55

in previous conversations I mentioned that we manage to spend about $1,000 a year in maintenance and repairs. A few folks here said that that budget number was way high.

So far this spring thesurprises have included New tires for the trailer ($500+) and now a complete refit of the standing rigging ($600+).

The standing rigging was nagging me last year, and I got confirmation that it's time to replace it when the mas was raised this season. The trailer tires were a complete surprise as the trailer is new to us.

Incidentals and "cool stuff" are well over $500 this spring - a single can of VC-17 is $50, and i just dropped another $250 on lifejackets, foulies, etc. Add in the upgrades for this year (Cabin lighting at another $200) and the costs keep climbing. Launch was another $200 on top of that.

What am I doing wrong? I look for deals and use the swap meet, but you guys who are getting a season of sailing in with less than $1,000 in maintenance/upgrades/stuff must know some secrets I haven't discovered yet. I was toying with installing spinnaker gear, but this year's budget is already out the window, and we've only been afloat 3 days.

I'm not whining about how expensive it is to own a boat. I knew that when I got into this, I just can't wrap my head around how anyone is managing to get in a season of sailing without paying an extra $1,000 in maintenance, incidentals, etc. on top of slip fees. Please - share your tips!!

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 13:42:53

Looks like your upgrades are out of ordinary maintenance costs others are quoting for maintaining the existing boat. New tires, new standing rigging, if you amortize them over their useful expected life may help you feel better about spending?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 13:51:17

Question:
How many of these expenditures were necessities, and which were "feel good" or "it would be nice to have" purchases? Okay, the tires were unexpected, and launching/retrieval needs to be factored in. $250 on life jackets? $200 on cabin lighting? We had our 1984 boat for 5 years (just sold her) and the factory cabin lights were just fine for our needs. I did add a $10 pack of 3 puck lights for some extra convenience in the galley and head. I've seen 4-packs of life jackests on sale at places like Academy Sports and my favorite online shop, Sportsmans Guide, for $45-50, and these are not the orange bib-type, but standard 3-buckle jackets. Inflatable life vests and foulies make great Christmas and birthday presents, taking them out of the r/m budget.
What is your sailing venue? I did, and still do, mostly day sailing. Extended cruising will place additional demands for on board stuff, including safety equipment, and conveniences.
When we bought Recess, we factored in to the purchase price an extra $1500 for the first year for things like a bottom job, sail cleaning, and other one-time or long-term maintenance items. After that, the year-to-year costs were minimal, unless I did something unusual like buying a sail!

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/29/2012 13:56:13

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 13:53:02

The good news in this is that the local riggers will match CD's price, and come to the boat to remove/measure the rig. We should only be mastless for 2 days. I just have to lower/raise the mast. But still, I didn't need this at this point.

Feeling grumpy. Going home now to take up my troubles with a certain Miss Stella Artois.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 13:57:40

Give Miss Stella a good long kiss for us!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 13:59:38

We had some surprises when we first got SL, and we did a number of upgrades in the first couple of years. By far the largest was the new Tohatsu 9.8, but there was also the new VHF, electric bilge pump, GPS + maps, radar reflector, LED running lights, etc. That doesn't include the buy in at our marina which was 2-1/2x the cost of the engine. After the first couple of years the number of new or replacement items dropped significantly, plus I was able to defray some of the costs by selling the replaced item. I easily sold my old Johnson OB & VHF, some other stuff I've never been able to sell, I've got unused VC-17, replacement Aqua Signal fittings, etc. that haven't generated any interest, so they just sit.

The only big ticket item that I'm currently aware of is replacing the hydraulic coupler, and if I had to pull the boat right now, I'd have it craned onto the trailer instead of doing a strap recovery. Just too much hassle dealing with the current coupler.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 14:12:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Question:
How many of these expenditures were necessities, and which were "feel good" or "it would be nice to have" purchases? Okay, the tires were unexpected, and launching/retrieval needs to be factored in. $250 on life jackets? $200 on cabin lighting? We had our 1984 boat for 5 years (just sold her) and the factory cabin lights were just fine for our needs. I did add a $10 pack of 3 puck lights for some extra convenience in the galley and head. I've seen 4-packs of life jackests on sale at places like Academy Sports and my favorite online shop, Sportsmans Guide, for $45-50, and these are not the orange bib-type, but standard 3-buckle jackets. Inflatable life vests and foulies make great Christmas and birthday presents, taking them out of the r/m budget.
What is your sailing venue? I did, and still do, mostly day sailing. Extended cruising will place additional demands for on board stuff, including safety equipment, and conveniences.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was thinking that as I wrote the OP. The necessities alone here (mast, tires, launch) push me over the $1,000 point.

Most of the other stuff is wants.

