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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/05/2013 : 11:49:29

Has anyone stepped up to host this year? Part of me hopes its close enough for me to truck the boat there. Part of me fear that if its close enough, I'll end up trucking the boat there.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2013 : 12:10:13

On a related note, isn't it time to remove the 2011 and 2012 Nationals posts?

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2013 : 13:16:40

As of now we have no bids for the 2013 Nationals.
Please contact me if your fleet can host a Nationals that will attract enough boats to make the racing competitive..
Also please consider a "Regional" regatta.
The officers now sanction a regatta that attracts boats from a narrower area.

Edited by - Peregrine on 08/27/2013 09:31:05

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2013 : 14:01:52

What are the RULES and requirements to BID for the 2013 C-25 Nationals?

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2013 : 17:03:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ftworthsailor
 What are the RULES and requirements to BID for the 2013 C-25 Nationals?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

From the Assoc. Bylaws (see link on the left)
VII. NATIONALS:

A: The National Championship Regatta is an annual event hosted by a Fleet and that is sanctioned and sponsored by the Association. It is not an Association event and, therefore, is not guaranteed to occur every year.

C: Fleet bids to host the Nationals shall be submitted in writing to the Vice Commodore by June 1 for a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B) by June 30. If no satisfactory bid from a Fleet has been received by June 1, then bidding shall immediately be opened to non-Fleet organizations desiring to host the Nationals.

Although we have had a couple of inquiries we have no firm bid for this years "Nationals".
Please be aware that the assoc. also sanctions "Regional" regattas if you don't think you can draw a "National" following.
Contact me for bids or further info.
BTW - I/we interpret "in writing" as including e-mail.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2013 : 15:10:40

Why does the National Association care whether the National Regatta is hosted by a fleet or by anyone else who is willing to accept the burden of hosting it? Every year since 1983, the National Association held a national regatta without fail until 2002, when someone dropped the ball. From 2003-2008, national regattas were held without fail. The records since 2008 haven't been kept up to date, but we know, at least, that the ball was dropped again this year, and perhaps more since 2008.

When we had such a long string of success in finding hosts for our national regattas, why was the rule changed to initially limit potential hosts to fleets, and to exclude others until we have failed to find a fleet willing to host it? It's a dumb rule that serves no useful purpose. It needlessly complicates a process that should be simple and uncomplicated, so as to avoid throwing roadblocks in front of an enthusiastic volunteer, allowing his enthusiasm to cool.

Moreover, when we can't find one person or fleet to host a national regatta, why would we sponsor or encourage people to sponsor a regional regatta? It seems to me that Regional regattas would be competing with the National Regatta for sponsors. If we are having difficulty finding sponsors for our National Regatta, how does it make sense to exhaust their enthusiasm by having them host a regional regatta? How many regional regattas have we ever had? I don't recall any that have been scheduled and advertised here, and no race results have been posted here for any regional regattas. If nobody is interested in hosting regional regattas, and if they are competing with the National Regatta for hosts, and if they represent a risk of using up the enthusiasm of potential sponsors for the National Regatta, then it seems to me that we should eliminate the idea of regional regattas, and focus all our efforts on sponsoring our National Regatta.

You can't find sponsors for the National Regatta simply by asking for sponsors, and waiting for a volunteer to come forward, and, if they don't, ask again a few months later. You have to sell it. People who have no experience hosting a national sailing event don't realize how easy it is to do so. If you don't tell them how easy it is, they'll be intimidated by their mistaken notions. When I suggested that my fleet sponsor the National Regatta, years ago, they were afraid to take on the job at first, thinking it would be a huge task. When I described how it could be done simply, and almost effortlessly, they jumped at the opportunity.

The simplest way for someone to sponsor our National Regatta is to schedule it at their lake on the same day that their local club is holding a major annual regatta, and then arrange with the local club to allow us to have a separate start in their regatta. If you do it that way, all the organization will be done by the local club. They will use their own race committee, they will organize the cookout or social, they will set up the race course, etc. The National Association has all the trophies. What could be easier?

The rule changes that were adopted several years ago governing the national and regional regattas have worked badly. It's time they be simplified, before they produce a string of missed events, and that the officers learn how to sell the event.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/12/2013 15:12:38

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2013 : 20:56:07

I agree with Steve. It should be possible for ANY sponsor to host the Nationals whether they have an official C25 fleet or not.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2013 : 20:30:35

VII. NATIONALS

C: Fleet bids to host the Nationals shall be submitted in writing to the Vice Commodore by June 1 for a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B) by June 30.. If no satisfactory bid from a Fleet has been received by June 1, then bidding shall immediately be opened to non-Fleet organizations desiring to host the Nationals. 

