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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Sealant for reinstalling teak handrails

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cdavido
Deckhand

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9 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/12/2013 : 15:36:17

I'm in the middle of removing my teak handrails from my 1988 C-25. There is a ton of white sealant where the teak meets the deck. What product do members recommend when I reinstall the finished handrails? There are a variety of polyurethane sealants available so any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Cdavido
Partnership
Eugene, OR

Edited by - on

Kim Luckner
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2013 : 16:09:51

I used 3M 5200 sealant, a few years ago. I know some here don't like it but I used about a nickel sized dollop of adhesive at each attachment point. I think I used mineral spirits to clean up any squeeze out after tightening the screws. I used a flap sander prior to about 10 coats of Cetol. Still looks like new.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/12/2013 : 18:03:36

I used butyl tape on one side (my preference, it is way easier to clean up) and Life Caulk (polysulfide) on the other. Neither side is leaking.

In general I use butyl tape for well above waterline sealing purposes.

Edited by - on

iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2013 : 07:50:34

3M 5200 is for permanent installations. It is not the sealant to use for anything you intend to remove in the future (don't ask how I know). Polysulfide or polyether is what you want to use for your hand rails. Silicone sealant should only be used when no other sealant can be used, ie plastic hardware such as Spinlock line clutches. If you pick up Don Casey's book 'This old Boat', you will find it very informative when working on your boat.

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danandlu
Navigator

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USA
175 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2013 : 09:27:41

I'll second the butyl tape for above the waterline. It is easy to use, cheap, has more elasticity and a longer lifetime. Make sure it's the real stretchy, rubbery kind. It was difficult for me to find in Montana, I found it at a metal roofing supply.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2013 : 09:59:19

The builder of my Eastern used (apparently) 5200 to bed the teak handrails... I tried to carefully pry them off for re-finishing last year and ended up pulling up several pieces of gelcoat with them.

5200 is for keel-hull joints, hull-deck joints, and whatever else should never come apart. IMHO, it should require a license and background check to buy.

I recommend Boatlife Life Caulk, which is polysulfide--a just-slightly adhesive, very pliant, long-lasting sealant for bedding anything that isn't plastic. Hand-tighten the fasteners until some squeezes out (but most remains under the piece being bedded), let it set up for a couple of days, and then tighten with a wrench to compress the gasket it has formed. Then you can easily trim the excess--it will peel off. (Don't bother trying to wipe off excess before it sets--you'll just make more of a mess.) In a "few" years when you want to repeat the process, you won't have any trouble.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/13/2013 10:01:11

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2013 : 10:06:48

Note on plastic hardware: Boatlife's Life Seal is good--it's part silicone and part something else (?), compatible with plastic, and has worked nicely for me. Despite the apparent brand favoritism, I have no interest in the company--I'm just satisfied with those two products, which you can find in WM (and most other marine) stores.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2013 : 15:31:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 I used butyl tape on one side (my preference, it is way easier to clean up) and Life Caulk (polysulfide) on the other. Neither side is leaking.

In general I use butyl tape for well above waterline sealing purposes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Just for clarification, I'm assuming you mean one type of sealant on one side of the boat and the other type sealant on the other side, correct?

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2013 : 19:37:56

Yes. The port side of the boat has butyl tape, the starboard has Life Caulk.

I did the starboard rail first and made a mess with the Life Caulk. That reminded me that I had some butyl tape, so I used that on the left.

Butyl tape is great stuff. You can buy it from Maine Sail directly and the pricing is fairly reasonable. He's done the best job documenting how to use the stuff, so I didn't mind purchasing from him rather than locally. Read about it here:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

Purchase it here:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape

Since it doesn't dry up $31 of butyl tape will last you way longer than $8 small tubes of Life Caulk that dry out before you get around to using them a second time.