Maybe I'm just a spendy guy.

Edited by - on

dolivaw
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 15:55:47

I have to agree with Ape-X... You should amortize the mast, tires & essential gear to get a realistic estimate of annual costs. You won't need to pay for those again for a while.

Edited by - on

dolivaw
Navigator

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USA
109 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 15:59:06

Also keep in mind, it's a hobby, a passion and an obsession, never an investment. And to quote my marina when they raised their rates... "It's a life-style choice!" =)

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 18:26:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dolivaw
 I have to agree with Ape-X... You should amortize the mast, tires & essential gear to get a realistic estimate of annual costs. You won't need to pay for those again for a while.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's how I'm looking at the SailPro motor I bought, and it added value to the boat.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 18:43:51

I heard if you buy at least a five foot bigger boat your cost go down!

Edited by - GaryB on 05/29/2012 18:44:05

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 19:06:59

Maybe my rig concerns are much ado about nothing. How long is a standing rig good for in a freshwater environment? Should I be able to bend a T-bolt in my hands? Are a couple of kinks worth worrying about?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 20:29:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Maybe my rig concerns are much ado about nothing. How long is a standing rig good for in a freshwater environment? Should I be able to bend a T-bolt in my hands? Are a couple of kinks worth worrying about?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If your standing rigging was original then it definitely was due. No, you should not be able to bend a T-bolt and a couple of kinks are worth worrying about. Sounds like you made the right call. Safety is not an extravagance.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 03:36:59

Thanks Randy - I don't know that its original, I am trying to reach the PO to see if he replaced it. If not, then the rig is 10+ years old. I think that is about half its safe life. IIRC, you should replace every 20 years as a bare minimum, some default to 10 - but that is a saltwater number. I haven't found a number for freshwater.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/30/2012 03:41:05

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 04:33:17

Chris,

Interesting topic - The cost of owning a boat !

Many factors besides condition of the boat. If you have huge other expenses such as caring for a young family and paying off a large mortgage or rent, then there are those that have other priorities that dictate what is spent on the sailboat over and above necessities. There are those that just let things go...Have very low cost annual boat expenses or those that are extremely handy and do almost all work themselves even manufacturing work-arounds. There are those that always work improvements or hobby type projects and ...well just many, many factors as to what the annual cost is in owning a boat.

You are not doing anything wrong. If it makes you feel any better, I have you beat by a long shot as to the expenses I have layed out since purchasing my boat in Fall 2005. Just the things off the top of my head (and I am sure I am leaving off plenty) and I won't provide the individual costs but you can sort of estimate for yourself and then divide by 7 for the years I have owned my boat - Too embarrassed to actually provide the numbers ! But the last item on the list, it alone almost equals the $1000/yr annual cost you indicated if figured over the 7 years ! Also, my standing rigging is overdue for a change - So that is eventually coming.

But - I sail a lot, I enjoy it, I like the projects and I believe it is a feel good positive healthy sport/hobby that helps releave stress of everyday work, etc. hard to put a price on that benefit !!

Honda 9.9 XLS outboard
4 spring Garhauer outboard motor bracket
Quantum custom sails (Main and 150 furling rig Genoa)
Kyocera 20 Watt Solar Panel w/digital read-out controller
Humminbird fishfinder w/Ram Swing arm
Extended Bunk, Pivoting table w/shelves, Vberth Plexiglas storage compartment, 2 Catafamo Scirroco fans.
New 8 circuit breaker/switch panel
Rewired mast w/photo-diode LED Anchor Light
Battery charger
All running rigging replaced and an addl anchor purchased
Mast mate purchased for going up the mast (at least to steam light)
Auto-inflate PFD and then recently bought another w/hydrostatic valve
Annual pressure washes
Copolymer Anti-fouling Paint applied in 2006-7 in mtn yard by workers
then applied again at completion of below item.
The biggy - 2011-12 Blister Repair Job w/waterproofing

Edited by - OLarryR on 05/30/2012 05:21:36

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 04:50:36

Previous owner of my boat used it for 20 years and never replaced a thing. He was always proud of saying "Everything is original". Pilot. He would use something until it fails, and know what to do when it fails.

I could not fly...

Interesting how different an attitude can be.... there is a lesson there...

Edited by - redeye on 05/30/2012 06:50:28

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 05:10:30

Gary - At first, I missed your comment: "I heard if you buy at least a five foot bigger boat your cost go down!"

You got that right !! I like that thinking !!

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 08:09:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Thanks Randy - I don't know that its original, I am trying to reach the PO to see if he replaced it. If not, then the rig is 10+ years old. I think that is about half its safe life. IIRC, you should replace every 20 years as a bare minimum, some default to 10 - but that is a saltwater number. I haven't found a number for freshwater.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I talked to couple riggers at the boat show. I was told life time of rigging is 5 years in saltwater and 7 years in fresh - but no one follows it. :-) Personally those numbers are quite low... but i'm no rigger.

