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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Lowering the mast for the first time

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AkaBud
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/20/2012 : 16:52:57

I need to lower the mast to install a halyard clip for the new furler.
I searched and found lot of posts about contraptions to make it easier short handed. But I don’t plan to do this often so don’t want to build anything I don’t absolutely need.
I plan to have 3 or 4 guys. I want to lower it forward so I can work on it from the dock.

Here’s my plan.
Support mast fore and aft with halyards.
Unhook rear lower stays and loosen upper stays.
Unhook furler and move it aft.
Unhook back stay and attach main sheet to it.
Have two guys stabilize mast with lower stays and lower it.

It’s a standard rig. Does anybody know what it weighs?
Will the mainsheet traveler be strong enough to hold it?

While it’s down I want to reverse the windex. It’s mounted forward of the mast and very hard to see. Any idea what I might need to do this? I have no idea how it’s mounted.

Other jobs are new spreader boots, new halyards and replace light bulbs.

Does this sound like a good plan?
Is there any thing else I should do when it’s down?

Bud
83 C-25 SR/FK 3828

Edited by - on

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2012 : 18:00:36

DOH, i just put up my mast to find the windex is reversed! It was correct last year. Have some tef-gel handy if your lucky enough to unscrew the SS from the aluminum head. Check out my thread with LED strip lighting for bulb replacement. Down can be easy. I did mine with a 5:1 purchase between bow and a jib halyard on a very calm day. With this kind of leverage, i just dropped aft and pulled hard toward the end, but DID have somebody catch the mast to settle it to the stern. Watch out for the mast step lag screws that can pull out (maybe have a third body to watch that issue. While it is down, replace your cast spreader tube mounts, if you have them, with SS. You'll need a grinder or lots of sand paper, some PVC pipes and patience.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 03:41:24

I would loosen the forward midstays.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 04:32:16

I've never done a C25 - just my C250. But I have a few general comments. DISCLAIMER: These comments represent my own limited experience and a few theoretical calculations. You assume all responsibility for anything you do with your own boat.

If you work out the force vectors on the halyard at different mast positions, you'll see that the tension on the halyard goes to infinity if both the mast and halyard are near parallel (horizontal). That's why people usually use a gin pole or elevated roller on a trailer (usually with the C250), or A-frame (usually with the C25). These options give a vertical component to the force vectors that prevents the tension from exceeding the breaking tension of the hoisting halyard. Otherwise you may risk a catastrophic failure of your halyard or its point of attachment.

You might be able to lower/raise the mast without this if you have your 3 or 4 guys be sure to adequately support the mast as it approaches horizontal. It's that last several feet that is critical, because that's when your halyard is not going to have the appropriate angle to prevent the mast from free-falling. So you've got to make sure your guys stay under the mast and don't bail out on you. This is rather dangerous because being under the mast is not a pleasant (or safe) place to be if things start going wrong.

For these reasons, my general advice is to follow the well-documented designs for an A-frame to lower your mast. Maybe someone here has one you can borrow.

Edited by - TakeFive on 08/21/2012 04:33:28

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4029 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 05:46:17

If I was to do this in my slip I would turn the boat around and lower the mast aft. I used my mainsail sheet without any problems. You can use the cam to stop the decent any time to check to make sure nothing is binding. I just wouldn't want to put that much force on an angle on the traveler bar. I doubt it would pull out but it might loosen it and to tighten it is not an easy task. In the water you run the risk of the boat rocking with four guys moving around. Even a small amount can send the mast swaying side to side risking damage to the mast step.The mast isn't that heavy, Around 65-80lbs. I built a crude a frame out of 2x4s. It doesn't have to be pretty just functional.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 07:23:12

I agree with the suggestion to lower the mast aft. If you have 3-4 reasonably fit men to help, you can raise it or lower it without using an A-frame or similar device. I put 2 men on the coach roof and one in the cockpit. All of them should stand to the side of the mast while it is being lowered, not under it, and I always told them that they should just let it drop if it gets away from them (although I never had that happen). Don't try to catch it. I attached a length of line to the forestay, to lengthen it, and to use as a safety line. Then I wrapped that line around the bow pulpit twice. A volunteer held that line while the mast was being lowered, easing it gradually to let the mast down. The two on the coach roof walked the mast down gradually. The guy in the cockpit reached up and held the mast while one of the others climbed down from the coach roof into the cockpit to help hold it. The other guy on the coach roof unscrewed the bolt at the base of the mast while sitting on the end of the mast, to keep it from rising when the bolt was removed. Then, all 3 lifted the mast and moved it forward, laying the ends on the bow and stern rails. (You should wrap an old piece of carpet around each rail to protect the rails from scratches.)

You can raise it using the same procedure in reverse, but whenever raising the mast you always have to be very careful to make sure all the turnbuckles are aligned as the mast is raised. If one gets sideways, there is a considerable risk the stay or it's hardware will get bent, and have to be replaced.

