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West Marine really disappointed me

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5431 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/25/2013 : 19:11:15

I've been going to my local West Marine for years, and although prices have been high, I usually get good quality merchandise there.
And they've always offered a "Price Match Guarantee", where if you can find a lower advertised price, they'll match it.

So today I went to get new Orion Safety Flares for Passage. I checked with Defender, Post Marine, Hamilton and Jamestown. West Marine was selling the flares for $32, while the others were between $25 and $27.

I asked for the price match, and was told by the sales clerk that as of March 1, West Marine has stopped matching prices, unless the other store is within 30 miles of the Stratford CT store. I feel this is misrepresentation and a misleading policy.

I felt like I was getting screwed by West Marine, and will now start thinking twice about going there. I was very disappointed by West Marine, and plan to let my friends and associates know about their change of policy. I no longer plan to make them my first stop. I've got lots of online catalogs so I generally won't need to go there in the future.

I wonder whether any of you have been adversely affected by this, or have ever heard about this?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2013 : 19:34:47

It seems like an appropriate modification to a policy that can be used unfairly against them.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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USA
5431 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2013 : 19:51:03

I'm talking about $6 or $7. I guess you're right - if it were a few $1000 item I could understand, but I think it is very short-sighted.

As I said to the sales clerk, "I'd rather earn 80% of the sell price than 100% of a no-sale, AND earn an unhappy customer.

Perhaps instead of a strict geographical limit they could institute a policy limiting price matching to 15% or $100.

In my case, I would hate to lose a regular customer to a $7 dispute.

Edited by - Voyager on 03/25/2013 19:53:29

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2013 : 19:55:04

It seemed fair to me years ago when a WM store said they'd match the price including shipping costs from a distant store. (Fortunately, Defender is only about 10 miles from my local WM store.) But I can't hold it against a local store with inventory, displays, employees, rent, heat, light, maintenance, cleaning, "shrinkage" (theft), and other expenses, for charging more for something than some distant warehouse with little more than a website and a very large e-mail list. And I don't believe in (and don't practice) checking out a product in a store and they buying it from an on-line discounter.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/25/2013 20:02:51

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2013 : 21:06:54

I would first check with WM to be sure that it is the new policy. 30 miles seems a little limited: it wouldn't take a lot of marine purchases to make a 30 mile drive worthwhile.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2013 : 21:26:05

WM's 2013 catalog says 50 miles (page 1077, "Low Price Guarantee"). Even then, Defender is probably more like 70 miles from Stratford.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3478 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 03:53:57

I mostly agree with Dave on this. The local store has conveniences - seeing many of the items on display, mostly knowledgeable staff, returns are easier and it being local makes it extremely convenient for buying and bringing home same day. I will sometimes check an item in the store and buy on the internet but WM benefits hugely by all the items I do wind up buying from them. I recall buying two Caframo fans from them which had to be special ordered. I could have bought them online at a cheaper cost but with a fragile item, thought best to buy locally in case it had to be returned. As it turned out, one of the fans was damaged. They ordered a new one and swapped it for my broken one. Very easy !! I also recall turning in an old Taylor inflatable fender that leaked and at the time, they took it back and gave me a new one based on Taylor's warranty at the time which covered free replacement for lifetime. On the other hand, large diameter line (main & genoa sheets), I checked it out at WM but the cost was so much less thru Defender, I ordered it thru Defender. Recently, I replaced my furling (small diameter) line and though the cost was slightly more thru WM, I decided to pick it up at WM, however, turns out the day I went to buy it, WM was having a 25% off the Sta-Set lines and so I made out fine purchasing it locally.

As far as your WM store policy regarding price match within 30 miles, well that seems a bit skimpy and 50 miles or more would seem fair. I do not expect a local store to match an internet price where the internet company may have very limited number of stores and does most business mail-order. It is expected that their overhead would be much lower. I look at it as not being disappointed with the local store - I certainly would not want them to go out of business since they do have the convenience of being local and there are plenty of times when you need that convenience when you can just pop in and out and install your item same day on your boat. But the cost of having many stores to support local purchasing does have extra overhead costs to contend with and so these stores need to find the right balance for providing that service. I look at it in a positive light that I have benefits with both the convenience of making my purchases locally and at significant cost savings and variety of products via the internet.