Those are the bylaws and they are followed faithfully.
Every inquiry and interest in hosting has been followed up in a timely manor.

Edited by - Peregrine on 12/24/2013 16:45:33

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2013 : 09:37:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 VII. NATIONALS

C: Fleet bids to host the Nationals shall be submitted in writing to the Vice Commodore by June 1 for a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B) by June 30. If no satisfactory bid from a Fleet has been received by June 1, then bidding shall immediately be opened to non-Fleet organizations desiring to host the Nationals. 

Those are the bylaws and they are followed faithfully.
Every inquiry and interest in hosting has been followed up in a timely manor.


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The usual measure of success isn't whether you followed the rules timely and faithfully, but whether you got the job done timely and faithfully. For nearly 30 years, Vice Commodores and others were able to find someone to present our National Regatta every year, with only one exception, and for most of that time, they were able to do it without the considerable benefit of being able to advertise for a sponsor over the internet. At that time, our only effective means of communicating with our members was through articles published in the Mainsheet magazine. Throughout my professional career, I didn't get credit for trying and failing. I got credit for succeeding. Did you succeed in finding a sponsor for our National Regatta last year?

So far, none of the officers, including you, have responded substantively to my criticisms of the existing rule, which, as I recall, you strongly supported at the time. If you can't defend the rule, then I would think it should be abandoned, especially when the faithful and timely compliance with it has nevertheless resulted in a failure to present our annual National Regatta.

Sometimes it takes more than just going through the motions in a timely manner to get the job done. Sometimes it takes determination. In one year, it looked like nobody was going to step forward, so Bill Meinert took it upon himself to organize it, simply because of his determined commitment to the National Association. The result was a smashingly successful national regatta.

The National Regatta is one of the few really good opportunities our members have to meet and get acquainted each year. A failure to present it one year is bad. A failure to present it for 2 years in a row is unprecedented in our history. Has a "white knight" stepped forward to save the 2013 National Regatta? If so, who, where, and when? People need to know, before they schedule their vacations.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2013 : 10:26:43

FWIW, despite not having a c-25 fleet at my club, I am approaching the Lake Ontario Catalina Association, and to see if they would be interested in a 'levels' type regatta open to Lake Ontario Catalina owners. If they are receptive, this may be an opportunity for owners on Lake Ont. to get some one-design racing in.

I recognize the need for more than 2 boats at a National regatta, but I'm jonesing for some level competition, and this seems like the best way to get it. Others may have similar opportunities through other organizations near them.

In response to the posts above, I feel that any bid to host should be made public, and that the boat owners and officers of the forum be given the choice of venues. A bidder may not have a fleet set to go, but the owners nearby may be willing to travel to the venue.

Also the bid rules above muddle the Association's role in the regatta. If you don't own the event, then why do you dictate the venue, rules, entries, class rules, etc. Admit the event is owned and operated by the Association, and then it makes sense for you to exert the controls.

Just sayin', and since I'm not a paying member, its none of my business anyways.

Edited by - Prospector on 03/16/2013 10:36:41

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2013 : 19:56:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...I'm not a paying member...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Really?! I'm shocked! (Not that I am either, but I'm an alumnus who joined before we bought our C-25.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/16/2013 19:57:36

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2013 : 06:08:33

If anyone wants to race C25s or C250s or Capris one-design, they don't need the permission or approval of the National Association to do so, and they don't need to belong to a Catalina fleet. They can either organize the race themselves, or ask any local club or other organization that sponsors the local races to permit the Catalinas to participate in their races as a one-design fleet. I have raced for years on a Pearson Triton in PHRF races sponsored by the Shearwater Sailing Club in which the club gave the Tritons their own start, and they raced against each other one-design.

FWIW, I am a paying member of the National Association, and have been for many years, although I haven't owned a C25 for almost 10 years. I continue to support it because I have gained so much from it for so many years, and still enjoy, and learn from, the discussions here.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2013 : 08:07:05

You don't really even need your own starts, although it would be nice in a formal class regatta.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/17/2013 09:33:24

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2013 : 07:21:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...I'm not a paying member...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Really?! I'm shocked! (Not that I am either, but I'm an alumnus who joined before we bought our C-25.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have my reasons, which I would be happy to share elsewhere. Really no sense dredging mud here.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2013 : 19:59:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 If anyone wants to race C25s or C250s or Capris one-design, they don't need the permission or approval of the National Association to do so, and they don't need to belong to a Catalina fleet. They can either organize the race themselves, or ask any local club or other organization that sponsors the local races to permit the Catalinas to participate in their races as a one-design fleet. I have raced for years on a Pearson Triton in PHRF races sponsored by the Shearwater Sailing Club in which the club gave the Tritons their own start, and they raced against each other one-design.