I still do use and like Life Caulk for stuff below the waterline. I just replaced some through hulls and used it there.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2013 : 21:29:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 Since it doesn't dry up $31 of butyl tape will last you way longer than $8 small tubes of Life Caulk that dry out before you get around to using them a second time.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...

My current tube is 4-6 years old. Sometimes I have to puncture the skin under the cap, but I've used it for small tasks like covering holes when I remove my quarter-boards each fall for all of those years. I haven't ever used the tape, but I'd be dubious about it on any surface that isn't perfectly smooth. (I admit--that's from no inexperience with it.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/13/2013 21:34:58

putzmeister
Navigator

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100 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2013 : 17:30:28

We refinished our handrails in the spring of 2010 and as of this past weekend - no leaks. We made the hole in the butyl tape using a straw. Way less messy than LifeCaulk.

Edited by - putzmeister on 01/14/2013 18:13:55

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2013 : 06:29:13

Butyl tape was the go-to sealant in the 70's based on the older maintenance books I've read, now it seems to be mostly caulks.

I used 3M 4200 when i did my handrails a few years back and had no issues.

Lee Valley sells a paint remover that eats caulk (including 5200) overnight. Depending how thick the caulk is, it may take a few overnights. If they have a store near you, its worth getting, but they won't send it through the mail.

I also like the boatlife products, they worked well for bedding the deadlight in tne vee berth.

Edited by - Prospector on 01/15/2013 09:56:03

sfsmith
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2013 : 07:52:12

Alex and/or Dan: Are there different types of butyl tape? I used some I got from a local auto parts place, and it worked great but made a sticky mess of everything it touched, including my hands. It's black in color. Mineral spirits didn't help. I think its intended use is for sealing auto windshields. I'm hoping there's a more manageable alternative. Thanks.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2013 : 10:42:56

I've been told of one characteristic of butyl tape that can be a pro or a con, depending on your needs: It doesn't set up. Polysulfide (and polyurethane) caulks set up as rubber-like material that can stretch and compress, but won't go anywhere. Once they're set, it's easy to trim away excess with a sharp blade.

Chris: How does Lee Valley's 5200-eater do with gelcoat or wood? (Actually, it's too late for me now.)

Edited by - on

putzmeister
Navigator

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100 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2013 : 11:00:37

Eveything (or almost) you ever wanted to know about bedding deck hardware with butyl tape:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/63554-bedding-deck-hardware-butyl-tape.html

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2013 : 14:26:19

I skimmed the article and have two comments:

1. If you don't have a countersink tool, you can do it with a larger drill bit, BUT if you do that with an electric drill, put it in reverse. This will prevent the bit from grabbing in the fiberglass and instantly "countersinking" half-way down into the deck core before you can stop it. All you need is a shallow chamfer in the laminate.

2. He admonishes against the "two-step" bedding method, where the "gasket" is compressed after the compound sets, because turning the bolt breaks the seal around it. I agree, so I compress the gasket by turning the nut while holding the bolt steady. In any case, the best way to prevent core rot is the overdrill-expoxy-redrill method. Then any seepage might go into the boat, but not into the deck core.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/15/2013 : 16:24:59

His overdrill method (using a dremel and not overdrilling the skin, just the core) is an even better method. The pbase articles that I linked to farther up in this thread go into that in detail. Bonding the skins together with solid epoxy makes a very strong joint.

Turning a drill backwards will dull it. A proper countersink bit isn't expensive and typically has a better angle than a 118 or 135 degree drill bit. It is also useful as a makeshift deburring tool when you drill holes in aluminum (like your mast). It's a good thing to have in the on-boat drill bit case and probably gets more use than anything else in there.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2013 : 03:53:07

Dave, I used the stripper on teak and gelcoat with no adverse effects on either. The can has a plain white paper label and its contents look like gorilla snot and smell like chemical soup.

Edited by - Prospector on 01/16/2013 03:55:47

jimhart
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2013 : 10:43:22

Thanks for info. on butyl tape.

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