Edited by - OLarryR on 03/26/2013 03:58:57

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3477 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 04:11:36

Focus on the local person that is employed there and support him rather than the company. It is what it is, don't take it personal, you mean nothing to West Marine. Don't let WM mean anything to you.

I make an effort to show gratitude to the local employee and West Marine is just a unfeeling corporate LLC.

Buy your stuff and go Sailing!!

<< rant on >>

ANyhoo... I suggest the problem is that flares are outdated ( or unreliable) and something like 410 flare shells in a some kind of a real gun might be an option.. or.. some kind of a digital SOS strobe.

I'm fed up with paying for a corporate made product that stops working...

Remember when a soaking wet 20 year old wax covered red railroad flare would light up no problem??? What happened to that product?

<< /rant off >>

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 04:46:00

I started a [url="http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/97406-west-marine-no-longer-matching-prices.html"]thread on this topic on Sailnet[/url] a couple weeks ago. I share some of your frustration, but also sympathetic to the brick-and-mortar stores who have a higher cost structure, and whom I think we need to keep in business.

I've been unable to find an online seller for flares - apparently too hazardous to ship. So I'll have to use WM for them.

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/26/2013 04:51:42

Davy J
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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 04:56:37

I’ll make a few comments on this. I own a specialty retail store, I’ve been in this type of business for over 16 years. When I started it, customers could mail order items, but at the time there wasn’t wide spread use of the internet. When I noticed the customers start to order items online, around ‘99 or 2000, I told my wife that the internet will start to boil the products down to purely the bottom line price. This is what has essentially occurred. The customers still want our experience and knowledge on the product, but they won’t pay the price for that info.

Now here is the problem as a retailer. Every item I sell has to carry it’s share of the cost of my entire operation. The rent, electric bill, advertising, payroll. In other words, it has to produce a certain profit percentage to make it work. When a product fails to make the required profit percentage guess what happens…. I stop selling that item. I’ve stopped selling a lot of items in the last few years….

The writing is on the wall, ten years, or so, from now, retail business will not look any thing like it does now.

I can prove it to you. Pick an item, I’ll use the last item I added to my boat, an inverter. I started looking online and found a few units that I wanted to look at. I found some at home depot online, lowes online, sears.com. Then I went to these stores, guess what, not a single store carried them in stock. You had to order the item online. They did not have it on the shelf in-store. This is the retail of the future.

It does not look good.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 07:40:19

I try to support the local shops, however, I end up going on line to find the item I need as the local stores are a pain to visit, have limited supply & rarely have help to assist you in finding something or knowledge of the products. As for marine items I do not live close to a West Marine store so ordering on line to get what I need is a must for some items. I do support he local sail loft for the items they have in stock. As in history things are in a constant state of change and providers must keep up with it or fail. Most changes are brought on by consumer demands (cheap) or corporate greed.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 07:50:16

Just curious, DavyJ, what is your business? got a web site?

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/26/2013 07:50:47

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 07:59:01

Expecting a brick and mortar to compete on the same plane as little Billie working out of his parent's basement is not realistic.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 09:48:54

It takes only $100 in WM products with taxes added to offset the shipping and no taxes from Defender, assuming they're the same price. Since Defender is normally cheaper anyways, and WM isn't pricematching them, it's now a no-brainer.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 11:42:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 It takes only $100 in WM products with taxes added to offset the shipping and no taxes from Defender,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just because Defender doesn't collect sales tax, under Texas law you are still required to pay state and local Use tax on those purchases.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 12:02:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 It takes only $100 in WM products with taxes added to offset the shipping and no taxes from Defender,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just because Defender doesn't collect sales tax, under Texas law you are still required to pay state and local Use tax on those purchases.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I also like to rip tags off mattresses.

I'm what you call a rebel. I know I should be ashamed.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 03/26/2013 12:05:18

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 18:34:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 I also like to rip tags off mattresses. I'm what you call a rebel. I know I should be ashamed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually, mattress owners are allowed to remove mattress tags. The law against tag removal only applies to those selling mattresses.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2013 : 20:04:07

I agree there's more selection on the web than in any store... But when I was thinking about a new GPS, I played with the Garmin 640 touch-screen user interface at my local WM store, not sure whether I'd like it compared to the buttons I was used to on my failing 286. That was "touching and feeling" in the truest sense--not possible with a web discounter. A while later, WM put it on sale for just a little more than the lowest price on the web, and I carried one home. I don't know whether even Garmin, not to mention their retailer, would have gotten the sale if I hadn't been able to touch that product. (I'm kind of an old curmudgeon.)

