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To buy the trailer or not???

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 10:16:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by szymek
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector

Syzmek - can you tell us who teh custom shop you are thinking of is?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's a small shop by Chatham that has been in business for 30 years - building all kinds of boat trailers.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't know them then. Did you call Marine Cradle shop? If their prices are reasonable, I would be able to pick up the trailer and bring it as far as Pickering for you. Then you just have to drive across Toronto for it.

http://www.cradleridetrailers.com/Products.page?CategoryID=5154&CurrentPage=1&ItemID=21107
http://www.cradleridetrailers.com/Sailboat-specifications.page

These guys happened upon us as we were pulling Iris to Lake Ontario this spring, and offered help and assistance with issues we were having (bow stop was positioned wrong). Good people.

I know a few people with trailers if you need to borrow one for a one-off trip like that.

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2012 : 10:57:40

Prospector: I've contacted them... They gave me a quote for P-6000 model which in fact i think was replaced by P-7000 as they have the same specs. The quote was $5850 plus tax, so all in $6610 which is outside of my budget. But based on this thread I would question their trailers as well. They use 5x3 steel tubing (which is comparable to 6"x2" which most folks here said is not enough)and only 15" class "D" tires. Also that model only has 4 posts as well.

This became bit more complicated than I ever anticipated or maybe it's being over complicated. I don't know anymore. My hole idea behind getting the trailer is to move it to Georgian Bay next year and possibly leave it on the hard (at my family's farm) in 2014 as I might not be able to sail that year due to other plans for that summer. That's why i figured if I find something at reasonable price, it will pay for itself over the next 2 years. So I wasn't able to find anything used that was sufficient for my C25... and custom one that I found is not getting good feebback here - I can't afford to invest 4k into a trailer that won't be usable or not safe to use.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2012 : 16:14:43

My fin keel trailer was built by Trail-Rite for Catalina Yachts. Based on published specs, a fin keel C-25 has approx. 400 lbs more weight in her keel than a swinger. For what it's worth, my trailer handled the swing keel C-25 just fine. however, I never had to tow her very far. Max was about 15 miles.
BTW, it is still available, for $2,500. If you plan to keep the boat for 3 more years and can save $900/yr on storage with a trailer, you've covered the cost of mine, excluding travel costs to pick it up.

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2012 : 19:40:04

David... if you were just closer... but with 1200 km each way (fuel cost), taxes at the border and federal inspection which is required for importing (another $200). It's just not cost effective. Finding a good quality trailer turned out to be tough - especially up here in Canada.

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 07:16:35

I've spent another year searching for used trailer without any luck. I found 1 that I thought I could work with, but when contacted the owner it was sold. Honestly up here in Canada it's next to impossible to find used sailboat trailer.

I had some changes in my life (baby this summer) and based on how this summer has gone by, I know I won't be able to sail much next year. So I contemplated 2 options:
1. sell the boat
2. buy trailer and keep her home for next season (free storage)

After a lot of discussion with the wife we decided to keep the boat (option 2), as if I sell her now, It will be much more difficult to get back into sailing in near future. Seems like reasonable market value for C25 around here is 6k to 8k. I would never sell my boat for that amount as I've invested over 7k in last 3 years - i can honestly say that my C25 is one of best condition C25 in the area. I've spend a lot of time sailing and working on her for last 5 years. Also it's bit special for me as I even proposed to now my wife while sailing.

So I'm in the process of getting a trailer made. In the photo gallery i found sketch of the the c25/27 cradle. Which is great. But I would like to add a third set of posts in the middle. Can anyone with a trailer with 6 pots give me the measurements for the middle posts.

Edited by - szymek on 08/21/2013 07:18:28

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 09:57:53

I would assume the shores of the great lakes would be crawling with trailers because our size boats should be pulled for winter.

Edited by - on

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 10:15:00

Great choice to keep your boat. I, on the other hand, have done very little to mine and she is looking more and more like the "Wanderer" in the movie, Capt. Ron........ But she sure is purty to me and I love sailing her....

Aaaaarrrgggghhhhhhh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8alNxLjCBJc

Edited by - ftworthsailor on 08/21/2013 10:15:36

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 10:40:17

I've spent first 3 years strictly sailing and not even a single upgrade. In last 2 years I've split sailing and working on the boat 50/50. Some upgrades include:
- Brand new loose footed main with full battens (in fact still in the bag)
- Brand new 150% Genoa
- upgrade to Harken Roller furler
- stereo install with custom speaker boxes
- Brand new Tohatsu 9.8 (ultra long shaft)
- quite big fiberglass repair at the companion way
- dodger install
- and the list goes on

And i still have list to do in new future:
- Change to LED lighting with custom wood boxes
- change wiring through mast
- and the list goes on.

So if I list my boat no one will buy it other than me! haha. And the memories i have on this boat are priceless!

