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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Best place to buy rigging

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Headhunter
1st Mate

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Initially Posted - 05/06/2013 : 16:21:23

I imagine this has been gone over ad naseum, but did a couple of topic searches which didn't turn up much.

Is there a list of good places to go to compare prices on sheets and halyards?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 16:40:43

Since our boats are "smallish" compared with 30s & 40s, it is likely that ends will be too short for larger boats. You could scope out several online vendors for remnants that will fit on our boats. The clearance items may include line.
You might look to climbing line outlets as well.
I happened upon a sale at a West Marine that was moving it's inventory across town. They were offering remnants on the spools for 1/2 price. I cleaned up!

Edited by - on

awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 17:48:05

Where are you located? In Seattle Fisheries Supply often has good deals on spool ends (they have a much larger selection of this than West Marine) and they currently have Samson Rope for 20% off. It's not easy to find 80+' lengths suitable for halyards, but it's easy to find lengths good for main sheets, boom vangs, etc.

This splice can save you a lot of money:
http://l-36.com/halyard_splice.php

With it you can use double braid for the non-working part of the line (what is coiled up when you sail is raised) and dyneema (Amsteel) for the working portion. The dyneema has almost no stretch and is very strong for it's weight, but hard on the hands and doesn't work well on winches and in clutches. Double braid is stretchy but easy on the hands and in winches.

So for a Catalina 25 halyard you'd get something like 40' of 5/32" dyneema (68 cents per foot) and splice that to 50' of 5/16" Samson LS (44 cents per foot). That gets you a very nice halyard for under $50. Compare that to a 90' Samson XLS Extra halyard at $1.17 per foot or $105. The spliced halyard is half the price, stronger, lighter, and has less stretch. All prices are non-account prices from Fisheries Supply.

I use this splice on halyards, reefing lines, jib sheets (though the Amsteel tail is quite short), spinnaker tack lines, and outhaul lines. I also use very small Amsteel for my topping lift. It's not as useful for something like a main sheet where you have a 4:1 or larger tackle system, though it could be done. It would probably work well for a boom vang though (since those aren't adjusted out as far as a main sheet).

Someone may come along and recommend Novatech XLE from eBay or Cajun Ropes. Based on my experience and research I'd get Samson XLS instead. It is about the same price, is nicer in the hand and a little easier to splice, and has the same stretch and strength properties. The seller on eBay used to advertise that this line was as good as XLS Extra, but it is nowhere close (XLS Extra has 1/3rd of the stretch of Samson XLS or Novatech XLE).

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 17:50:17

There's a guy on ebay that several here have referenced. Perhaps someone will post his user name.

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Headhunter
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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 18:17:52

Sorry...I am in the Charlotte, NC area and have a Catalina 25 TM. West Marine rigging is just across the border in Rock Hill, SC so I could save on shipping and used them last time (10 years ago), but am looking at what options are out there.

All info is greatly appreciated and hopefully useful for others as well.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 19:14:54

The ebay guys is probably roscoef. Here's his line:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=NovaTech+XLE&_sacat=0&_from=R40

I've replaced my halards and genoa sheets. I've been generally happy with the quality of the line, and his service was very fast (but he's only about 50 mi away from me).

I'm going to replace my mainsheet, vang, and reef lines as soon as I determine exactly what color, diameter, and length I want. The main and vang are way oversized vs. Catalina's recommendation, but the size feels real good in the hand.

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 06:45:12

That's the stuff that I recommend passing on.

It stretches more than Samson XLS, has similar breaking loads, doesn't feel as nice in the hand (the threads feel coarser) and costs about the same amount. It's too stretchy to be recommended for halyards (a halyard length of this line will stretch up to 2' in normal loads), but works okay for sheets.

No matter what his ads say that is not a low stretch line. He doesn't publish the actual specs, but you can find them here:
http://www.novabraid.com/rope/xle_performer.html

XLS is here:
http://samsonrope.com/Pages/Product.aspx?ProductID=455

XLE has 3% stretch at 10% load, XLS is 1.5%. At 20% load it is 5% vs 3%. That is a significant amount of stretch.

Edited by - awetmore on 05/07/2013 07:59:49

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 07:02:20

I got the recommendation from someone else here. Hadn't heard the complaints that you mentioned. My halyard stretches nowhere close to 2', but I doubt I pull 700 lb of tension either. I suspect that the suitability depends on whether you're racing or not.

So if I linked the wrong guy on ebay, who is the correct ebay seller that OJ mentioned?

Edited by - on

awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 07:36:14

That is the guy that is often recommended here. I'm just saying that there is much better line available for the same price. Novabraid isn't junk and should be thrown away, it just isn't worth seeking out.

He used to explicitly compare his line to XLS Extra in the ads (which is much better stuff). It's really nothing special. It might be about the best that Novabraid makes, but it is about the same quality as the lowest end double braids from Samson and NE Ropes.

700lbs of halyard tension is a lot, but 300-400lbs is not when using a winch. At 400lbs you are in the 10% of breaking strength territory. The working length of a halyard routed back to the cockpit on a Catalina 25 is about 40', so that is about 1.5' of stretch.

Edited by - awetmore on 05/07/2013 08:01:30

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 08:29:15

I don't have time or incentive to shop prices right this moment, but at the time I made my prior purchase the Novatech was about half the cost of "comparable" Sta-Set or Samson line. Perhaps I was looking at grades that weren't truly comparable.

I do remember that I ruled out some of the ultra low-stretch grades from Sta-Set and/or Samson because of comments that they were too stiff and would not easily make the tight turns around sheaves, blocks, and deck organizers of small boats like ours. I am no expert, but from what I read it looked like very low stretch had some tradeoffs like that. Maybe all that's irrelevant for 5/16" line anyway. I'll keep that in mind next time.

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 09:38:41

That's because you probably bought it more than a year ago, when the seller was mis-representing his line and claiming that it was comparable to Samson XLS Extra or NE Ropes Sta-Set X. If it was comparable to either of those then the price would be great.

I bought some around the same time, and when it arrived I did some digging to figure out what it actually is. That's when I found the real specs on Novabraid XLE and realized that it isn't very impressive line at all. I posted a thread about it here.

There is little reason on a Catalina 25 to go fancier than XLS Extra (which has about 1/3rd of the stretch of XLS for about twice the price), and plain XLS is fine in most applications like the main sheet and jib sheets. The main sheet has pretty low loads, and the jib sheets are most stressed when close hauled and they are very short (so stretch is less of a concern). I would pick low stretch lines for halyards, reefing lines, and the outhaul because all of those see significant loads and are longer.

XLS Extra goes around the masthead sheaves just fine and is what I used for halyards on both my old Catalina 25 and my new Pearson 28-2. By purchasing ends I've often gotten XLS Extra for the price of XLS.

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