BTW, evading your state sales tax through internet orders is about to become a thing of the past, as it should.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/26/2013 20:06:04

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2013 : 10:22:18

Just about every "sales tax" is actually a "use" tax and an obligation of the consumer. I am on Dave's side. Internet sales should never have been exempted from sales tax. State and local entities must fund their activities, so you can line the pockets of someone in Idaho and pay higher local taxes to make up the shortfall or level the playing field a little by making that remote source collect from users and return taxes.. Businesses claim it will be horrendously complex and expensive to do it nationwide, but all it will take is a software package and your address. Many times Internet sites don't even stock items, they just add their name and profit and the product ships from the manufacturer or distributor. Apple seems to be able to collect state and local taxes when I order online, and so do many companies with a local presence. You can go for the lowest price, but keep your service complaints to yourself if you do.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 03/27/2013 10:30:39

Voyager
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5431 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2013 : 20:31:29

So when I got home I noticed the expiration date on the flares was July 2016. I'm a little concerned since I don't want to have flares that expire mid-season. So tomorrow I plan to go back to the store to see if I can get a set that expire in Oct or Nov. there ARE conveniences to buying locally.
I hear what many are saying about inventory at local stores: I often have difficulty finding rare or unusual items in local stores. But many provide "ship to store" at no charge for shipping. Those stores using flexible supply chain management systems can do this - others not so much …
I've used the service often - works pretty well

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2013 : 20:51:48

No WM store can have every item in their 1000+ page catalog--they have to select a subset they think they can move. Here in Mystic, there's a pretty fair sailing inventory--the Norwalk store is more power-oriented. I've had good service in both. It's also nice having Defender just down the road...

Edited by - on

redviking
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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2013 : 09:01:12

I think it is fair to complain when needed, but let us remember that once upon a time there were indie chandleries in every major port. Boat US had stores, Boaters World existed. Now all we have left is WM. If they go out, where will I be able to go when an important part kicks the bucket on Saturday morning or for us liveaboards, any given day?

The industry is shrinking because of a whole host of problems. Let's not hasten the demise of the last reliable source for supplies.

Sten

Edited by - on

awetmore
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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2013 : 11:35:55

Didn't competition from WM close a lot of those independents?

We still have independents around here. I spend too much at the large one in Seattle (Fisheries Supply, which has pricing that is better than Defender on many items) and have found others in many of our local ports. WM is still quite prevalent, but not my first choice.

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 03/29/2013 : 13:40:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 Didn't competition from WM close a lot of those independents?

We still have independents around here. I spend too much at the large one in Seattle (Fisheries Supply, which has pricing that is better than Defender on many items) and have found others in many of our local ports. WM is still quite prevalent, but not my first choice.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, WM bought the assets of boat US. Boaters World was more profitable than the Parent Company Ritz Camera, but they decided in their infinite wisdom to try and save the mothership. WM may be evil, but the lesser of not having an evil empire to deal with....

Sten

Edited by - on

bigelowp
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USA
1800 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2013 : 18:38:06

While price is somewhat important (don't shoot me yet) knowledge and selection AND convenience have value as well. Every year I have a list of items I purchase when Defender has their Warehouse sale -- this year was no exception. Other items I tend to shop for at stores, WM and lesser known places like Landfall in CT, that focus on sailing. Then there are purchases made at WM or the local yard because they are convenient and quick to get to and more importantly get back to the project from. Price guarantees are nice, but I would prefer the store make enough from my purchase to stay in business than to squeeze every cent from them just to find they founder. The real test of WM for Bruce will be how well they handle the exchange for a longer expiration date: if they do so, it was worth the price delta, if not, then . . . .

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 03/30/2013 : 17:29:23

Darn - I missed WM's closing time by a few minutes today, I wanted to attempt the switcheroo. I spent almost the entire day pulling the tarp, cleaning the nooks and crannies, scoping out dimensions for the A-frame and roughing up the bottom paint, so I ran out of time.
I should be able to catch them on Monday to check for later expiration dates. I reckon I'll check the dates first, then if I find a later one, will go back out to the car and get the current ones. I checked the receipt and it said "if you're disappointed with this product for ANY reason we will gladly exchange it or refund your money within 30 days …". I think I'm covered.

Edited by - on

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