But back to my question... if anyone can give me heigh of the middle set of posts on the trailer I would really appreciate it.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 10:40:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 I would assume the shores of the great lakes would be crawling with trailers because our size boats should be pulled for winter.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

On the Great Lakes, we use these...

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 10:53:16

Yes... lot's of smaller boat on trailers etc.... not many fixed keel boat trailers around.

But given I don't want to sell my boat and paying for storage for next winter/summer/winter nearly covers the cost of trailer. And it will give me flexibility to take it to Georgian Bay for one season. -) Few people already told me "Just sell the darn thing - you have kid now so forget about sailing". Well I hope we'll sail together - and buying a boat in couple years will most likely be out of budget. So might as well keep what I have, which i know is in great condition and has been looked after quite well.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 11:19:49

Looking at pictures of my old trailer, it looks like the center posts are the same height as the fore and aft posts. All six have adjustable pads so they can be positioned properly to support the boat. If you are concerned that they would be too tall, then drop back 2" and you should be okay.

Edited by - on

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 11:40:03

I will probably just sell her and buy another, when the ashtrays are full. Probably one of those that you folks have spend countless hours and dollars on to put back in pristine condition.........and give me a great deal, too.

Edited by - ftworthsailor on 08/21/2013 11:42:31

TEM58
Navigator

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USA
113 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 11:58:56

If it helps at all, there's a nice close up pic of the supports.

http://sailingtexas.com/201301/scatalina25322.html

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2013 : 15:02:42

Don, our club used to receive copies of http://www.sailingbreezes.com/Sailing_Breezes_Current/Waterfront/waterfro.htm in hardcopy. I don't know if they still publish hard copy or not. Anyway it is mostlyGreat Lakes boats, (it seems like it used to be called Northern Breezes) and many of the boats were on trailers. I looked at a Tartan 28 and a J 30 which were both on trailers. Are you sure its not just we po folk who use cradles? lol I always liked the pulp mag because it had LOTS of boats listed by size.

My first boat was a Tanzer 16 and I still see them for sale occasionally on Northern Breezes and it makes me smile.

Here is an Oday with a trailer, from the price it is one of those deals where the boat is free.
25 O'Day, Trlr, 4 Mrc, Reduced 75 $2,500 Fleet Sails
it is listed here
http://www.sailingbreezes.com/Sailing_Breezes_Current/Multilist/multilis.htm
I am not sure the difference in the classified pages.

Edited by - pastmember on 08/21/2013 15:20:22

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2013 : 08:43:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Don, our club used to receive copies of Sailing Breezes...Anyway it is mostly Great Lakes boats, (it seems like it used to be called Northern Breezes) and many of the boats were on trailers. I looked at a Tartan 28 and a J 30 which were both on trailers. Are you sure its not just we po folk who use cradles? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank,

I think a more accurate description of the boats for sale in the Sailing Breezes classifieds is that they are mostly Great Lakes state's boats, not necessarily Great Lakes boats as the brokerages for the smaller boat listings appear to be well inland on smaller lakes. Your earlier post referenced the Great Lakes shores, which is somewhat different than inland lakes.

As to us poor folks using cradles, I think a more accurate term would be frugal. I'm fortunate in that in my venue I have the option of either trailering or cradling in a boatyard, and as my photo above shows, I do the latter. When season's end approaches, I pay the boatyard around $350.00, then put my boat in one of their haulout slips and when I return in a day or so, my freshly powerwashed boat is sitting nicely in her cradle. After the Spring prep, I let the boatyard know I'm ready to launch and they put it in the water. In addition, they store my cradle year round so no need for me to do anything. I figure that $350.00 I pay every winter probably saves me untold dollars in direct and indirect costs over trailering.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2013 : 09:09:41

Bottom work is a lot easier on a cradle (or stands) than on a trailer.

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2013 : 15:00:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
they store my cradle year round so no need for me to do anything. I figure that $350.00 I pay every winter probably saves me untold dollars in direct and indirect costs over trailering.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow that is really low price. At my marina i pay 1250 for winter storage, and then 190 for storage of cradle during the summer on top of the summer marina fees.

The key reason why I justified to get a trailer is that I won't be sailing next year. Storing the boat winter/summer/winter would cost me $3500. This nearly covers cost of the trailer - So if I have free storage the cost of the trailer will be offset.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2013 : 18:30:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by szymek
 At my marina i pay 1250 for winter storage, and then 190 for storage of cradle during the summer on top of the summer marina fees.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow, $1,440.00 in storage fees! I don't even want to ask what your summer slip fees run. I now understand your want of a trailer.

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2013 : 19:46:39

Don, to be exact:

Winter: $1209
Summer Cradle: $198
Summer: $2171
Summer Land only: $983

So normally year round comes up to $3578.

