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New to this site and buying a 1977 c25

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asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/18/2013 : 16:48:10

So I am buying a 1977 Catalina 25' this weekend. My last boat was a 21' so this is a move up for my wife and I. I have been looking at this site for about 3 weeks now while researching and hav found it very helpful. I am sure that in the coming months I will have many questions and hope for good answers.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photoGallery.jsp?slim=quick&currency=USD&units=Feet&seo=0&checked_boats=2532014&boat_id=2532014&back=/core/boats/1977/CATALINA--25'-SLOOP-2532014/EVERETT/WA/United-States&boat_id=2532014

Alan Duffy

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2013 : 16:52:08

Welcome and ask away!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2013 : 17:46:55

Welcome aboard! You'll like the C25. She will feel much more secure and stable than the 21.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2013 : 03:39:05

Welcome to the group. I have received a lot of good information here and needed it.

There is a lot of experience within this bunch. Luckily, I have been able to meet some of them.

Edited by - on

asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2013 : 10:40:08

Thanks everyone. Yeah I have met one person from these forms, go figure, I live in seattle. So we are on our way up to day, money in hand, to get the boat. We still can't take it out yet. First due to the engin and second due to the ice in the marina. So the owners of the boat forgot to winterize the engin and the carb is dirty, so they had a mechanic go thru it and clean it all up before selling it to me.

I also decided to keep the boat moored at Everett Marina. It's only a 30-40mi drive from me and $120 cheaper a month than down here. It's also half a day closer to the San Juans. The boat also comes with a year membership to Milltown Sailing Association, not sure how it all works, but it has reciprocal rights at a lot of other marinas giving me a free night or two at their gust dock.

One of the bummers about this boat is that the mercury outboard doesn't charge the batteries, so I have been looking at solar panles for it in the 40w to 100w range. Dose anyone have any advice on this? ha, my first question and I don't even officially own the boat for another couple of hr's. LOL

Edited by - asduffy on 01/19/2013 10:43:31

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2013 : 16:34:09

Alan,

Welcome to the forum. A 40 watt or higher capacity panel is going to be a fairly large panel. The smallest footprint will be a rigid solar panel. Rigid panels also have the longest warranty periods, oftentimes 10 years for the smaller panels and 20-25 years for the larger panels. Not that anyone wants to ever retrun a panel on a warranty claim but the length of the warranty gives you an idea of the reliability of the panels. Many flex panels have warranties not more than 5 years.

Mounting the panel off the stern rail may turn out to be your best option since it will be out of the way and does not have to be moved. I mounted a Kyocera panel in that way. I bought my panel and controller thru Northern Arizona Wind & Sun over 7 years ago and my panel has worked fine ever since. I believe they have a 40 watt made by Solartech that has about a 26' x 20" footprint which is a fairly compact size. The higher quality panel you buy, chances are the smaller footprint it will take up. (A 40 watt or higher flex panel will not be as efficient and as a result will have a huge footprint in comparison to a rigid panel.) Here is the link to their website:
http://www.solar-electric.com/1to39wasopa.html

(My website has details of my of my 20 watt panel mounted off the stern rail.)

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2013 : 16:37:16

Hey Alan - The boat looks great for the $$$. Is it a Swing Keel or Fixed? The battery issue should work well with a Solar panel. Does it have 1 or 2 batteries? Is there shore power on the slip or will it be on a mooring buoy? With shore power you can maintain the batteries at the slip. You could always get a 1000 watt generator to charge them. Anyway, welcome to the forum. Good to have another C25 out there. Are you a member of the Catalina Owners Association? For $22 a year, it's a bargain. I'm the new C25 Mainsheet Editor so check out the next issue for my intro. Mainsheet is included in the membership.

Later,

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 09:17:10

I thought charging ability would be valuable in an outboard, but 6 amps with intermittent motor use isn't many amp hours. It helps of course, and having juice to power nav lights and radio if your batteries are dead is a good thing. Using a 70% efficient engine to drive an 80% efficient alternator @ $3.50 - $4.00/gal. will pay for a solar panel pretty quickly. See my post on the Flexible Solar Panel thread in the General Sailing forum regarding multiple smaller panels

Edited by - Dave5041 on 01/20/2013 09:26:10

asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 09:23:17

So we got the boat yesterday and spent the afternoon walking around the docks deciding what slip we want. It was about 35F out, my wife was a real trooper.

