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Making accomodations for age or injury.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Initially Posted - 07/03/2012 : 21:06:56

This past January, I had a very frightening episode where something "popped" in my back putting me into excruciating pain. A visit to my bone doc, an MRI, and a CAT scan showed me to have "severe degenerative bone disease" from my L1 through S1 discs. Otherwise known as arthritis. I ended up having to have CAT guided steroid injections in my L4 joint to ease the pain (very successfully I might add).

Until the injury happened, my back was occasionally grumpy, but nothing to get excited about, about the same as various other injuries I've learned to live with and mostly ignore (both knees, shoulder, neck, ankle, both wrists, etc). However, since the injury, the pain in my back is not quite constant, and can definitely be tamped down with NSAIDs, usually Tylenol & Ibuprofen (I keep a pretty good pharmacopeia in each of my vehicles and on the boat, mostly stocked with Costco generics). Usually. When the injury occurred, I never went anywhere without narcotics on hand in case I had an "attack". The steroids seem to have fixed that, not one "attack" since the injection.

After our trip on Sunday to go crabbing, which involved a fair amount of just sitting around, in the cool breeze, my back was pretty grumpy the next day. Sitting in our Jacuzzi definitely helps. Fortunately, the pain calms down within a day, and today I'm experiencing little pain, it's definitely back down into the "ignore" range. However, I've noticed after each trip on the boat, I have to deal with this. I'm resigned to the pain, I've been putting up with pain pretty much my entire life, and it's largely just by ignoring it, but I'm curious what you guys do, if anything, to accommodate your injuries or age or both.

Since a bunch of us on here are in the greater than 50 age range, I felt this was a reasonably valid question to ask. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's dealing with things like this. What do you guys do?

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - delliottg on 07/03/2012 21:07:33

Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 07/03/2012 : 22:30:56

I have my boat in a slip and I noticed after spending a day at the boat I was always experiencing pain in my left hip. Turned out I always lead with my left leg when stepping off the boat and the jolt from landing on it was driving my "leg bone" into my hip joint. I put a step by the boat and the problem went away. Guess I'm to old and fat to be jumping around like a kid.

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 07/03/2012 : 22:45:17

You may remember several years back, Rita jumped off the boat while docking in some rolling waves, and crushed her heel, necessitating emergency surgery to fix it. She suffers a bit from that injury and has to wear orthotics if she knows she's going to be on her feet a lot. We've since made a rule that you never jump down, you always step down onto the dock. We also bought a small folding step stool to make it easier to get on and off the boat. It could be a bit taller, it's only about 9" tall. We have a bigger one we use to get into the Jacuzzi, I might get one of that style and replace our smaller one. Actually the one for the Jacuzzi is a bit small for Rita (she's only 5' tall), so maybe find a bigger one for the tub & use it's current one for the boat.

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Joe Diver
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 05:40:21

I'm 46....and have a herniated disk down low. Can't remember which one. I've had 1 surgery and 1 series of injections. Currently, I'm on pain management medication and with that, and careful activity, it's well managed.

Crazy thing is....I can spend an afternoon scuba diving....or moving stuff around...or doing heavy housework....no issues at all. Lift a leg in the shower to soap it up and wham! I'm down for 3 days. Makes no sense to me. I picked up 16' of wooden fence blown down in a storm, held it up with my shoulder while I drove a metal post into the ground to secure it....I was tired but back was fine. Bend over to pick up a dropped Cheeto....wham! Down for 3 days.

When I had my surgery, I was in very bad shape. The pain was excruciating. It felt like a burning sensation in my lower back, a knife stuck in my left butt, my left leg felt like it was going to explode, and was numb from the knee down. I could only get around by being bent at a 45 degree angle, twisted, and dragging my left leg behind me...Quasimodo style....even my untrained eye could see in the MRI how the disk was bulged out, fully cutting off 2/3 of the canal and pressing the nerve against the canal wall. The spinal surgeon told me that for a case this severe, my only option was to go in and remove that material.

Honestly, it was a miracle....I went in early in the morning...and by Noon...I walked out of there upright, normal stride. Took 2 weeks for the feeling to come back to my left foot. If need be, he can go in one more time to remove material before I'm looking at a disk fusion. It's low enough to not make a major change to my flexibility....but....I'm pretty well managed right now, so take it day by day.