So in my situation now if I was to store the boat on land for winter/summer/winter I would be looking at $3401.

That's why I prefer to invest money into the trailer. :-)

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2013 : 21:22:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by szymek
I have two options that are at reasonable cost:
1. Excalibur-trailers ($4550 all in): galvanized steel, tandem 3500 axles, electric brakes on one axle, 6 bunks, bow stop
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I hope this won't start a flame war, but I have very strong opinions on what constitutes "acceptable" components for a C-25 trailer.

1. Hot dip galvanized-Good! It's the only way to go if the trailer will be used to launch in salt water. If you can afford it, put a coat of paint over the galvanizing.

2. 3500# axles: NO NO NO NO NO! These ARE NOT adequate for a Catalina 25, especially if the boat is a post 1985 Mark III or Mark IV! You need to specify the next larger size axle, which is 5200# or 5500# (depending on manufacturer), and Load Range "E" radial tires, NOT bias ply "C" or "D" range, which is what a low-ball trailer builder will give you to save a few bucks on his cost.

3. Electric Brakes: NO! You can't dunk electric brake components in salt water, for crying out loud! This trailer is for hauling a BOAT, not a load of firewood or livestock on dry land! Boat trailer brakes are usually "hydraulic-surge" type. The actuator is a sliding piston and master cylinder built into the coupler that sends pressurized brake fluid to the wheel brakes when you step on the tow vehicle's brakes; the trailer's momentum causes it to "surge" forward, compressing that master cylinder in the hitch coupler: no electricity involved anywhere. You also want to specify all-aluminun wheel cylinders or calipers. These have no rust-prone steel parts inside them, which helps prevent corrosion caused brake seizures, which often escalate into full blown brake fires fed by overheated wheel bearing grease. I've had a couple of these and they're no fun to fix by the side of the highway somewhere, especially with your 5500# boat sitting on the trailer.

4. Brakes on one axle or both? This depends a lot on where you will register the trailer. Some jurisdictions require brakes on all trailer wheels, others don't. Another factor is your tow vehicle being only a 1/2 ton pickup. I would hesitate to haul a C-25 on a high speed motorway with anything less than a 3/4 ton pickup truck or big SUV (Chevy Suburban, Ford Excursion, etc). The issue is that if you are tooling along at 90 km/h or more and some sudden traffic glitch happens close ahead of you, what is going to happen if you have to hit the brakes really hard? Does your tow vehicle have enough brake capacity (and sheer weight) to stop in time, and in a straight line, without jack knifing or exceeding the heat capacity of the brake linings? I have had to make a couple of panic stops on I-5 in heavy traffic in the Portland and Seattle urban areas, whilst towing my C-25, and my truck is a Dodge 2500 Ram pickup with a Cummins Diesel and a 5-speed manual gearbox. It has substantially more weight than a 1/2 ton, to resist jack knifing, and much heavier duty brakes. IMO, diesel pickups are the safest tow vehicle for a heavy boat or RV trailer of any kind, if you can afford the tarrif. They are especially nice on long steep downgrades where the engine's 18:1 compression ratio will help you keep the load from accelerating out of control without having to use the brakes very much.

5. Bunks or Rollers? Rollers make it easier to get the boat on and off the trailer, especially on ramps that aren't sloped as much as you would like. 15% is ideal, but many ramps are sloped as little as 10%, which makes it very difficult to launch or retrieve without submerging your tow vehicle right up to the door sills. Rollers also last a lot longer then wood bunk boards if you are just careful to rinse them thoroughly after a dunking in salt water. The rollers on Quiet Time's trailer are the originals from when the trailer was built in 1986, and that's WAY longer than bunk boards will last. Rollers will add a several hundred to the cost, but I think they're worth it.

Sorry to be so excitable about these issues, but in the last 25 years I have towed 5 different sailboats (including 2 Catalina 25's) over enough badly deteriorated, pothole-laden pavement, and had to make enough emergency roadside stops for blown tires and brake fires, to realize the importance and value of making the axles, brakes, springs, and tires heavier duty than the minimums required by law. And never forget that ALL production Catalina 25's weigh more than the "official" published weight in the owner's manual. Quiet Time weighs close to 5900# with all tanks filled, food and other consumables for a two week cruise aboard, dual batteries, tools, spares parts, and cruising gear. That's 7900# on the trailer, or 400# more than the maximum rated carrying capacity if I had 3500# axles on the trailer.

Don't lowball your trailer components and risk damaging or totaling your boat (or maybe worse) in an accident that would not have happened at all if the trailer was over-built a little instead of barely adequate to meet a generic weight classification.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2013 : 03:17:47

Nice to know what your boat weighs ready for a trip over the highway. Since we are only 5 hulls apart I would assume our boats would be similar in weight without the extra gear on-board.

