Association Forum - first cruise and anchoring questions

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

first cruise and anchoring questions

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/29/2012 : 13:38:14

My wife and I took our C-25 out for our first overnight last weekend:
http://alexwetmore.org/?p=1277

The boat worked nicely and we had a pretty good trip. There was one place coming down Dyes Passage where the wind was very gusty and I wasn't yet reefed and the boat heeled over a lot more than my wife is comfortable with when a gust came from an odd angle as we were tacking. I should have reefed earlier (I had asked her if she wanted me to reef a few minutes earlier). We motored out of the passage, then sailed again when we got to calmer and more favorable conditions.

It was also our first time anchoring. We anchored for the night in non-zero winds (they picked up after we went to bed) and I was surprised to see how much the boat would sail up the anchor line. I've searched the archives and see that an anchor riding sail can make a big difference. Our scope was shorter than ideal (due to anchoring on a fairly steep slope) and I don't know if a longer scope would have helped.

This got me thinking about what can make up an anchor riding sail. Is there any reason that a storm jib couldn't be raised on the backstay as an anchor riding sail? I'd rather spend money on a storm jib and have a dual purpose sail than to buy something limited to a single use.

Alex W
Seattle, WA
Express 37 "re-Quest"
previously owned 1984 Catalina 25 "Lutra"

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 06:27:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I was surprised to see how much the boat would sail up the anchor line.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Is your tiller tied up?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I'd rather spend money on a storm jib and have a dual purpose sail than to buy something limited to a single use.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'd say save your money. You probably will not use it for either. If the weather is bad enough that you need a storm jib, you should probably be off the water in a C25. Most of the time, if the weather man is right, we can anchor in a less windy spot. YMMV.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 06:36:21

Nice pics and story, looks like you're having a great time

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 07:25:47

Yes, the tiller was tied up (using a tiller tamer).

Even in light winds (around 5mph or less, in a protected shelter) our boat was swinging quite a lot.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 07:43:43

I just remembered why my boat doesn't swing much anymore. I added this:

Gets the anchor line out in front of the boat more. You may need to try to get the anchor line centered more to the bow.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 08:29:35

Davy J - your picture above reminds me of this:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/mooring_prep

Edited by - OJ on 05/30/2012 08:30:08

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 08:42:25

I bought the riding sail kit from SailRite and it did help the hunting on my C25 and it works pretty good on my C&C 39... My C25 hunted with a vengence, so I would shackle on a bunch of chain and use my "AnchorBuddy" kellet thing, - which is for sale BTW - just so I could sleep well. One of the reasons I grew to love the CQR, it will move the shank first when hunting...

sten

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 08:49:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Davy J - your picture above reminds me of this:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm not on a mooring. The dock line you see in the photo leads to the dock and is not able to come into contact with the anchor. Though I could see how you might come to that conclusion.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 08:53:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 If the weather is bad enough that you need a storm jib, you should probably be off the water in a C25... YMMV.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My mileage varies.

We often go out in weather others call marginal, and have put our storm jib to good use while sailing with a double reef. I remember a few years back at teh end of season, we sailed into the marina complaining about how boring the sail had been (storm jib and single reef) and saw teh police rigging their rescue boat. Apparently a "stupid blow-boater" was getting overpowered and couldn't point upwind to get back.

Our storm jib probably sees service about 3-4 times a season. We have never used an anchor riding sail though.

Edited by - on

DavidCrosby
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
240 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 12:16:40

I saw on some forum that a guy made an anchor riding sail out of a square blue poly tarp. It was folded in half diagonally, hoisted up the back stay at the fold. A broom stick spanned the two corners to form a V. He claimed it worked quite well.

I surf a lot of forums, I am not sure where I saw this. If I can find it, I will post a link.

I happen to have several old Snipe jibs. I am planning on sewing two together at the luff. These would be hoisted up the back stay and like mentioned above I would spread them at the clews with a whisker pole or broom stick or ??

I'll have to provide an update once I have done this and tried it out.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 12:23:39

I've seen the same post on a blue tarp riding sail. Seems like it might be on Arlyn's site? Yep, [url="http://pages.suddenlink.net/arlyn/sailing/ridingsail.html"]found it[/url].

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 13:41:07

It doesn't sound like that one worked too well. I was thinking of asking my sail maker for some scrap fabric (I need to go by to pick up my new main soon anyway) or to look for a small used jib.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 16:13:42

I bought the sailrite anchor sail last year. I tried it once and was disappointed with the results. It is possible that if I play around with the rigging of it the results might improve but right now it resides in its bag somewhere down below.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 16:31:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We often go out in weather others call marginal<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Can't do that here. 20knts results in 6 to 8 foot rollers in the Gulf, and 3-5' steep breaking waves in the bay. It's not that the wind is blowing, it's what the wind is blowing up.....

just stole that from Ron White....

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 16:31:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 I bought the sailrite anchor sail last year. I tried it once and was disappointed with the results. It is possible that if I play around with the rigging of it the results might improve but right now it resides in its bag somewhere down below.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I found that rigging it this way http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/horsing.php worked well.

sten

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 17:06:54

Hmmm. That article says to tie the clew amid ship but the sailrite directions say not to do this but to tie it off to the port or starboard side ??? Ill have to try it amid ship.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 19:48:48

I read the article a few times - did it say to set the anchor from the stern? What appendage do you secure the anchor from? Both stern cleats in a Y configuration?

In my case I found Passage swinging at anchor one night with open water to port and a huge granite wall to starboard. I happened to see a fender floating approximately 50 ft aft. Was able to back down my anchor line and picked it up. It was pretty securely anchored so I tied my starboard stern cleat to the buoy, and viola! No more problems.

