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Sailing in a wet suit?

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/28/2013 : 20:37:35

I'm getting ready to singlehand for a few days next weekend. The water in our area is still a little chillier than normal (low-mid 60s). I know a lot of you guys, especially in the PNW, sail in even colder water routinely.

In the unlikely event that I were to fall overboard, I would like to take every reasonable precaution to maximize my survival window. Have any of you sailed in a wet suit? Are they ridiculously uncomfortable? How about a shorty suit that just covers your body core? Would that provide enough insulation without being terribly uncomfortable?

Long range forecast for next weekend has air temps in the 60s, so that would seem to be cool enough to tolerate the insulation of a wet suit. But do you sweat like crazy under those things, or can you be comfortable in them?

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 04/28/2013 : 20:51:41

I used to sail my catamaran in Budd Inlet (southern end of Puget Sound) and made the mistake the first time of bringing my wet suit, but not wearing it. I was so cold after about 45 minutes (on a 90 degree day) that I could barely sail back to the launch. The wet suit had been wrapped around the stays, but once I was out sailing, it would have been difficult to get it on (no idea what I was thinking, that was about 20 years ago). Every time,after that, I'd sail with my wet suit on when on Puget Sound. I also sailed on my regular lake as late as November and as early as February, and if I thought it was going to be cold, I'd wear it. I had a Costco special shorty that did the trick. It covered my entire trunk, and down to my elbows & just above my knees. Now bear in mind that this cat's trampoline sat about 6" above the water, so you were constantly wet while sailing it. You won't be getting that wet (and hence cooled), so a wet suit might be a bit much to sail in unless it's particularly nasty out.

Do you wear a harness? We always wear self inflating PFD's with integral harnesses. You might do better to rig jack lines, lanyards, and a harness to keep you on deck. We use our spinnaker halyard as an overhead attachment point if it's nasty out, and always clip in to the mast if it's not.

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hewebb
Admiral

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 04:24:57

My first sailboat was a Sailfish. I sailed in Lake Michigan in a wetsuit most of the time. Now living in Texas I have not even thought about it except for a very short period of time I had a Dolphin.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 05:42:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 ...Do you wear a harness? We always wear self inflating PFD's with integral harnesses. You might do better to rig jack lines, lanyards, and a harness to keep you on deck. We use our spinnaker halyard as an overhead attachment point if it's nasty out, and always clip in to the mast if it's not.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
David - As you may have seen on another thread, I have purchased a harness and 2-point tether. Sten lent me his jackline, and in addition I am going to set up several attachment points at mast, traveler, and helm with some additional custom-made tethers to clip on at those key points.

The wet suit is just for added redundancy. Why so much redundancy? Because I've never used the harness/tethers before, and not sure if it will be unwieldy or configured in a way that prevents me from doing something that I need to do. So if I have to unclip for some reason, I want the extra protection of the wet suit.

I'm intrigued by your clipping on to the halyard. I had asked about this on Sailnet, and nobody commented on the idea. Since our boats are so small and narror, most commercial tethers could allow you to drag over the side. Using the halyard alone might cause you to have a pretty wild ride if the mast sways in rough seas. So it would seem that having a normal tether AND the halyard could allow the tether to be long enough to move around a bit, but if you should fall the halyard could prevent you going into the water. Thanks for mentioning this again - I had forgotten about using the halyard. I'll secure it to the unused reefing cleat prior to departing so it will be available to clip on any time I go to the foredeck.

I ordered a shorty last night, so we'll see how that goes. We'll be doing early morning sailing, when temps could be in low 50s, so the wet suit insulation might not be too unbearable. I swim laps every summer, but in past years waited until July so the water would warm up. Maybe with the shorty I can start swimming early in the season. That possibility was enough to "seal the deal" for me.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 06:28:33

I just cancelled my Amazon order. I might reorder later today or tomorrow. Meanwhile, I need to ask an important question that I had neglected before:

How do you pee in those things?

Until I get an answer to this (or find a wetsuit with a well-placed zipper), I realize that a shorty suit will be unsuitable for all-day dry wear.

For people who are in the water all day, it's pretty obvious that you can just pee in the suit (though a Google search brought up quite a bit of debate on this subject). But this does not apply to the way I intend to use the suit.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 08:28:23

In all your years of sailing and, with the exception of your Phantom, exactly how many times have you fallen off your boat? What makes you think you're going to start now?

I think it's important to be aware of the dangers, take reasonable precautions and plan for contingencies but, this is just a bit over the top.

BTW, you pee in a wetsuit exactly as you think you do.

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Davy J
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 08:49:13

As a certified diver, I think wearing a wet suit onboard would be an uncomfortable waste. First, I own three wetsuits for diving in tropical climate water. The wet suit has to be the correct thickness for the water temp. Second, for a wet suit to function correctly, it has to be tight. Which, just sitting around in all day would be not fun. I would just buy a PLB or epirb and clip it to yourself.

And yes, if the need arises, you pee in the suit......

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redeye
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 09:14:46

<>

I would not order a wetsuit online. It is very important it fits well. I've had a shorty for years that I use on occasion, and keep onboard if I know I need to go out in the cold.