Larry-Thanks. I am starting to see how big those 100w are, LOL. I think a 40w will do for now. I was thinking like you, mount it on the stern rail. I like your installation. It's funny, but I have been stalking you webpage in the run-up to buying this boat. I must have read every website there is to read about C25's.

Brian- Thanks. I got it for $2200. It is a fixed keel. It has two batteries with a charger and a selector switch. 30A shore power and 3 electric panels. I will have shore power so no problem. I will check out the Catalina Owners Association, now that I am officialy a OWNER, YAY! Whats the saying, the best two days in a sailors life.. the day he buys his boat and the day he sells it. LOL I sold my last boat for more than I paid for it and frankly looking at the condition of this boat I think I will repeat that luck.

We are already making checklists of things to do. I am going to go over the entire electrical system and creat a block diagram of it. This will make it much easier to do things like plan on installing solar. The only bulb that is out is the anchor light at the top of the mast, so I need a bosun's chair, i'll borrow my friends. The speed and depth instruments need to be replaced, mostly the depth for now. For now I have Navionics on my phone, has GPS, Waypoints, Current tables, Tide tables, Wind, and speed. That will also be on my wife's phone for backup. Next go through the pluming and check everything. The head works great except one thing that I found odd. the inlet for it is the drain for the galley sink. Also the pluming for the fresh water is a little dirty, not bad, but for the price of a little tubing it would be perfect.

The sails and rigging are all in excellent shape, the main is 3 years old and in near new condition with 2 reef points. The jib and genoa are a little older but still have the crisp white stiff feel to them. All the running rigging is above good condition. All the winches are upgrades and larger than the stock C25 for that year. Rigging is all led aft and the clutches are in good working order.

The windows are all leaking. However the previous owner gave me the Catalina reseal kit with the correct sealant (really nice guy BTW) The wood trim all needs to be removed and redone (to be expected). And the cushions are good but faded. There is no stove, I think I will just get a Coleman propane.

The bottom paint needs to be done. Previos owner had a diver come and clean twice a year and said it was in decent shape, but I think it's been 5 years since bottom paint. I am just going to have the marina pull the boat, power wash it, once dry put a fresh coat of paint on it myself and put it back in the water. Next year I will pull it and consider sanding it down and all that. I am also thinking of replacing the tru- huls, at this point their is only one it appears. Again, I may leave that till next year.

Other than that we plan on getting out and sailing.

Edited by - on

asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 09:33:34

Dave, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. My last boat charged from the motor and it sucked, to be frank. I also didn't have shore power at my last dock. But I think keeping the batteries well charged at dock and a 40w panel will work well. I do live in seattle and will be sailing the San Jaun islands mostly, so there is the worry of little sunlight. But then again I won't be doing long trips during that kind of weather, so I think it will be fine.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 11:07:00

Congratulations! Looks like a nice buy with that equipment at that price--especially for a fin with a 4-stroke. Tall rig or standard? (For cruising in your territory, standard might be best.) Leaky windows are standard equipment on the pre-88 C-25s.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/20/2013 11:09:28

asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 12:27:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Congratulations! Looks like a nice buy with that equipment at that price--especially for a fin with a 4-stroke. Tall rig or standard? (For cruising in your territory, standard might be best.) Leaky windows are standard equipment on the pre-88 C-25s.

I'm surprised that 4-stroke 9.9 Merc doesn't have a charging circuit--you might ask a Mercury shop about that. (Maybe that only came with electric start.) For cruising, it'd be useful to have--maybe not as "efficient" as solar, but electricity is electricity, and when you need it... And most cruising sailors will reluctantly admit that they're under power more than under sail when they are trying to get to places. (I'll probably get some push-back on that momentarily.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is a standerd rig. And yeah, it my area it is maybe better. though during the summer months the wind dies down so you find yourself wishing you had the tall rig. Plus the tall rig has the option of changing the mainsail and raising the boom a bit to allow for a dodger and a bimini. I looked at the rig on this and I am going to be putting a bimini on it.

