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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

How reliable is your outboard?

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/17/2012 : 13:35:55

I have owned my boat for about 7 years, and I have had more trouble with the outboard than with any of the other systems. It's a 2003 Honda 9.9hp that runs smoothly, efficiently, and quietly - if it starts! I've had the impeller changed each of the first 5 years I owned the boat, and I've had the fuel system cleaned out repeatedly. Months of the engine sitting in the shop and not helping me get in and out of the marina!

My routine:
1. Use fresh gas each time at the beginning of a daysail or overnighter. Afterwords, bring the tank home and pour the gas into the car's fuel system. I use up the gas in the motor and empty the fuel hose after each use also.
2. Flush the cooling system with fresh water (supplied at each slip) the water intake port on the engine block using a hose and an adaptor from the manufacturer.

I use up the fuel within the engine by detaching the fuel line and running the outboard up out of the water with the flush system cooling the engine until the engine runs out of gas.

My Honda outboard has performed perfectly since I started this routine. I've had the same impeller for 3 years now, and the motor starts on the first or second pull each time. No more water in the gasoline! No more annual water pump replacements due to salt or dirt damage to the plastic impeller blades.

I depend on my Honda outboard for safety and convenience, and with this routine I am a happy sailor!!!

JohnP
1978 C25 SR/FK "Gypsy"
Mill Creek off the Magothy River, Chesapeake Bay
Port Captain, northern Chesapeake Bay

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2012 : 14:03:02

Had you asked me this question last year, you'd have gotten an entirely different answer. Since I located and fixed the actual problem (faulty one way valves in the fuel bulb), which was external to the engine, it's been running perfectly.

Now when I went through the phase separation > rusty water/fuel > clogged filters, jets, etc. last year I was pretty miserable. I still believe I did the right thing by changing out all the filters and rebuilding the carb, but I probably didn't have to do it 3x like I did, and the Racor fuel/water separator is probably overkill. However, I don't ever want to be towed in again.

We've probably been sailing 3x as many times this year than last largely because I have faith in my Tohatsu again. It's still only got about 40 hours on it, so it's barely broken in.

Now I'm trying to build faith in my new 5hp outboard for the dinghy. I think it's happier than it was last weekend, but won't hurt to get the tankful of Stabil & Sea Foam treated fuel through the carb. I think maybe it sat for too long with old gas in the carb and gummed up the works a bit.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4029 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2012 : 14:09:49

The engine to me has to be reliable. When you need it to work in a bad situation you don't need problems from it. My Honda is a 97 9.9 and will start on the second pull. I'm mechanical so I do all of my own work. I inherited this motor from the PO 4yrs ago and went over it thoroughly. I replaced the timing belt(showed some wear on the rubber cogs). New wiring harness,plugs,fuel filter,impeller,lower case gear oil,Thermostat,3 pins on the tilt mechanism cleaned the carb, Upgraded the 6 amp charge coil to 12 amps. Purrs like a kitten. I never run the gas out except at the end of the season. My vent on the 6gal tank is always open and I only flush it at the end of the season.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2012 : 15:58:26

I'm with Scott - I rely on the engine when the wind runs out or conditions warrant a hasty retreat. It's gotta work all the time.
Was out yesterday - great wind all the way over to my destination, then the wind died on the way back. I ran the engine for three hours at 3.5 kts. I don't like to drive it hard for long durations. 3.5 is fine although id have saved time at 4.5 kts. Lower speed saves gas too.
There are also times in tight harbors and crowded anchorages where your only option is running the iron genny. If it's not reliable then, you and your 10 closest neighbors are screwed.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2012 : 16:48:56

My merc is faultless, but it's an older 2.2 merc. The mariner 6hp I had was unreliable as heck.

The Johnson 6hp sailmaster I had was faultless.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2012 : 18:39:02

You guys do know that you have to appease the gods when you say things like 'Faultless', 'Purrs like a Kitten' etc.

Paul

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2012 : 20:11:37

I think you spell that K-A-I-B-O-S-H!

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2012 : 20:15:26

I've got a 17 year old two stroke 8hp Mercury that just flat out runs. Starts on the first half pull and purrs like a kitten. I think it would run with a sand/gravel mix in the tank.