Edited by - on

vipermagic
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 07:25:06

I've lowered my mast 6-8 times this summer (my first summer with this boat) for various reasons, without any trouble once we got the hang of it. We always go aft. Here's what we do:

I hook a spare fiddle block up to where the jib clips in, and a block up to the jib halyard. Halyard is tied off at the mast. I run a line through these, back through the jib fairlead and to a winch. This is a safety line, and whoever is in control of it, controls how fast the mast comes down. 1 or 2 guys hold the mast, mainly to keep it from going side-to-side. Unhook forward lowers, loosen uppers. Unhook forestay. Mastmen give the mast a push to get it coming down, and the trimmer feeds the line through so the mast lowers quickly, but safely.

We might have to disconnect the uppers completely, I honestly can't remember. Its not a big deal to stop and do it if you have to.

The mast doesn't really weigh that much, its not a big deal for the mastman to manhandle it as the safety line loses effectiveness, and hold it up while someone undoes the step bolt

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 08:14:44

My process for lowering the mast aft.

• Clear deck and cockpit of all tripping hazards.
• Measure and record tension of all stays and shrouds.
• Remove the boom.
• Disconnect all electrical connections.
• Pull any lines led to the mast (halyards, reefing lines, etc.) forward, coil them and secure them to the mast.
• Loosen stays and rear shrouds 5 turns.
• Loosen backstay 5 turns.
• Secure the jib halyard forward as a spare forestay.
• Loosen and release the forestay and forward shrouds.
• Attach an extra line to end of forestay to assist with lowering.
• Confirm mast step bolt can be easily removed (not frozen).
• With one person easing the forestay line (standing on the slip deck, not the boat), one person standing on roof and a third in the cockpit, slowly lower the mast. If you do not have a mast crutch be sure the mast will not crush your roof when lowered beyond horizontal. The pushpit is lower than the roof. The two people in the cockpit will need to support the mast above horizontal until the mast step bolt can be removed by either the person who eased the forestay or a 4th person. The roof person will move to the cockpit as the mast lowers.
• Once the bolt is removed, walk the mast forward so it can be supported by the pulpit and pushpit. Good idea to lash it to each.
• Raising it is essentially a reverse of this process.

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 08/21/2012 13:48:11

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 08:39:31

I've dropped the mast a few times singlehanded with an A-frame and no helpers. Tedious but straightforward.

With 4 strong guys it should be a snap! Joe's routine looks perfect.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 08:56:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 I've never done a C25 - just my C250. But I have a few general comments. DISCLAIMER: These comments represent my own limited experience and a few theoretical calculations. You assume all responsibility for anything you do with your own boat.

If you work out the force vectors on the halyard at different mast positions, you'll see that the tension on the halyard goes to infinity if both the mast and halyard are near parallel (horizontal). That's why people usually use a gin pole or elevated roller on a trailer (usually with the C250), or A-frame (usually with the C25). These options give a vertical component to the force vectors that prevents the tension from exceeding the breaking tension of the hoisting halyard. Otherwise you may risk a catastrophic failure of your halyard or its point of attachment.

You might be able to lower/raise the mast without this if you have your 3 or 4 guys be sure to adequately support the mast as it approaches horizontal. It's that last several feet that is critical, because that's when your halyard is not going to have the appropriate angle to prevent the mast from free-falling. So you've got to make sure your guys stay under the mast and don't bail out on you. This is rather dangerous because being under the mast is not a pleasant (or safe) place to be if things start going wrong.

For these reasons, my general advice is to follow the well-documented designs for an A-frame to lower your mast. Maybe someone here has one you can borrow.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">What all this means in non-engineer English is that the stick gets heavy as hell as it gets lower and your "3 or 4 guys" may find it impossible to hold it and could result in big, bad boo-boos to the mast, the guys, the boat or all of the above. Make the gin pole.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 09:23:39

Well, several sailors on this Forum have dropped the mast with one or two helpers and say it's safe and simple.

When I use my A-frame all by myself, I catch the mast while standing in the cockpit to lower it the last 5 feet. It's about half the weight you have to support at that moment - 30 to 50 pounds maybe.
The other half is supported by the mast step until the bolt is released.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 09:33:25

Making an a-frame is rather easy and once you have it, you won't hesitate to lower the mast for any problem you might encounter.
Parts needed are some 1" emt conduit, bolts, nuts, washers, an eye bolt, some 3/8" line and a block at the stem fitting. Tools needed are a hacksaw, vice, drill and file.

If you have searched the forum you probably came across my videos but I'll link them anyway. You won't need all the parts I use, I use them to speed up the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLxujYRsMQ& feature=channel& list=UL

Edited by - on

AkaBud
1st Mate

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27 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 09:45:51

Thanks everyone. Lots of good advise here.
I've line up three volenteers to help. I think that's more than enough.
Lowering it aft is probably a better way to go.
We're going to start early Sat and I hope to have it done and back up in a few hours.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2012 : 13:08:17

Make DavyJ's A-frame out of conduit, as well as the 2 short pieces for the forward lower deck eyebolts. I've done one out of wood 2x4's and one out of the conduit and can attest that the conduit method is by far superior, not to mention lighter and easier to store later! You won't regret it.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2012 : 11:52:20

I built an A-frame several years ago and dropped my mast by myself with a 10 know crosswind and had no problems coming down or going back up.

When I put the furler on last summer a halyard got tangled when we were going back up with the mast and the rigger finally got tired of holding the mast part of the way up by himself and just shoved it up on his own once I got the halyard untangled.

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.