Sux gettin older.....that back is just the beginning......

Edited by - Joe Diver on 07/04/2012 05:43:20

britinusa
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 06:19:43

Thankfully I'm not pain laden. I visit a really good massage therapist every other week and she puts me though a pretty good wringer. Like I said 'Thankfully'.

The admiral has slipped too often on the boat and is consequently pretty anxious when the boat heels and rarely makes it to the cabin top.

So my accommodations include reefing early, working at keeping the heeling down.

The biggest issue we have is trying to get out of the cabin when the boat is misbehaving. I'm ok, but Peggy is uncertain of her steps. Again, keeping the boat steady when needed helps here.

Stepping on and off the boat: I'm the dock crew, but when Pegs steps over the gunwhale, I assist.

We have the original cockpit seat cushions, very unstable, we'll most likely swap them out for ones that stick to the seats as when they shift, it's an injury risk, either from stepping on them or sliding when the boat heels.

Down below I have considered getting Peggy a hard hat

Paul

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 07:03:53

Dave, At 61 I know the pain having a herniated disk that would slip every now and then making me immobile for a few days but as I get older it takes longer to fix itself and I have to take the pain and muscle relaxers longer till it subsides so 4 yrs ago I got an inversion table. So far it has worked miracles. My back hasn't slipped since I started using it. Cat25's are not the greatest boats to have if you have a bad back and are tall (I'm 6'3). Especially in the cabin. Sucks getting old.

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 07:34:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 We have the original cockpit seat cushions, very unstable, we'll most likely swap them out for ones that stick to the seats as when they shift, it's an injury risk, either from stepping on them or sliding when the boat heels.
Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My wife broke her foot after coming out from down below and slipping on an unattached cushion. VERY SERIOUS flaw on SO many boats. A couple of pad eyes and some heavy line or canvas sewn into the cushions to attach to the pad eyes and you're done.

I'm 46 and have my own back issues. Some reflections on this topic include the observation, and the experience, of the punishment the body takes while sailing. Think about the bracing with different muscle groups than you would need on land. The less than ideal ergonomics of cockpits, cabins, etc... Sitting vertical down below can be tiring. Not having standing headroom will only accelerate lower back pain issues. And they don't actually make anything comfortable, including bedding. www.tuftedtopper.com makes a good pillowtop mattress cover for your berth. That helps, a few pillows down below and you can be comfortable.

I use this beanbag thing to avoid the square corners http://www.freebag.no/first/english/english/index.htm and I try to relax. Stress causes lower back tension, doing stuff on the boat while tense causes damage and you are likely to exert effort first and think about it later compounding the problem. Thinking your way thru and using mechanical advantage to make maneuvers easier helps. I love my boom brake. Slows me down a little and reduces the load on the primary winch.

I also have worked on the affected muscle groups at the gym and on the water. A couple of miles of rowing a 10' Zodiac RIB will make your back sore, but do that for a few weeks and the muscles will compensate for structure loss by getting stronger.

But I learned from a great boatyard owner/Commodore who would be the first one up and the last one standing at 87 years old, and when I asked him how he did it he said, "Captain, if you stop moving, you're dead." A longer discussion revealed that with age, a little modification was required, but that would not stop him from sailing. Just have to finesse it...

sten

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 08:00:19

At 54 I have far fewer aches & pains than I did 20 years ago. I joke that it's because of all the nerve endings dying. But seriously, much of it comes from treating a sleep disorder 15 years ago. Previously I was tossing and turning all night; severe snoring; hip, neck, lower back, and shoulder pain from sleeping on my side; lousy posture; falling asleep in meetings; dental problems and bad breath from mouth breathing; etc. etc. It was a never-ending downward spiral. With CPAP all that was eliminated because I sleep soundly, flat on my back, breathing through my nose.

Moral of the story: a lot of things are interconnected, and solving the root cause can wipe out a lot of problems. In my case, CPAP is a treatment, not a cure. A cure would require breaking and resetting my jaw, which is more than I am willing to do.

Life is a lot better now.

Edited by - TakeFive on 07/04/2012 20:50:59

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 08:26:02

Great topic. I try to be very careful with my back as it get tweaked fairly easily. I am especially careful with lifting technique and really avoid bending-and-lifting motions.