Edited by - dlucier on 08/18/2012 06:11:24

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2012 : 03:41:10

<-has made MANY MANY contributions to Poseidon! We're level.

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CarbonSink62
Navigator

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USA
208 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 13:33:13

I just finished repairing the 1981 Evinrude 9.9 that came with Zen Again. It has started 7 out of the last 8 times I've tried and that one failure was from a dead battery (from starting it too many times! Oh, the irony!).

I don't like the noise or mess of a 2 stroke, so I will be upgrading to a 4 stroke soon. That being said, the Evinrude does run strong and starts right up. I can see why they are so popular.

It will very likely be listed in the swap forum later this season. It is the best engine in the world and a proven vetran of many ocean crossings (maybe, I guess).

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 13:44:30

I HATE my engine. 9.9 Merc 4 stroke. Total POS.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 15:00:29

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I HATE my engine. 9.9 Merc 4 stroke.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Love mine.

edit: Outboards live in an unfriendly world: sit for weeks, run for 20 minutes, old gas, corrosive environment, other stressors that our car engines don't deal with. Their failings are usually our fault. My engine failed me two weeks ago, but I hadn't touched the carb since I bought it. Gear and engine oil and sparkplugs is all I ever got around to. A little preventive maintenance would almost certainly have prevented the failure. Runs fine after a carb rebuild. I had noticed that it wasn't idling as smoothly and quietly as it had been, but I put off investigating again this year. Paid the price.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 08/21/2012 16:38:00

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 17:30:32

I owned my boat for 5 years, never put an impeller in it, never brought it to the shop, changed lower unit oil once, never changed the spark plug ............ OK, never did squat to it except the lower unit oil and to run fresh water through it and all the gas out of it each time I used it. Always started lickedy split and ran like a dream. Only problem I ever had was when I first bought the boat and it quit in the inlet. Actuated the kill switch with my thumb a dozen times or so in quick succession and never had another prob. It was an 01 2 cycle Tohastu. I think the reason is because I had to use it a lot being 2 hours from our inlet and I ran the gas out each use.

Edited by - on

putzmeister
Navigator

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100 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 17:44:42

Taking the long view, my first three outboards were 2-strokes, last three have been 4-strokes. Can't ever remember taking a 2-stroke to the shop.

However, I remain convinced that ethanol wreaks havoc with all small engines today - lawnmowers, weed wackers and the like . . .

Edited by - putzmeister on 08/21/2012 17:45:16

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 18:41:26

While the Honda 8 has been running like a champ, it vibrates like hell. It has been so since I got it.

That can't be good for the engine, it makes the tiller buzz/rattle from the vibrations and you cannot stay in the quarterberth when its running - you'll go mad.

I go around the engine frequently checking for loose nuts and bolts, but so far, no problems.

Could I have lost a balance weight on the flywheel, or something on the crankshaft to make it vibrate so? I'm thinking it may be something like a tire balance weight that if it drops off, your wheel vibrates like holy heck.

As I run the RPMs from low, to medium, to high, there are resonances - so I always try to prevent hitting a resonant point when I'm running. But sometimes that can't be helped to achieve a certain speed (following other boats into and out of the harbor).

I have a few neighbors in the river who also have Honda 8's and 9.9's and they don't have the same problem. Their engines indeed seem to purr like kittens.

Any suggestions?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 18:56:49

Just googled the issue and LO! this Forum had a discussion back in 2008 about Hondas and Yamahas and Tohatsus - good to know nothing changes much...
The topic was entitled: "Honda vs. Yamaha outboards?"
The topic of the tiller vibrating noisily was covered then too. Must be a part of the design. I'd still like to find a way to quell the vibes - I can't just keep my hand on the tiller for hour after hour... there's gotta be a better way.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 19:51:16

Vibration commonly comes from misfiring and pre-ignition (knock). Misfiring can come from fouled or improperly gapped plugs, incorrect ignition timing, or carb mixture problems. How about that for limiting the cause.

