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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

2 boats viewed in Southern CA

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JimB517
Past Commodore

Member Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/20/2003 : 00:26:01

Hi, 2 boats down and 1 to go (tomorrow). Today's boat was in very nice condition.

1977 Catalina 25 pop-top, fin keel
traditional interior (what we prefer over the dinette)
cockpit table that converts to queen size bed in the salon
propane stove for galley, plus propane barbeque
porti-potty (what we prefer)

keel bolts all looked good (leave that to the survey)
new stainless standing rigging in 2002, tuning seemed fine.
bottom ground down and 4 coats of epoxy in 2000 (owner had extensive photos of this big project)
8 HP Honda long shaft 4 stroke (4 years old) - started on the 2nd pull!
new stainless, oversized motor mount (rated for 15 HP)
new rudder, oversize pintles and gudgeons - like new
chainplates replaced in 2001
no signs of leaks and not a drop of water in the boat
owner has new seals for the windows which have not been installed yet.
2 Danforth anchors, chain and 200 ft 3/8 line (each)
new pulpit in 2001
Shaffer roller furling
5 sails - 110, 135 and 150 genoa, spinnaker and pole. (The 135 is on the roller)
new main from North sails in 1997
all sails looked in good to excellent condition
twin headstays
adjustable backstay
all running rigging looks new (no more than 1 to 2 years old)
2 speed self tailing winches (in addition to cabintop winches)
all lines led aft, plenty of jam cleats, etc.
gel type group 27 house batteries - like new condition
battery charger / shore power

little vinyl tent from Catalina Direct that goes over the pop-top, in perfect condition.

VHF
GPS
Stereo
knotmeter
tiller pilot (does work)
depthfinder (does not work)
Man overboard pole and horseshoe float

only defects I noted were:

the ORIGINAL salon cushions are in terrible condition (V Berth is OK and the cockpit cushions are OK).

brand new heavy duty motor mount is on the PORT side

through hulls are GATE valves (although they worked and had very little corrosion)

owner will sail with me to deliver to San Diego.

Asking $6K

Seems like a bargin!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 01:10:12

Without seeing this boat, the list seems impressive.

Recent bottom job, newer motor, NEW rigging, new motor mount, new rudder, new chainplates, roller furling, newer main, newer running rigging, and 2 speed self tailing winches. Just these items alone probably cost $6,000-$7,000.

As far as the defects you listed, I wouldn't be too concerned about the port side motor mount since this really isn't that big of an issue(same as my boat). The gate valves are something to note, but keep in mind that they've probably been on this boat for a very long time without incident. And I wouldn't worry about the cushions since these aren't structural or safety related, and besides if you can sew, you can make slip covers for them.

On top of all this, the owner is going to throw in a sailing lesson by bringing you and the boat to San Diego. How firm on the price is he?

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 12:50:49

The current owner has bought a used power boat - 25 foot Tollycraft. He needs his Catalina 25 out of the slip ASAP. He'd would probably accept $5500 but my wife and I thought that we would make his help on the delivery to San Diego a condition of the sale and offer full price. He offered to deliver Long Beach to Mission Bay or anywhere we wanted. He told me he paid $6K four years ago and obviously put so much work into the boat.

The boat has never been listed for sale, the broker selling the Tollycraft called me on a different boat and offered me a chance to see this Cat 25.

I liked the owners very much and we both worked for Southern California Gas Company so we knew a lot of people in common.

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1595 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 12:52:48

That sounds like a very good deal. I agree with the above post. Sounds like all the toys are already there. You will love the roller furling. Does the boat sit level in the water with the port hung engine (Mast vertical). If it does I would live with it.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 12:55:35

The port-side mounting of the outboard on C-25's is a common mistake made by former C-22 owners who assume their new boat is supposed to have the motor on the same side as it was on their C-22; "Quiet Time" came to me this way.. The first time I saw my boat in the water, the improper location of the outboard on the port side was obvious: the boat was listing 4 or 5 degrees to port just sitting at the dock, and the sailing characteristics on Port tack were markedly different than on Starboard tack, due to the weight imbalance. She sailed much better on Port tack, as that 110# engine was like having another crew sitting on that side. Even after moving the motor to the starboard side, and putting in a second battery on the starboard side aft, she STILL lists a little to port, proving just how heavy all that galley cabinetry and the dinette is.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 15:32:12

"Port Side Motor Mount"...

I think the early factory boats came with them on that side... at least that's what the old sales brochures and parts-lists show. the old 'owners manual' that I read last night talked about distributing weight to counter-balance it.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Bill Sloane
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 16:05:40

The whole port side vs starboard side mount discussion of the outboard is curious to me. I have a 5 HP 68 lb Honda mounted on the port side of my '78 swing keel Catalina. My boat has the battery and water storage tank on the starboard side. I have a dinette style interior. My boat sits straight in the water, always has. I have not noticed any difference in sailing port or starboard. If I ever upgrade the size of my motor to say a 9.9 HP (Honda weighs 108 lbs I believe), I guess I better add 40 lbs of barbell weights on top of my existing outboard to see if the boat starts to lean. . . . .