Of course Mr. Milby is correct, but these will not be recognized as Assoc “Regattas” either “Nationals” or “Regionals”.
The officers hope that Fleets up to April 1st and members after June 1st will apply and hold regattas that let our members compete on a level playing ground to determine a class champion or a Regional best.
We hope the racing arm of the Assoc, steps up and brings our members together to race and share a great event.


FWIW, I am a paying member of the National Association, and have been for many years, although I haven't owned a C25 for almost 10 years. I continue to support it because I have gained so much from it for so many years, and still enjoy, and learn from, the discussions here.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2013 : 20:34:12

According to the Bylaws, the April 1 date is for the following year. That date, for a 2013 regatta, has long passed.

It's true the call for the 2014 "Nationals"will be going out soon, (4/1) but...
Applications for the 2013 "Nationals" or any "Regionals"are not closed and anyone interested is encouraged to come forth.
We, the officers, are standing by to help any legitimate Fleet or member host a regatta this summer, 2013.

Edited by - Peregrine on 03/27/2013 21:33:44

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2013 : 06:17:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 If anyone wants to race C25s or C250s or Capris one-design, they don't need the permission or approval of the National Association to do so, and they don't need to belong to a Catalina fleet. They can either organize the race themselves, or ask any local club or other organization that sponsors the local races to permit the Catalinas to participate in their races as a one-design fleet. I have raced for years on a Pearson Triton in PHRF races sponsored by the Shearwater Sailing Club in which the club gave the Tritons their own start, and they raced against each other one-design.

Of course Mr. Milby is correct, but these will not be recognized as Assoc “Regattas” either “Nationals” or “Regionals”.
The officers hope that Fleets up to April 1st and members after June 1st will apply and hold regattas that let our members compete on a level playing ground to determine a class champion or a Regional best.
We hope the racing arm of the Assoc, steps up and brings our members together to race and share a great event.


FWIW, I am a paying member of the National Association, and have been for many years, although I haven't owned a C25 for almost 10 years. I continue to support it because I have gained so much from it for so many years, and still enjoy, and learn from, the discussions here.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd be in favor of regional regattas if we actually had any. How many have ever actually been held? I asked this question previously and didn't get an answer. I'd also be in favor of them if they didn't compete with the National Regatta for sponsors.

You're encouraging folks to organize a regional regatta, at a time when you have failed to produce a National Regatta twice-in-a-row, for the first time in Association history.

I didn't raise an issue last year when you didn't produce a 2012 National Regatta, but, with the prospect of another failure on the horizon, it's time that someone become concerned about the future of the event.

A few months ago, when a sponsor for the 2013 National Regatta had not yet been found, Bill Meinert, who has organized two very successful past National Regattas, proposed holding the 2013 National Regatta at St. Mary's Lake, in Ohio. Did you follow up on his offer?

Bill has a great track record of not only organizing two really good national regattas, he also proposed and organized a very successful series of social gatherings of our members at various locations. I don't know where all of them were held, but I attended one in Dayton, Ohio and another in Chicago, both of which were organized by Bill, and both of which were enthusiastically attended by Association members. Bill isn't an idle talker. He's a do-er. When Bill offered to organize the 2013 event, I have to believe that it would have been as successful as every other event he has organized for the Association.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2013 : 06:25:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 According to the Bylaws, the April 1 date is for the following year. That date, for a 2013 regatta, has long passed.

It's true the call for the 2014 "Nationals"will be going out soon, (4/1) but...
Applications for the 2013 "Nationals" or any "Regionals"are not closed and anyone interested is encouraged to come forth.
We, the officers, are standing by to help any legitimate Fleet or member host a regatta this summer, 2013.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Is it the policy of the National Association to permit the officers to edit the posts of members? I think most of us would prefer that our posts remain exactly as we posted them, without alterations by the officers. If an officer wants to reply to a point made by a member, he can post a reply under his own name.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2013 : 07:12:38

Surprised me too.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2013 : 19:40:13

"Is it the policy of the National Association to permit the officers to edit the posts of members? I think most of us would prefer that our posts remain exactly as we posted them, without alterations by the officers. If an officer wants to reply to a point made by a member, he can post a reply under his own name."

Not that I am aware of. If you scroll up I think you will find all posts untouched.