We also try to go lighter. We just bought a new inflatable dink and will be selling the Walker Bay with tubes. The WB is a great tender but just a bit too heavy and awkward for us.

Hate to say it but Pat has taken on some of my old chores. She is not big but she's pretty strong. She does the lawn mowing, edging, pressure washing kinds of things around the house. I was embarrassed at first but, after about five minutes, got over it.

Be careful of the NSAIDs. I had a snowboarding injury and took a lot of NSAIDs. Ended up in Intensive Care with internal bleeding. NSAIDs can cause stomache bleeding and kidney problems. Be careful with them.

Also, I walk a lot. 5 miles a day and I think that keeps me in good overall health. We also sometimes think about going with a smaller boat that requires less muscle. I suspect that after a bit more cruising we will do that or - forgive me for this - go to a motorboat.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 08:42:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 ...or - forgive me for this - go to a motorboat.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Forgiven!

Mine sleeps two, parties 10... and can visit the sub base, Watch Hill, Long Island, Block Island, etc., and get home in an afternoon. If you still want to have some real fun with the wind, just add a Sunfish.

Knocking on wood, I've been pretty lucky since the year-and-a-half of shoulder pain from lifting an overweight suitcase out of a water taxi in Venice. (I guess you could call that a boating injury...) After a day of overdoing just about anything, I pop a couple of ibuprofens at bedtime--a preemptive strike.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/04/2012 08:49:40

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 09:06:04

I sometimes wish I had low back pain. Maybe that would hide the constant pain between my shoulder blades. I have a thing my physical therapist called hyper-kyphosis. Never heard that prhase before but I've always had a posture that would prompt my mother to say "put your shoulders back" Now that I'm a lot closer to 60 than 50, that's not so easy to do. Being 50 pounds overweight and out of shape probably doesn't help much.

As for the effect on the boat, I don't really like tacks that are too long. OK, I LIKE them but my upper back doesn't. I start to get stiff after a mile or so and have to either move to leeward (I prefer to man the helm on the high side) or turn the boat. Naproxen is my friend but Randy's exactly right about NSAIDs.

Paul, the first thing that popped into my head regarding Peggy's tendencies was "what kind of shoes is she wearing" Nobody wears flip-flops or goes barefoot on my boat. Kind of like looking for the root cause Rick spoke about.

As for the cockpit cushions, try some of those non-slip cupboard liners under the cushions. It grips the gelcoat on the bottom and the vinyl above. Really reduces slippage.

When I bought my boat, there was a dock step made of pressure treated lumber secured to the trailer. I don't even know what it feels like to board without it. Besides, my short legs (5'4") wouldn't like the high freeboard on my boat.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 09:39:33

I'm knocking on the door of 68 this year, but I find that if I always have at least one hand for me when moving and take everything a little slower, I'm ok. A few knee surgeries, a shoulder in the past, and a knee replacement one of these days should keep me sailing for another decade or two. Chris has developed low back problems, bone spurs and arthritis rather than disk, and has moved from the V-berth to the quarter with 2 inches of egg-crate foam and 2 inches of memory foam. She is going to try the fold out starboard settee, but I think the different thicknesses of the 2 cushions might be a problem.

Folding, adjustable Go Anywhere Seats from WM have made cockpit lounging much better for both of us:

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 10:42:59

I agree, Dave. My Go Anywhere seat really helps by allowing me to sit facing forward with my feet up rather than contorted while holding the tiller. Best $10 I ever spent. I got it at a marina garage sale a couple of years ago.

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 10:54:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"Captain, if you stop moving, you're dead." <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I take this to heart & quote (well paraphrase) Newton's first law to Rita when she asks me why I keep the boat. A body in motion tends to stay in motion. If I quit, then I've lost.

I started walking after the injections, only about 3/4 mile at first, but we're up to about two miles now. When the injury first occurred, I had similar loss of sensation, numbness, and shooting pains from my lower left back down my left leg. I couldn't walk upright and the only semi-comfortable position was laying down with my left leg pulled up a bit. I also found that I could "pop" my back to relieve the pain, but it took me a couple of weeks to figure out how to do it, plus I was a little scared of trying, didn't want to make it worse. My upper leg was numb (indicating an L4 injury as opposed to L5 for lower leg like yours), and walking was iffy. I had borrowed a cane from a co-worker on the day of the incident (literally pushed myself upright in my office chair from a bit of a slouch with just my left foot, something I've probably done a million times).