Jim: Buy the boat, you won't regret it. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bill
'Suede Shoes' C-25 SK/SR No. 496
Hammersley Inlet, Washington

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 16:48:06

<b>"The whole port side vs starboard side mount discussion of the outboard is curious to me. I have a 5 HP 68 lb Honda mounted on the port side of my '78 swing keel Catalina...My boat sits straight in the water, always has. I have not noticed any difference in sailing port or starboard." - Bill</b>

I have a port mounted outboard and I, too, don't know what the big deal is, because it doesn't present a problem to me. With either a port or starboard mount, one still has to be aware of how the loads are distributed port/starboard/fore/aft. Yeah, it might come into play if you are racing and you remove everything to lighten the load, but for the average person, the boat is going to be filled with tons of gear, coolers, grills, brass clocks,...etc. When cruising, my boat's port quarter berth becomes the storage area and with the tonnage that I shoehorn into it, I'm glad my outboard is on the port side to counterbalance this weight.

As for the issue of the factory or owners installing the motor mounts on the port side, it was the factory. Just look at the parts manual.

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc11.gif

Don Lucier, 'North Star'
C25 SR/FK
Cradled on the hard, 200ft from Lake Erie

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2003 : 20:52:41

today's boat was in very sad condition. At some time in the past there had been a heavy collision. The bow had a 4 inch hole and was poorly repaired with epoxy. The towing eye was badly bent and pulled out of the mount. The bow rails were kinked and the stanchions pulled up. The windows were leaking and smeared with sealant on the outside. The rigging was rusting. The rudder was old and split, the motor mount was in terrible condition and held a vintage Johnson 9.9 OB.

We walked away at that point and never inspected the inside.

Thanks for the advice, I'll keep you informed on the progress with boat #2. By the way Boat #1 was a swing keel in decent condition with a very old motor and needing a bottom job and a new rudder. Very nice dinette inside with marine head.

As to the PORT motor mount on #2, the boat sits level, the mast is straight, I don't see it as a problem. The owner was not aware of any problems in this regard.

Today at Mission Bay the seas were at least 5 feet with rough conditions. Light winds 5 to 10 knots directly into the channel. Large swell running over the "bar" and right into the harbor.

We watched a guy single handing a Catalina 250 with a Honda outboard. He motored out over the bar with the main up, put the wind on the beam, and hoisted the genoa. No problems and he didn't stay outside very long but it was good to see the stability of the boat in those conditions.

Edited by - on

rcraig
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
28 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2003 : 09:06:58

Jim,
I would say you have come across a heck of a deal. I am based in SoCal & looked at C-25's for a couple years before buying. Saw some real pigs for about the same price you are being quoted. Given the stated condition & list of equip, my advice would be GRAB IT !!!
If that goes onto the open market, it will not last more than a couple weeks. Where was this last Aug when I bought mine !!!

I got a '77 Std Rig, Fixed Keel, w/ L-shaped interior. It needed a good bath, but was very sound. Have been impressed w/ the quality of construction of this model & year. Don't think you can go wrong.

Ya know I could use a 150 Genoa, and this one has roller-furling, so after you buy it..........

GOOD LUCK

Richard C.
77 FK/SR (as yet to be named)

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2003 : 14:35:12

Run don't walk from that 77 C25. Jeeze interior cushions all shot to hell and a <i>port</i> mounted outboard<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> don't even bother.....in fact give me the name and number of this guy.....I'd like to give him an offer er..I mean..something to think about<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.chaplin-nest.com/unkarock/usflagwav.gif" border=0>
Mark-
'Impulse'
C25 #533 DINN/FIN ~_/)~
Bakersfield, CA.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 06:24:44

Jim,

Just add my 2 cents to the discussion. The boat you discribed at the beginning of the thread, boat 2(?) sounds like a deal. If it hasn't been listed, I suspect the owner woun't listen to a price lower than asking. If it were me, I'd do, subject of course to marine survey.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 06:28:01

I've been bouncing around this lkist for a couple of years, and periodically the quetion of motor mount comes up. What's the deal?

osmepneo came with a port mount and sits perfectly level in the water. In fact if I filled the water tank, I suspect she'd list to starboard.

I wonder if the question, or the guilty culprit for port listing boats is other than the 100 punds hanging from the transome?

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2003 : 16:19:53

I'd have to agree with the Dons on the port vs starboard motormount. The early boats had 'em on the port side the later boats on the starboard.

Larry, I'd suspect something else is causing the list to port, and I'd venture that it's not the galley cabinetry or dinette. Do you really think Frank didn't take all of that into account when he designed them?

John Mason - Ali Paroosa
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1595 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2003 : 12:01:02

Listing to Port has been covered several times on this forum so you might be able to find more info with a search. The first thing I would look at though is the rigging. If you can put a level on the boat and level it by moving weight or abjects around inside to get the deck level. Move away from the boat and look or sight to see if the mast is vertical. An inch of leaning mast can make a big differance over 28 or 30 feet of hight. If it checks good I would level the boat out with lead shot bags stowed in the Stbd areas fwd and aft of the water tank. Oh and is the water tank full ?

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

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