There can be other causes for a miss and other causes for vibration, but those are the most common and addressable. Timing and spark strength are a challenge without experience and tools, although a weak spark is pretty uncommon with electronic ignition. Carb problems are less likely to produce the same symptoms as the it progresses through different jets with throttle changes. The engine is telling you something needs to be done if it vibrates more than similar engines. Pay now or get stranded someday and pay later like me. I promise to be more conscientious about my engine maintenance in the future, I promise, I promise……..

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 03:45:22

John,

You have been out on my boat some time ago. I have a 2006 Honda 9.9. It has been reliable ever since I bought it but the PO had a 1994 Honda that was unreliable and I replaced it during the first few months I owned the boat. In discussing the old outboard with the marina mechanic that had maintained it in the past, he indicated that Honda had some issues with some of the older Hondas that was sort of a hit and miss affair with the electronics being the culprit. The outboard would sometimes start fine but then trying to restart after sailing, it would not start. Sometimes, it would not restart from the get go. The mechanic tried servicing it but he then indicated he would have to tear it down and start replacing the electronics and thought rather than put the money into chasing an electrical issue, I may want to consider buying a new outboard. He had tried doing all the things short of tearing down the outboard and I on my end flushed out the fuel tank and nothing seemed to improve it's reliability. That is when I through in the towel and bought the 2006 Honda and it has performed flawlessly.

I add either Startron or Stabil with each fill up of the 3 gallon gas tank that came with the new outboard. I got rid of the old 6 gallon tank when I sokld the old outbaord and I also bought a new Honda 6 gallon tank and hose for those times when making a big trip down the river but I generally always use the 3 gallon tank and will fill up once a month or so. I frequently sail but only use the outboard mainly to get in and out of the marina with only occasional heavy use and then fill up the gas tank more frequently. I use to run the fuel dry in the outboard each time I returned to the dock but after discussions on this forum, I was convinced that since I frequently use the outboard, there was more chance of water forming in the drained out fuel lines than leaving it in and so for the past several years, I immediately turn off the outboard as I come adjacent to the dock. In winter, when I sail less frequently, I then may run the outboard dry depending on potential for frequently sailing or not for a week or two. Once again, my outboard has run flawlessly...never misses a beat and this 2006 has no manual choke. As far as maintenance, I just changed the impeller for the first time this past winter but I use my boat in freshwater and so little chance of sea crust forming. I change the oil in the Fall by sucking it out of the dipstick using a vacuum pump (mechanic's suggestion). I have never had the outboard in to a mechanic for servicing. I change the oil every year but the oil filter every other year, the gas filter I think I have been changing that each year in the Fall along with the two spark plugs but I may skip changing the spark plugs each eyar base again on previous postings I recall from others and their mtn practices. The lower end, I discussed in an earlier posting (months ago) how I do that at the dock (every other year). My outboard has never been off the motor bracket ! But as some had mentioned months ago, I should probably take off the prop and grease that area to ensure it can always be taken off easily and does not become a problem later on with removal. Hope the above does not put a jinx on it's flawless performance !

Edited by - OLarryR on 08/22/2012 03:56:20

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4029 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 05:03:41

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">While the Honda 8 has been running like a champ, it vibrates like hell. It has been so since I got it.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bent blade on the prop? Busted engine mount or the rubber cushion disintegrated?
As to the tiller buzz/rattle, Remove the rubber throttle handle and grease the inside and the outside of the tiller where the throttle handle rotates on. This is something that is a maintenance item but is never done. Easy to do by removing the one bolt on the end of the handle with a deep socket. Worked for me.

Edited by - islander on 08/22/2012 05:22:16

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 09:10:59

Bruce,

I have a similar issue but it's not a biggy in that at a little bit above slow speed, the handle vibrates and makes noise but if the handle is held or I sort of lean it against a transom stanchion, then it does not make the vibration noise. At higher speeds, the noise is not present. My thought was that if I had one of those squichy type soft rubber balls attached to the stanchion, then leaning the handle against that would solve the issue. Definitely a bent prop, etc could cause the vibration but if it is just a small vibration/noise, it is likely part of the design...just a little bit of handle movement at a speed just above slow speed that goes away at slower or faster speeds.

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