I got a nice piece of bamboo from my brother, and made myself a walking stick, suitably decorated with some marlinspike work, added a rubber foot to it, and started walking. It was slow at first, and painful, but my bone doc had told me to exercise to tolerance. If it hurt too much, don't do that, or ease into it, so I did. Made a huge difference, unfortunately it's something that I don't enjoy, so I have to make myself go do it. Having an app to track distances and times made it into a bit of a game, but not enough to keep me interested. And now that the pain has backed off, I haven't been walking in about three weeks or so. I need to get back to it.

I've also dropped about 30 lbs over the past six months or so, which I think is making an enormous difference.

As far as NSAIDs go, I go out of my way to not take them, simply to keep my levels down. However, if I'm in pain, I don't hesitate to take them, and by pain, I mean really hurting. If it's just my everyday ignorable pain, that's what I do, ignore it. Fortunately, I can still take them, my father wasn't allowed to, and I had a co-worker who had bone one bone contact in both his knees who wasn't allowed to take them either. Ouch.

Edited by - delliottg on 07/04/2012 10:58:39

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 11:43:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Best $10 I ever spent.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'll say! I thought they were worth every penny of the $40 each that we spent.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 11:52:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 I also found that I could "pop" my back to relieve the pain, but it took me a couple of weeks to figure out how to do it, plus I was a little scared of trying, didn't want to make it worse. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My PT showed me a clever trick to "mobilize" the vertebrae. She really didn't like the "Pop" reference or, as I sometimes referred to it, "crunch, crunch".

Get one of those swim tubes at Walmart for a couple of bucks. There are 2 sizes, I got the larger of the two. Lie on the tube on a hard surface with the tube perpendicular to your back. Just lie there for a few minutes (really, minutes, not seconds) and then roll so that the tube moves to the next vertebrae and repeat. You'll feel the vertebrae slowly move without the scary "pop". Then, I lie on the tube with it in the middle of my back (parallel to the spine) and just lie there for several minutes. While in this position, I reach hard with my arms toward the ceiling. This pulls the shoulders forward(up) Then, I just let my shoulders drop. I'll sometimes feel the "pop" with that maneuver. These simple exercises really relieve the muscle spasms that are very localized along the spine.

Well, at least it works for me.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/04/2012 11:55:00

delliottg
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 14:05:48

John,
Thanks for this reminder. One of my ex-colleagues was recommending something very similar, but with some sort of weight lifting foam thingy, I'd forgotten about it. I've got some swim noodles in the garage I've been meaning to re-purpose into lifeline cushions. My sister (an occupational therapist assistant) also recommends the tennis ball in a sock treatment. Sling the sock over your shoulder and adjust until it's on a point of pain, then simply lean back against a wall for a couple of minutes. This works pretty well too, but I'd imagine the swim noodle treatment is easier to do. I also take my walking stick & put it over my shoulders like I'm carrying a load, then swing from side to side at the hips with it. I really wish I had a swimming pool available, I'd like to be able to do some laps to further loosen up my back. Once it gets warm enough (assuming we actually get a summer here), I'll go swim in the river.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 14:27:53

I've been very lucky to have had only sports-related injuries from 45 years of baseball and softball in school and then on teams at various jobs, and scrapes and bruises from 20 years of riding a bicycle to work. I have tried to keep in shape by exercise in the winter and gardening and yard work in the spring, summer and fall. I also get beat up quite a bit since I cut logs from the woods nearby and split logs and carry logs and stack logs. We heat with a wood stove. The big, devastating derecho storm we had this week provided lots of tree debris to clean up around the yard. I had to spend a few hours this week also cutting bamboo trees from the woods and setting up a few dozen tomato stakes in our garden. I get minor injuries all the time from all this action outside the house.

Sailing usually involves moderately hard effort, in my experience, and I guess I like that aspect of skippering a C-25 with hank-on sails and an anchor hoisted aboard by hand out of the mud. I sleep really well after coming back from a few days out sailing.

I read somewhere that people who walk quickly live about 5 to 10 years longer than people who shuffle along slowly. So when I'm tired at the end of the day and need to get one more chore done, I walk quickly to get the tools and do the job, and finally get inside to relax in the cool house with a cold drink.