IMHO, next time I'd prefer to set both the bow and a stern anchor.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 19:49:05

I'll be chartering a C36 in a few weeks, and overnight anchoring is something that I will have to do for the first time. The issue of hunting at anchor will be a real concern, and a riding sail is unlikely to be available on a charter. So I'll be looking for other options.

What about a second lunch hook-sized anchor off the stern? I could even bring my own along. If the winds shift overnight, I might have to reset the second anchor at a different angle, but as long as things are steady it might help. What do you more experienced people suggest?

Obviously I'll be waking up frequently to check on things (as well as bringing my anchor alarm to bed), but a nice workable solution would help me sleep better.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 15:24:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">read the article a few times - did it say to set the anchor from the stern<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Gees Bruce, Where did you get that? No you set the anchor normally off the bow. All of my boats would swing some at anchor in a breeze but the C25 takes the prize. Mine will sail up even with the anchor so the anchor line is 90 deg to the bow then drop back cross over and sail back up the other way so I know what awetmore was experiencing.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 15:34:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">read the article a few times - did it say to set the anchor from the stern<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Gees Bruce, Where did you get that?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You might want to re-read the article. It did suggest anchoring from the stern, and explained the reason why. It also offered other options.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 16:28:36

Your right, I stand corrected but I wouldn't do it.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 16:50:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 I'll be chartering a C36 in a few weeks, and overnight anchoring is something that I will have to do for the first time. The issue of hunting at anchor will be a real concern, and a riding sail is unlikely to be available on a charter. So I'll be looking for other options.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Rick, I don't remember seeing any of the bigger boats around here hunting at anchor. Mine has never done so. The only reason I have ever set a second anchor has been in a severe blow. I used a forked moor, which is not only a strong method of anchoring, but it also incidentally limits swinging to some extent. I found a good description of the forked moor online.

"Using two anchors set approximately 45° apart, or wider angles up to 90°, from the bow is a strong mooring for facing into strong winds. To set anchors in this way, first one anchor is set in the normal fashion. Then, taking in on the first cable as the boat is motored into the wind and letting slack while drifting back, a second anchor is set approximately a half-scope away from the first on a line perpendicular to the wind. After this second anchor is set, the scope on the first is taken up until the vessel is lying between the two anchors and the load is taken equally on each cable. This moor also to some degree limits the range of a vessel's swing to a narrower oval. Care should be taken that other vessels will not swing down on the boat due to the limited swing range."

Personally, I wouldn't use the forked moor except in a blow, because, generally people who anchor nearby don't know how you are anchored, so, when they place their anchor, they assume your boat will swing on a similar arc to theirs. If it doesn't, the boats can bump together when the wind direction shifts. Anchorages in popular areas are crowded, and IMO it's generally best if your boat swings with the crowd.

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 17:23:00

Alex....Following Arlyn Stewart's lead (under Ground tackle at http://pages.suddenlink.net/arlyn/sailing/mods.html) we've used a bowline-on-a-bight as he describes. As Arlyn notes, the bridal does not eliminate the hunting but it does markedly reduce it. As for using a storm jib as a riding sail, if you have one, yes it can be used. IIRC Bill Holcomb described using it this way a year or two back on this forum. I also use a kellet which effectively allows using a shorter scope thus also reduces hunting.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 18:09:27

Scott & Rick,
When I first anchored Passage in a breeze, I was shocked that it did not stay put. My little 16 footer never did that, so I was quite surprised by the "sailing at anchor". It absolutely made no sense to me.

For overnights, now, I regularly set a stern anchor first, then power up and drop the bow anchor, and tighten the two of them up.

I've also read about using two bow anchors set 45-60 degrees apart. Never tried it. It is probably a great idea when a wind shift is expected. In this case, I'd set my main anchor into the wind, and my 2nd anchor in the direction of the shift (provided that the shift is expected within the 60 degree zone).

The only critique of the dual anchor approach (whichever one you use) is that if you're in a tight mooring field with others using a single anchor and there's a shift, you could wind up colliding with nearby boats who are swinging free.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 18:12:03

Thanks, guys. Great advice!

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 07:14:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glivs
 Alex....Following Arlyn Stewart's lead (under Ground tackle at http://pages.suddenlink.net/arlyn/sailing/mods.html) I also use a kellet which effectively allows using a shorter scope thus also reduces hunting.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Anchor buddy kellet looking for a new home... Too small for my 7/8" rodes, so I'll need to move up to the 30lb version. Worked great on my C25 and really did minimize hunting in crowded anchorages like Newport where we usually scared the yachties away with our unique hunting patterns.

I'm not a huge fan of two hooks unless they are inline. I've seen bumper boat action in places like St. Augustine where the local anchorage freeloaders/wanna be anchor cops, practically demand that you put down two hooks. The two hooks tangle and foul, or the vessel stays put when everyone else is going somewhere else and they bump and grind until someone notices. Major damage sometimes...

Anyhow, I've also seen mains slightly raised and sheeted to one side or the other to control hunting. One sailor in Charleston where the tide runs 3-4 knots, used his AP during ebb and flood.

How much a vessel hunts has everything to do with keel and hull shape and how much windage the topsides present. The C25 scores low points in a rough anchorage, but most trailerables do. I'd do a tarp first and play with different configurations. Try a riding sail and the tiller tied off to one side. Have roller furling? Run a scrap of headsail and secure the heck out of the furler line and sheets. Balance the vessel.

A lot of serious cruisers do carry anchor riding sails, but most of us will admit that we rarely deploy them. That said, our vessel shape et al is significantly different and we use the riding sails when it is really going to blow. IMHO, a riding sail should be included with the 250's going out the door now.

sten

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.