There is nothing more uncomfortable than a wetsuit that does not fit.

Go to a big dive shop.. they make a lotta cool stuff out there nowadays. I've got a liner that I wear under the wetsuit that is really comfortable.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 09:19:33

<< Second, for a wet suit to function correctly, it has to be tight. >>

I've used several loose wetsuits. They hold water that holds temp. very comfortable. Love um.

I've seen many, many people that have bought wetsuits that were too tight. Same with the Triathlon people.. many that got wetsuits too tight and ended up with difficulties from chest constriction.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 09:40:48

I can't take credit for the spinnaker halyard idea, I got that from an article by Lin & Larry Pardy.

As far as a wet suit, I don't think I'd want to sail in one all day if I didn't have to. However, there are other things you might consider, they make swim wear called "skins" I think, which are very thin (2-3mm) neoprene tops & bottoms designed to keep you warm when diving in tropical water. From an extremely quick search online, it looks like you can buy long sleeve tops and shorts (which solves the peeing problem), and they'd likely be more comfortable than a regular wet suit, but still hot & sweaty over time.

Have you thought about a dry suit? At least with that, you can wear street clothes underneath (fleece, not cotton), and you can ventilate easily if you get one that opens across the front instead of the back. Super expensive compared to a wet suit though. One worth having is probably going to set you back more than $1k. I've considered this option if I were going to be sailing by myself a lot.

I'd be more inclined to spend money on staying on top of my boat with jacklines, dual tethers, attachment points, and a self inflating PFD w/ chest harness than sweating & chafing in a wet suit on the off chance I might fall in.

Edited by - delliottg on 04/29/2013 09:44:06

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 12:58:14

I wore a full length wet suit to sail a Hobie Cat in January, with snow flying, and it kept me warm all day, except for my hands. Occasionally it actually got too warm, and I unzipped it partially, to regulate my comfort. It depends on how cold and how wet you expect to be. If there's a chance you might get immersed in very cold water, a wetsuit will protect you to a great extent. If you aren't likely to get dunked, I think a better choice would be a set of foulies and layering for warmth, and a harness to keep you on the boat. One benefit of a cruising boat is that you can always carry a towel and dry clothes to change into, in case you get wet.

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 04/29/2013 : 13:38:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 I'm getting ready to singlehand for a few days next weekend. The water in our area is still a little chillier than normal (low-mid 60s). I know a lot of you guys, especially in the PNW, sail in even colder water routinely.

In the unlikely event that I were to fall overboard, I would like to take every reasonable precaution to maximize my survival window.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I single hand frequently and have never worn my wetsuit or drysuit on my keel boats. I do wear my dry suit when sailing on a dinghy. I keep a drysuit on my sailboat as emergency foul weather gear, but haven't used it yet.

If you go overboard while single handing you are going to have more problems than exposure time (like getting back to your boat as it sails away). It would be better to wear a harness that prevents you from going overboard and keeping a waterproof/handheld VHF on your person.

Wetsuits a very warm if they aren't wet, and so you may not find it comfortable. When I wore a wetsuit while kayaking I would do occasional rolls to keep the suit wet and myself cooler. That is harder to do on a sailboat.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 05:00:28

I have harness and tether, as described above.

I visited our local dive shop (largest one within 30 miles) and have purchased a front-zip jacket with some 2mm neoprene content on core body, and with other materials at the joints to allow flexibility. This provides a little more warmth than my current windbreaker, and is more lightweight and compact than some of my heavier outerwear.

I will not carry a personal VHF because there's nowhere to attach it to me without it getting hung up on the split backstays whenever I move out from behind the wheel. This is always a problem on this boat when I have anything hanging off my belt or PFD, and I have ruined a cell phone holster this way before (and nearly lost a phone overboard in the process). And if the VHF is not attached to me, it provides little value since I already have a cockpit mic for my fixed VHF. Since I will be sailing in cell phone range, I have purchased a DryPak for the phone, and I will keep that around my neck at all times in case I need to make emergency contact.

Edited by - TakeFive on 04/30/2013 07:19:28

awetmore
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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 09:48:54

Some PFDs have a pocket for the VHF. You can also add a small backpack to the PFD (Kokotat sells one that fits onto most PFDs) and carry it that way. When sailing in a busier port and warmer (60F) water I think that this is probably one of the the best safety items that you can have.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 10:05:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 Some PFDs have a pocket for the VHF. You can also add a small backpack to the PFD (Kokotat sells one that fits onto most PFDs) and carry it that way. When sailing in a busier port and warmer (60F) water I think that this is probably one of the the best safety items that you can have.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A backpack would be even worse. Someday when you have a chance, get on a C250 with wheel and split backstays, and try squeezing between the two. You'll know what I mean.

I have no handheld VHF. I sold it to delliottg. Since I do all my sailing in cell phone range, the phone is my handheld.