I'm in my 60's and I try to just keep on truckin'.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 14:30:28

Messing around with spinal disks, I'd err on the side of soft stuff (like a foam or inflated cylinder) rather than something that imparts too much point pressure (like a tennis ball).

Weight has to be a big factor... My friends with back problems carry too much in front. My slim friends have no back problems. I'm precariously somewhere in the middle, and the back is hanging in... I like to remind myself, as I walk through the supermarket, what a 2-lb. package of hamburger looks like. That's just two pounds! Makes getting rid of two pounds look pretty good! Then I imagine what it'd be like to carry ten of them around for the rest of the day...

Exercises that build "core" strength to support the back are supposed to help--I do some.

Edited by - on

Jack Schafer
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 14:42:51

at 75, I am not saying a word, other than 105 degrees is too hot to sail

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Stu Jackson C34
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 14:50:20

I broke my leg skiing in Jan. 2009, then the titanium plate they put in broke in august requiring second surgery. A few years before that I had the dreaded left leg cramp-up eventually traced to vertebrae issues, can't remember the #.

In both cases, both my doctors and the PT said the BEST thing I could do was to go sailing.

I ain't arguin'.

Edited by - on

bear
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 17:00:40

Pushing 70, that step to the upper deck from the settee became a chore. I now use two boat cushions along with the settee cushion to knock the length of that step in half. I have a 4x4 on the dock to cut down the aerobic move of getting aboard. Also making sure boat is tied securely right next to dock when boarding and getting back onto dock {don't ask]

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 20:04:35

Man, you guys are old!

Actually, in the past 6 months I've started having problems with my lower back on the left side. Occasionally if I move wrong it almost takes me to my knees but as soon as I stop the movement and reverse the direction the pain goes away.

I also have an occasional ache in the same area which I attribute to the way I sit in my computer chair.

The thing that worries me the most is when my lower back is aching, if I twist slowly while sitting I feel something pop (like the nerve) over something in my upper pelvis. It almost feels like a bone spur maybe?

The ache doesn't bother me enough to take any medication. It's more of an annoyance.

Other than the above I've noticed over the past couple of summers I cannot tolerate the heat at all if I'm moving around much outside. If it's cool I'm fine but in the heat I get really out of breath if I don't take it slow. I'm about 60 - 70 pounds overweight and I just started trying to work on losing the weight.

Like many of you have mentioned, I'm pretty sore for a day or two after I go sailing.

Edited by - GaryB on 07/04/2012 20:07:59

Stu Jackson C34
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Response Posted - 07/04/2012 : 22:27:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 

1. Man, you guys are old!

2. Like many of you have mentioned, I'm pretty sore for a day or two after I go sailing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1. Naw, you're too young

2. Go sailing more than one day at a time. I refuse to go daysailing again. I only go out for at least one overnight a trip and anchor out. Makes at least two days on the boat. I feel a LOT better when I come home and don't have the one-day-itis.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 02:46:29

Ditto Stu, crawling around on our C250 (inside & out) must have it's positive side.

My issue is overflexing my knees, I'll get into a position and they tell me to ease up. I'll physically hand move my lower leg to straighten it out and all is fine. So now that I know about it, I tend to take precautions and not overextend them in the first place. I consider myself really flexible, my massage therapist confirmed that, but bending the knees on deck under pressure

The ad says it all, a body in motion tends to stay in motion (or was it Newton?)

Paul

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dmpilc
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Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 04:00:33

I think that having a daughter who is an OT, Occupational Therapist, is going to come in handy in a few more years. At 62, I consider myself very fortunate to have very few health issues. Occasionally, I'll have a lower back flare up (L4), usually from bending over and twisting my back in just the wrong way. If bad, it will makre it hard to breathe and bring me to a complete stop until I can gradually work it out. I sometimes can feel a back issue starting to happen, usually when I have not exercised enough, and can deal with it with a few back exercises. Aleve also helps. So does swimming a half mile 3 times a week at the Y.
To help with boarding/exiting the boat, we bought a folding step stool. However, since we've sold the C25 and are back to just the C22, that problem is gone. We do have the folding seat cushions from WM, which make cockpit seating/lounging much more comfortable.

Edited by - dmpilc on 07/05/2012 04:02:16

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