I sailed first couple of years barely doing anything.... but now I'm spending whole whack of cash into the boat - i just invested approx over 5k into the boat over the winter (new motor, furler, furling genoa). And i have a list of more upgrades for the next couple of years.

now I'm contemplating picking up a trailer as I have access to a family farm to store the boat there for free... hahaha... i still need to convince my wife that trailer will pay for itself after 2 years.

I love the comment above - "It's more than a hobby, it's a way of life!"

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 08:43:31

FIWI Szymek, I am having the Rigging Shoppe out to take a look at teh rig and let me know what they think. If you have any rig-related questions, let me know and I'll try to remember to ask them.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 09:07:25

I would like to know if the riggers can install new rigging without lowering the mast. I know many riggers advertise they have mobile rigging services and some have photos showing they are up the mast but not sure if they actually change rigging if you do not want to drop the mast.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 09:18:44

I already asked about that Larry.

These guys want the mast lowered so they can inspect all the mast contact points before quoting the job. They then work up a quote on teh spot, go into teh shop and fabricate the standing rigging, return to teh boat and reinstall. 2 days turnaround time.

They also offer a parts only deal where they will manufacture the rig to brochure specs and you can install on your own. Since the new club has a crane and a bucket truck, I could theoretically book teh crane and truck and replace one shroud at a time until the whole rig was up.

For the effort (and peace of mind) I'd rather drop the mast and get the whole rig inspected so that any bolts, plates, pins, etc. that are suspect in the masthead, or the babystays can be inspected, and if needed, replaced.

For the other Canadians on here - I will let you know how things go with Rigging Shoppe and if they are able to meet CD's prices, you may have a secopnd source without border hassels. I will also start a thread on the re-rig and point the riggers to it once I get some confirmation of the meeting from Rigging Shoppe.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 15:36:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Maybe my rig concerns are much ado about nothing. How long is a standing rig good for in a freshwater environment<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Depends on how much of a gambler you are. I'm not so I replaced my standing rigging last year on my 87. That summer I saw 4 Catalinas (3 C25's and 1 C250) motoring along with their busted masts strapped to the deck. It gave me the hebegebe's.

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 17:55:26

Perhaps I've been lucky to expend half of what Prospector claims on an annual budget. Except for the unexpected replacement of the outboard in the first summer, my costs have been moderate. Annual upkeep purchases of VC-17 and Cetol, cleaning supplies, wax, some cordage; the rest is elbow grease. A new battery in 4 years is no biggie.

I replaced the lower aft shrouds last year and the rest passed inspection. The pair cost $165 and my club's boatyard installed them at the mooring for $100. Later on, a racing friend tuned my rig for a handshake. The marina in Buffalo, where PD is stored for the winter, charges by the foot for most services, dropping the mast $138, installing new sheaves over the winter $188, and stepping the mast in spring $138 (but that was only once in 5 years).

The sails were almost new when I purchased her. I clean them as advised on this forum and store them at home. Maybe I would be more concerned if I was a racer.

None of you mentioned haul-out, storage, launch or dockage/mooring costs in your responses and I am not either. That seems to vary by local supply/demand. However, my club's mooring charges are quite reasonable.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 19:27:27

I don't want to add everything up, but I've been surprised at how reasonable my costs have been. I spent more up-front for a newer, well-equipped boat with the expectation that ongoing costs would be less, and so far that has been mostly true.

The biggest one-time expenses have been a new genoa that was required ($770), 5 boat stands for winter storage ($600) and a new VHF/AIS radio that was an optional safety enhancement ($325 + some computer parts) and a few SnapIt accessories (~$300 over 3 years). Ongoing costs are slip fee ($1050/year including electric), boat club dues $150/year, haulout/storage/launch (only $300/year at my club, which makes buying the boat stands worth it), insurance about $100/year, and bottom paint & supplies about $200 every 2 years.

I gave up golf to free up more time for sailing, and quit the country club, which saves me about $4000/year in dues and required food purchases. So with those savings, I'm in the black on this venture big time! And my wife loves not being a golf widow any more.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 11:35:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 The good news in this is that the local riggers will match CD's price, and come to the boat to remove/measure the rig. We should only be mastless for 2 days.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you upgrading the lowers so everything is the same size? Remember, never pass up a chance to make things better. While Loos measurements are arbitrary and relative to me but many would like the standing rigging to all be the same size so a single loos can give better readings.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 12:07:28

Good tip Frank - Thanks.

Edited by - on

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