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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Appropriate genoa size

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greatescape
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/18/2013 : 13:07:19

I plan to replace my 110 geny with a 140.
Any pros and cons? I understand I will point better.

Scott

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2013 : 13:53:50

I have found that for Oyster Bay/LI Sound area a 135 Is a good match so a 140 should be fine also. If your old sail was old and blown out, The new one will make you point better. I have two Gennys, One is a 135 well built with a Dacron UV cover. The other one I bought from a member of this forum and is a 130 Radial with a higher cut clew, Lighter weight and no UV cover. I use a sock to cover it. I really like the second one and used it all last summer. Because its lighter without the UV cover It won't collapse as fast in light air and the higher clew helps with the forward visibility. They both reef well on the roller where something like a 150 won't.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2013 : 14:03:42

Our C-25 points better with the 110 than the 140. The 140 provides more lift, but can't be sheet in as tightly because it hits the shrouds and that screws up the sail shape. I haven't figured out the exact wind speed where the 110 makes more sense than the 140 on our boat, but it is lower than I'd always guessed due to the pointing. I'd guess that on an average ~2 hour race course we might be faster with the 110 above about 10-12mph and faster with the 140 below that.

Our 140 isn't cut perfectly though (I think it is sized for a C-25 standard, we have a tall).

The extra lift and power from the 140 is very nice in light air. Having one of each is my preference. When the genoa dies on my new boat (years away, the current one is nearly new) I think I'd move from my current 120 to a pair of sails: 100 and 135. Most of the summer the 135 would stay on, most of the winter the 100 would stay on. With good roller furling and well cut sails this lets me cover ~70% to 135% with two sails. The 100 would be cut with heavier cloth.

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cshaw
Captain

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2013 : 16:05:52

I have a 110, 130, 140 and 155 (OK, I like to make sails, and only a couple are "store-bought", and you tend to collect them over what will be 37 years with the same boat this year!)

For racing, I almost exclusively use the 155, with the 140 used when its more than about 15. We have always reefed the main and clung to the larger headsail and that has almost always worked out to a faster race for us.

When we can't carry the 140 and reefed main I drop to the 110 and shake out the reefs and start adding reefs back in as the wind increases.

For cruising and daysailing (especially with guests that do not sail), I baseline the 130 at the most, and quite often just use the 130 with no main. If its blowing pretty good with a lot of folks aboard I do the same thing, but use the 110 instead.... For crusing, I only carry the 110 and 130 for headsails.

Chuck

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2013 : 16:33:56

Chuck: Do you make your sails using the kits from Sailrite, or do it all on your own? It's on my "something to try list", but I'll probably do it with a smaller sail first (like a replacement sail for my Dyer Dhow dinghy).

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greatescape
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2013 : 18:56:42

Thanks guys for your advices. I sail in Western LI Sound, so 140 Genny should be fine.

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2013 : 17:31:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 Chuck: Do you make your sails using the kits from Sailrite, or do it all on your own? It's on my "something to try list", but I'll probably do it with a smaller sail first (like a replacement sail for my Dyer Dhow dinghy).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Alex!

I do not use the Sailrite kits, but I started out with Sailrite and read all their "make your own ---sails and win" series of books. While in Houston I filed for a small business licence, so I could buy from Bainbridge Aquabatten wholesale.

I started out by building a sail for by little 8ft sabot.

When we moved to Florida, I have not filed for a business licence here yet, and just found I have two meniscuc tendon tears (aft and mid) so I won't be on my knees any time too soon!!!

Once you try building your own sails, you stand a good chance of getting hooked! Quite a few of my sails were built using a portable "Brother" machine I bought at a garage sale and had gone thru by a shop in Houston.....

Have fun!!

Chuck

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2013 : 21:44:17

Thanks Chuck, I'll have to give it a try. I have an appropriate machine (Sailrite LSZ-1), I've just used it for canvas and not sails.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 10:32:16

FWIW, I also liked my 130 (roller furling) genny on western L.I.S. 140 would've been fine... 150-155 is more than I preferred to handle since I didn't race her. And like Chuck, if reducing sail, I reduced the main first and stuck with the full headsail, all the way down to no main and full headsail when sailing to nowhere with guests aboard. (The headsail on the C-25 provides more drive with much less heeling.) It can be a great pleasure to simply pull one string and be sailing, and then pull another string and be done.

A woman who used to instruct on an Atlantic sloop and had never used a furler, sailed with us one day when we just pulled out the genny... When I rolled it back up, she said, "Wow! That is SO NICE!"

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/20/2013 10:35:57

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 22:58:02

I've noticed a number of Catalina owners comment on how well their boats sail with a head sail only, as on this thread. When I've tried to sail with a head sail only, I have a hard time keeping my boat pointed as the wind seems to want to blow the bow away from the wind. So I never sail without the main, which seems to give my boat a nice balance. As I am relatively new to sailing, what crucial detail might I be missing?

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2013 : 23:06:16

I agree Seth.

Even running genoa + main can be tricky in light wind as the genoa will pull the boat around (perhaps not where the helmsman is pointing it) if the genoa is over trimmed.

Most of the boats that I see running with jib/genoa only are going downwind.

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cshaw
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460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 09:24:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sethp001
 I've noticed a number of Catalina owners comment on how well their boats sail with a head sail only, as on this thread. When I've tried to sail with a head sail only, I have a hard time keeping my boat pointed as the wind seems to want to blow the bow away from the wind. So I never sail without the main, which seems to give my boat a nice balance. As I am relatively new to sailing, what crucial detail might I be missing?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Quite true you cannot point as high without a main up. Try easing 2-3 inches of sheet out and see what happens. Also, if you have inner and outer jib fairlead tracks, use the outer ones.

Also, do not have your jib halyard over tightened. That will pull the draft too far forward when only sailing with a headsail. Only have enough tension on the halyard to barely get rid of the crow's feet at each hank. If you are using roller furling, the halyard tension is what it is for most systems since its not usually real easy to tweak it on some systems.

Chuck

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 11:46:45

I agree you can't point as high on just the headsail--that's why I generally refer to it for "sailing to nowhere"--for example, a beam reach out across Long Island Sound, and then a beam reach home. (The tide could screw up that plan, but generally it made for a pleasant day or evening on the water.)

Over-trimming is also not advised, but I see genoas over-trimmed on boats with mains up, as well. This moves the center of effort (CE) more forward, where it tends more to push the bow around and, on a reach, does not improve the drive from the sail.

I also suspect a larger genoa (e.g. 130+) works better than a standard jib (110-) because the CE of larger sail is further aft, better balancing it against the center of lateral resistance (mostly based on the keel). With my 130 alone, my helm was generally completely neutral (which felt kind of squirrelly to me). If I wasn't trying to point too high, I could release the tiller for and the boat would hold course for a while. Main up, I had light weather helm, which I prefer.

To tack with just the genny, I would make sure not to turn too sharply (to maintain momentum), and sheet in gradually on the new tack, also gradually pointing back up as the boat gained speed. Trimming too quickly can cause an uncontrolled 180 as the boat loses steerage and the wind pushes the bow around.

If you want maximum pointing, use both sails (as the boat was designed), but the genny alone can give a nice ride if you're not trying for too much.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/21/2013 12:13:38

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2013 : 13:47:46

Thanks for all the advice. I'll be trying it out soon!

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