I agree with everything you say Larry if you're going to tow long distances on a regular basis and/or in hilly to mountainous terrain with all tanks filled, food, and other consumables for a two week cruise aboard, dual batteries, tools, spares parts, and cruising gear.

A lot of us don't tow long distances on a regular basis and only tow once or twice a year from the marina to a winter storage facility. I would expect that when most of us are moving from marina to storage we DON'T have "all tanks filled, food and other consumables for a two week cruise aboard, dual batteries, tools, spares parts, and cruising gear" which would most likely get us below the 7000#'s the trailer is rated for.

I haven't trailered my boat yet even though I've had a trailer for 3 or 4 years but will be doing so around Thanksgiving and will move back to the marina in the spring. My plan is to more or less empty the boat of all non-essential gear and make sure the tanks are empty for the very reasons you mention. Based on the weight of your rig this should assure that I'm below the maximum rating for my trailer and provide a margin of safety. I plan to hit a local truck stop that has a scale before I go too far so I know exactly what weight I'm dealing with.

I will be moving the boat less than 50 miles over dead flat ground at 55 mph or less and will do so late at night or early in the morning, on a weekend, over back roads so I can avoid any heavy traffic. This won't guarantee that an emergency stop situation won't happen but should drastically reduce the odds.

I will be doing all of the above with a 2010 Ford F150 Supercrew with a HD towing package and the boat will be on a trailer with a brand new coupler and brand new galvanize coated disk brakes.

With the above precautions and 1000's of miles under my belt towing everything from a 16' Hobie Cat to 18,000 pound bulldozers over the open highway and in rush hour traffic on the freeway I feel I will be within my abilities and the limits of the equipment I will be using to make the move. If I start the move and feel ANYTHING is sketchy or unsafe (I will know within a mile or two of the marina) I will turn around and drop the boat and trailer off at the marina until I can find someone with a larger tow vehicle. If I had ANY less towing experience or were going any farther I would NOT attempt to move the boat. I would never attempt to make a long distance trip with the above setup.

Honestly, even with a 3/4 ton pickup I don't believe this is something that a person with little to no experience towing trailers should think about trying. This is too much weight for a "newbie" to be moving around.

If I sound over-confident or if I'm not thinking clearly please do not hesitate to tell me so. I'd rather get chastised here than do something unsafe on the highway.

FYI... As mentioned above I plan to weigh boat and trailer shortly after I leave the marina. I'm thinking about weighing the rig just before launching too. Since my boat has apparently lived most of it's life in the water it will be interesting to see how much weight it loses sitting on the trailer for 4 - 6 months.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2013 : 18:30:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 A lot of us don't tow long distances on a regular basis and only tow once or twice a year from the marina to a winter storage facility. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is the dilemma faced by every boater (power or sail) who bought a boat that didn't come with a trailer: "Can I get away with a light-duty trailer for the twice a year trip between storage yard and berth, or would I be better served to get a do-anything, go-anywhere trailer?". These are horrible decisions to make: here in Sacramento, the local shop that built the trailer for Quiet Time quoted a friend of mine a price of $4800 for a 7500 pound capacity Catalina 25 "yard" trailer - minimal brakes, bunks instead of rollers, paint instead of full hot-dip galvanizing. At the other extreme, ugrading all of the hardware to raise the rated capacity to 10,400#, rollers instead of bunks, dual-axle non-corrosive disc brakes, and galvanized instead of painted, almost DOUBLED the price of the trailer to $8500. The boat this friend was contemplating was a 1984 Mark II swing keel standard rig, not a very expensive or rare model, so the high end trailer would have actually cost $500 more than the asking price of the boat.

Because of the lack of a trailer, and the huge expense of getting new ones made, I persuaded him to pass on that boat and only inquire on ads for boats with trailers.

Edited by - on

szymek
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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2013 : 22:22:38

Thanks for all the info Larry. I agree with all that you said.

I believe Trail Rite was the original builder for many C25. Most of those trailers seem to be with 3500 axles. I also called couple bigger shops in my area and every single shop recommended tandem 3500 axles for our C25. Even one of the most respected shops in my area that has built many trailers for c25 also builds them with 3500 axles - go figure.

But for my trailer i went with recommendation on this thread and I went with 5200 axles.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 09/14/2013 : 09:18:19

The only downside to heavier axles/springs is a tiny decrease in milage and upfront costs, so what ever makes you most comfortable is the way to go. I will stick to 3500# axles since mine are 30 years old and still in pretty good shape. That is satisfactory performance from my perspective.

Edited by - on

GaryB
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4304 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2013 : 13:42:38

While I realize you want to have some cushion below max rated weight, if you go with 5000# axles the ride would be a lot stiffer and I've wondered if there might be more likely-hood of damaging the boat in some way if you hit a pothole?

Edited by - on

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