"Bill Meinert, who has organized two very successful past National Regattas, proposed holding the 2013 National Regatta at St. Mary's Lake, in Ohio. Did you follow up on his offer?"

Mr.Meinert posted the following on 3/08/12
Would anyone be interested in having the Nationals at Lake St Mary's Ohio. The club does have two 2 time National Champions in residence.
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23069&SearchTerms=Meinert

No one replied to his post despite your favorable post further down...
And...
No request was received.
The officers would have been happy to consider his request.
And as noted above the 2013 "Nationals"are still open for bids.
If anyone wants to bid my addy and the the other officers addresses are on the Öfficer Flag Line & Staff page to the left.

Edited by - on

davidbloodworth
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2013 : 17:22:32

I am not aware of what has caused the issue that is being aired on this forum however I don't think this is a good place to deal with it. If there are issues which it appears there are, between individuals in the association, I think they need to be dealt with face to face not on a forum open to individuals that have nothing to do with that issue.
I also think you if you want responses from the association members and forum users about racing or cruising the question you are wanting a response to needs to be posted in multiple locations on the forum, which this one may have been, as well as communicated in some other fashion. I look at the forum at least once a week but have seldom looked at the racing/cruising sections.
I would love to be involved in a "National" regatta however since my C25 is a fin keel hauling it from Texas to Ohio would be rough. My boat is a long way from my home but I told the guys in the DFW area of Texas that I would do anything I could do if they decided to host a regatta.
While I don't have any history with this issue I think our association leadership does a good job for what we pay them!

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2013 : 17:05:58

"I told the guys in the DFW area of Texas that I would do anything I could do if they decided to host a regatta."

I believe there has been some interest for holding a regatta in the DFW area.
2013 is still open and the fleet invite for 2014 will be posted tomorrow.

Edited by - Peregrine on 09/21/2013 19:14:13

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2013 : 13:06:27

Peregrine - since only a fleet can host a sanctioned regatta, does that mean your venues are limited to the locales listed here: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/links.asp#fleets

Or is there another listing of fleets so I can at least see if there is one near me someplace?

You have mentioned forming a new fleet for the purpose of creating a regatta venue. A search of teh website failed to bring up a how-to manual of fleet expansion.

Any tips? Or do I just get a list of boat names together and submit it to the executive for consideration?

***EDIT*** Just came across this link - I'll have to read through it and see what it says. http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/Fleet_Development_Manual.html

Edited by - Prospector on 04/03/2013 13:08:17

Peregrine
Admiral

Members Avatar

830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2013 : 16:19:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Peregrine - since only a fleet can host a sanctioned regatta, does that mean your venues are limited to the locales listed here: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/links.asp#fleetsOr is there another listing of fleets so I can at least see if there is one near me someplace?

You have mentioned forming a new fleet for the purpose of creating a regatta venue. A search of teh website failed to bring up a how-to manual of fleet expansion.

Any tips? Or do I just get a list of boat names together and submit it to the executive for consideration?

***EDIT*** Just came across this link - I'll have to read through it and see what it says. http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/Fleet_Development_Manual.html
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

At this time any member can bid to host a regatta.
Fleets are given first dibs on April of the preceding year but after June first the bids are open to all members.

VII. NATIONALS

C: Fleet bids to host the Nationals shall be submitted in writing to the Vice Commodore by June 1 for a vote of the Officers (Article VIII, Section B) by June 30. If no satisfactory bid from a Fleet has been received by June 1, then bidding shall immediately be opened to non-Fleet organizations desiring to host the Nationals. 

Let me know.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2013 : 18:16:16

Does that mean that any offer to host the 2013 nationals received after April 1, 2012 has been vetted with the exec?

Colour me disillusioned. I better duck out of this thread, or Ima say sumpin I's gonna regret.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2013 : 11:21:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Does that mean that any offer to host the 2013 nationals received after April 1, 2012 has been vetted with the exec?

Colour me disillusioned. I better duck out of this thread, or Ima say sumpin I's gonna regret.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thank you.
Your post eluded me for awhile but it made me look at the bylaw I posted a little more carefully.
I'm assuming (I could be wrong) you were focusing on " If no satisfactory bid from a Fleet... "

In a way the answer is yes. All bids are brought before the officers and their merits are discussed. Of course in the last two years we have not had anything but inquiries no firm bids.
We have encouraged those who have interest but none have stepped up to host a regatta of any kind.
Hopefully a fleet (2014 Nationals are currently open to fleets) or a member (2013 Nationals are open to any member) will take the plunge.

Edited by - on

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