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redviking
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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 10:34:00

Dude, chill.... Goodness gravy.... It's not a moth.... Just run it right. Go 20% under what you might do with crew.... Freaking me out. Buy me a ticket. Geeezz

Sten

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 10:36:03

I do all my sailing (thus far) w/in cell phone range as well, but I've got three VHF radios on board, one fixed (and a wireless WHAM microphone for it), an older (non waterproof) handheld Uniden, and the newer waterproof Icom handheld I bought from Rick some time ago (thanks). I generally keep one in reserve inside the cabin (the older but recently re-celled Uniden), the WHAM & fixed VHF are always running on a 5-6 channel scan (until the batteries die in the WHAM, about five hours in or so), and then the waterproof Icom handheld in one of the coaming pockets. We have waterproof drybags for both our phones (and now our tablets), but I find having the phone dangling from my neck distracting, so I'm not good about keeping it around it.

I like the idea of a mini-backpack to keep the Icom in, there's really nowhere on the front of the vests for anything, and I worry that anything that is on the front when it inflates is going to get flung away from me anyway, and I don't trust the belt clip to keep it on the vest beyond a little bump. I'd hate to lose one of my radios overboard because I was tossed against a stay while going back & forth to the foredeck.

Rick, have you considered changing your backstay to a single instead of the split? It's not such a big deal on our tillered boat, but I could see where it's be a PITA on a wheel boat. I'm pretty sure both Randy & Paul have done this mod. I haven't seen the need because of our tiller.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 11:59:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Dude, chill.... Goodness gravy....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
He Sten, it's all good. I've learned a lot from the discussions, and even when I refuse to listen I never forget the suggestions and often I'll come around after I get some experience.

This little cruise has a number of firsts for me: Singlehanding for several days, 30° lower air temperature than I usually go out in (morning temps now forecast in the high 40s-low 50s), and 25° lower water temperature than normal (lower part of the river is mid 50s). When daysailing near I'm very picky about my conditions, but cruising on a tidal river is sailing on a pretty rigid schedule. So I need some additional outerwear beyond what I'd normally carry, and the advice I got here has saved me a lot of wasted $$$.

Thanks again for lending me the jackline. It could be the single most important piece of gear that I've added for this trip.

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JohnP
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Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 13:22:59

When I sail on the Chesapeake Bay in December, January, February, and March, I wear layers of shirts with a lined jacket. I wear a knit cap. I have a fleece turtleneck, and I wear fleece-lined nylon sweatpants under my jeans. I have 3 kinds of gloves for cold weather to choose from (thanks to Harbor Freight) - fleece-lined fleece gloves, cotton-lined plastic gloves (also a pair stored in the anchor locker), and fleece-lined heavy rubber gloves. I clip the handheld VHF to my type V-PFD.

There is usually no one out on the Bay in the Winter, except for a few fishermen. I think it's great fun to sail in cold weather, but it would likely be fatal to fall overboard. So, I have decided to not fall overboard!

If you can keep your head and your hands warm, the rest of you will be cosy!

Happy single-handed sailing!

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 18:12:44

On our first run south from New England, we saw frost on the ICW... I finally remembered the electric jackets... Gerbing makes electric jackets and I wired them in... Been toasry ever since.

Sten

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redviking
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Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 19:01:03

On our first run south from New England, we saw frost on the ICW... I finally remembered the electric jackets... Gerbing makes electric jackets and I wired them in... Been toasry ever since.

Sten

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/03/2013 : 11:30:59

While we're not in the PNW, our water temperature here is usually in the low to mid 50s all year round. I sail a lot during the winter and it can get into the high 30s and low 40s.

My only use for our wetsuit is to examine the bottom of the boat or snorkel in the BVIs.

I agree that the concept should be to NOT go overboard. Yes, commercial tether lines may be too long for your particular application, but there's no reason you can't make up shorter ones with appropriate webbing and the right connectors.

Stay on the boat, I don't think a wet suit will help you in those conditions if you do go over, since the real issue is getting back on the boat. In that regard, you'd have to assure a way to disengage your autopilot, for example, to give you any chance of getting back to the boat to begin with.

Good luck.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 16:30:46

FWIW, I just got back from the cruise down into the Delaware Bay. I have a lot to say about the trip, but short on time.

As to the topic of the original post, my 2 mm neoprene front-zip jacket was an excellent piece of gear. I wanted something snug and compact (minimal bulk) that would fit easily under my harness, and would provide a bit of insulation. My multi-layer clothing consisted of an UnderArmor wicking long sleeve shirt, then the neoprene jacket, then my harness, then the nylon shell from my ski jacket for wind repellency and a little more insulation, then my auto-inflate PFD over top. I left the zipper halfway down on the ski jacket so I could clip onto the D-rings.

This sufficed for sailing in the 60s with winds 10-20 kt. When temps dropped into the low 50s this morning, I added a fleece liner under the ski jacket.

When temps reached the mid-60s and the wind became calm. I stripped off the ski jacket and the black neoprene soaked up the sun's rays nicely, providing nice warmth.

My body was a bit wet under the neoprene at the end of every day, but the sweat stayed warm under the layers of insulation. I turned the neoprene jacket inside out each night to allow it to dry.

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