We all motor-sail, thats why we have a motor, just one of many tools we have (I have, and can dock a boat under sail and want to learn to anchor under sail for emergencies). Nobody wants to do 2 knots all day, LOL. Same for why we have different sails, to lower sail in high wind. The only people who are reluctant to admit that, are trying to prove something. Thats dangerous and is what makes for bad decision making. I have spent over 20 years racing and riding motorcycles and teaching people how to ride, and a combined 4 yeas sailing 12foot to 21 foot lake sailboats to a 72 foot Irwin ketch. The most important thing to learn... you have nothing to prove to anyone including yourself. I tell people, if you learn this lesson the rest is easy. There is a great book called 'Twist of the wrist' that goes into the mental aspect of this and it's affect. Trying to prove something is begging for admiration, Working hard and becoming a solid sailor will bring all the admiration anyone needs. IMHO :)

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 18:07:49

Well said, Alan. Sailors call this "seamanship", and a good seaman is not trying to prove anything to anyone except that the safety of his charges on board, and that of the vessels around him, are the one and only priority. Everything you do as captain of a vessel is in the final analysis in support (or disregard) of that principle. Every compromise to safety the captain chooses--to show off, to win a race, or whatever--makes him a poor seaman, in my humble opinion.

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sailboat
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 15:54:17

Alan,

Have fun with her. I saw her on the web. We purchased a C-25, SR/SK one year ago this month. When we hauled her earlier this month for new bottom paint and buff/wax the hull I noted that the swing keel hangers ware installed upside down. Sooo we had to deal with that but now she will be stronger and with the Catalina Direct upgrades the classic keel "klunk" should be gone as well. You can view her progress and items accomplished on this forum. Hopefully she will splash this week.

Final (for now) interior cosmetic touches include throw pillows and a cloth curtain separating the v-berth from the head courtesy of my wife, a "starboard" panel to cover the unfinished repairs from the previous swing keel cable failure damage to the port forward settee (something a fixed keel will never have to worry about)and fashion an improved battery box hold down. We have signage for her, "Chariots of Fire" to install as soon as weather permits.

Summer projects include troubleshooting the mast lights/wiring (all the other interior and exterior lights work), installing small vents in the settees, and replacing the macerator if the present one is beyond rebuild.

I will add more pictures to the shutterfly account.

Hope to see you around the sound. Are you aware of the folks at Catalina Direct? They are helpful and have a good parts supply.

Mike

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 18:11:50

Hi Alan,

Congrats on picking it up!

You know where my old C-25 lives (I'm the member that he's met), and can go check out the 20w panel if you are in the area. It is mounted on the stern rail and you can see it in this photo:

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asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 18:48:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 Hi Alan,

Congrats on picking it up!

You know where my old C-25 lives (I'm the member that he's met), and can go check out the 20w panel if you are in the area. It is mounted on the stern rail and you can see it in this photo:

The charger electronics matter as much as the panel itself. Genasun makes a MPPT (the most efficient kind) charger that is about $70 that is well sized for these size panels and boats.

The 20W panel always served us well on the C-25. We didn't have shore power and counted on the panel for all of our electrical needs. On my new boat, with slightly higher electrical loads, I went with a 35w panel. Since the C-25 has a lot on the transom (motor, rudder, ladder, potentially a dinghy motor) it doesn't leave too much room for a large panel.

I do prefer a tall rig around here, but that's mostly from our experiences on Lake Union. The wind is generally a bit better on the sound and I bet a standard will be plenty of fun. I think the fin keel is a bigger deal.

The boat should have up to 3 through hulls: one under the galley sink, one under the v-berth, and one for the holding tank (that's under the dinette on our boat). I know it has a porta-potty now, but it may have had a regular head earlier.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey Alex, I knew I would run into you here. LOL. So this is the 40w Solar panel I keep running into and thinking it's the best bang for the buck.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/40W-12V-dual-battery-solar-panel-kit-for-camper-boat-with-controller-40-watt-/110999926628?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item19d81c7764

Maybe I am going overkill with this size, but it will be a while before I get it. At least a couple of months. Right now I am just going to charge at dock, the batteries will last a day or two, there are two marine batteries.

I am going up to the boat tomorrow for the day and am going to start running through all the systems to get a grasp on it all. The previous owner though there was only 1 thru hull in it, I will get a better idea of it. It has a marine head in it with a holding tank. That was the odd part, The thru hull for the galley sink drain has a T junction in it and is where the head sucks water in. I am not sure this is 'right'. So I am going to map out all the pluming in the boat and as much of the wiring as I can tomorrow. If the pluming is all wrong then I may chose to pull the boat to the work yard for a week or two and replace all the thru hulls and do bottom paint. I just want this all working right so I don't have to think about it anymore.

I am also replacing all lighting with LED, interior and running lights. And then get the galley in working order. It is missing the stove so I am going to put in a cheap butane single burner stove.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/butane-range-1-burner-butane-countertop-range-portable-stove/472E10SL.html?utm_source=Amazon

Edited by - on

sailboat
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 19:31:50

Alan, on our 1980, we have the marine head with a holding tank. There are three thru hulls. The first one is forward under the v berth. This one is a T and serves to drain the head sink and supply flushing water to the head. The second thru hull is situated near the holding tank and serves as the overboard discharge for the holding tank. The third thru hull is under the stove area. It is also a T and drains the galley sink and the ice box.

Edited by - on

asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 19:32:08

Last time I pulled a boat to get the bottom paint done (a friends boat) I still spent a couple hours under it working. I think my boat will be less of a task... I hope. :)

It a 72 foot Irwin custom ketch.

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asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 19:39:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sailboat
 Alan, on our 1980, we have the marine head with a holding tank. There are three thru hulls. The first one is forward under the v berth. This one is a T and serves to drain the head sink and supply flushing water to the head. The second thru hull is situated near the holding tank and serves as the overboard discharge for the holding tank. The third thru hull is under the stove area. It is also a T and drains the galley sink and the ice box.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ok, Thanks. I will try and locate them all. Do you think that if the inlet for the marine head is coming from a T in the galley sink drain/icebox drain that this is wrong? right? expectable?

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2013 : 05:22:07

our 80 doesn't have the sink, so the first thru-hull is by the waste tank, serving as intake for the head. We have no discharge option, and the second thru-hull is aft under the galley sink. We do have a thru-hull speed sensor just forward of the head intake.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2013 : 07:45:56

The parts manuals available under "Manuals and Brochures" on the left can sometimes help solve mysteries. They show this configuration:
http://catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/pc37.gif

That sounds like what you might be describing. What is disturbing is that the holding tank dump is T'd into the galley sink. If you have that configuration you'd want to be very careful since dumping the holding tank in Puget Sound is illegal with huge fines.

This shows a different configuration of the head water system that has the through hull that pulls in water next to the holding tank:
http://catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/pc38.gif

alex

Edited by - on

asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2013 : 15:03:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 The parts manuals available under "Manuals and Brochures" on the left can sometimes help solve mysteries. They show this configuration:
http://catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/pc37.gif

That sounds like what you might be describing. What is disturbing is that the holding tank dump is T'd into the galley sink. If you have that configuration you'd want to be very careful since dumping the holding tank in Puget Sound is illegal with huge fines.

This shows a different configuration of the head water system that has the through hull that pulls in water next to the holding tank:
http://catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/pictures/pc38.gif

alex
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Alex. That helps a lot. I am starting to have a suspicion that the head was installed at a later point in this boats life. I think the holding take is under the V berth. If this is the case it looks like I will be adding a couple of thru hull, LOL. Oh what fun. But like I said, I really wantto get the pluming, the hull, and the electronics squared away so that I just don't have to worry about it in the future.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2013 : 17:06:53

I know how that goes. I spent the first few months of C-25 ownership figuring out the mysteries and getting everything to be done "properly". I'm doing the same thing now with my Pearson 28. Hopefully I don't buy another boat anytime soon and can concentrate on the sailing!

It does sound like your boat has a holding tank retrofit, but maybe someone else with an L-dinette can comment. On our C-25 has the holding tank was under the forward dinette bench.

The factory Catalina through hulls aren't great (they appear to have glassed in pipe nipples), so having retrofit work could actually mean that your boat has higher quality ones.

Edited by - on

CarbonSink62
Navigator

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USA
208 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2013 : 09:57:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
...What is disturbing is that the holding tank dump is T'd into the galley sink...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Alex,
I'm pretty sure that T is for the icebox drain.

Ken

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2013 : 10:55:17

Oh, right, that makes way more sense and was how our C-25 was configured.

If you are down there playing with the plumbing it is useful to put a ballvalve on the icebox drain so that you can open and close it's drain separately from the sink one. The icebox bottom is low enough to get water in it when the boat is heeled. It's kind of gross. The boat comes with a check valve to prevent this from occuring, but there isn't really enough water pressure on it to make it work properly.

Edited by - on

ChipG
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2013 : 19:47:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have spent over 20 years racing and riding motorcycles <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry, off topic, but what do you ride/race?

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